Attendence issue - a bit freaked about possible loss of job

[lostforgottensoul]

was just asking about the policy.

Ah, sorry. Maybe a bit of misplaced anger there. Sadly, the policy is not accessable outside of work intranet, that said, no. It simply, if memory serves, says that you are expected to be at work and anytime you are not and there's a pattern of absensism established (which I have apparently, accidently, established a pattern or we would of never had the first coaching) then corrective action up to termination can be applied. I believe somewhere it is written to submit medical documentation but they can refuse to approve any documentation (that's in there as well) and apparently they have not approved most of my doctor's notes because if they would of, it would be way less then 16 (now 18) days. If approved, it doesn't show on that list. If approved properly anyway.

I think simply listing dates is bullshit. Void of "sick", void of "doctor's note"...void of anything but a date. It's not like I called out to go live it up. I was sick each one of those times. The time my other sup (god I miss him) approved me to go get my tags renewed, that was manager approved and not on there. As was the day my pain dr messed up my meds. These were straight call in days. And when I sat there and looked at it, it looks like a pattern. Calling in 2 to 3 days before your days off every few months. But, that said, it's not. Void of reason. The reason is I fight every sickness I have trying to make it to my days off because I have a damn great work ethic. My therapist says that a lot. Then my body says "no way" and I end up on my ass unable to work. Sicker then when I began. I guess the take away is call out when I think I need to. Don't try to push through it. But, then, there are times where its just a head cold and you can take some sudifaid and get your ass back to work. Where is that line? I'm struggling to find it now in a disabled body. But, man, to just list them all out and not list that I had a work note from a doctor or even to listen to my calls those days i was working sick. You can hear it. They won't even do that. Every single customer I spoke with Sat and Sun said "why are you not home?" Every single coworker giving me the evil eye that i was about to make them all sick. And tested positive for the flu, I probably did. It just makes me mad that I tried so hard to work while sick and push through it and now I am looking down the barrel of a likely write up. Because I have a damn good work ethic? It just makes me mad!

 

[Whirlwind]

I have a background in employee rights and dismissal.

Sick leave issues are triggered when an employee uses a certain amount of time, conveys a "pattern" or absences affect work/other staff aka annoys supervisor or cohorts complain. It boils down to your absence is annoying them and it is "enough" to start the disciplinary process or they would not approach you.

Your organization does have a policy they will adhere to. If I understand correctly you are on notice for sick leave and if your sick leave continues similarly your only recourse will be "protection" of FMLA.

I believe somewhere it is written to submit medical documentation but they can refuse to approve any documentation (that's in there as well)

It may seem vague but it is not. They have federal FMLA guidelines, internal policy and procedure for approval (I conclude as you refer to intranet so organization must be large enough). You can print from intra net and request policy documents. Do it in writing or verbally then date and jot notes down of the conversation asap.

Sounds like you are "employee at will" (non union?). I know how frustrating this can all be but they have given you a "warning shot over the bow" so I would get the policy and determine what they want from you and if for whatever reason you do not think you can meet their expectation - don't share this with them but time to formulate a plan.

At this point simply put you need to get off of their radar. Get those policies, you might be surprised at your options and the application of FMLA.

Good luck,
Whirlwind

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Sounds like you are "employee at will" (non union?).

Yes. I am not Union. And Florida is an "at will" State. Meaning they can fire you for any reason or no reason at all. Thus my concern. I am hoping they are like any other big organization and do a write up first. That's bad but it's better then being fired.

Get those policies, you might be surprised at your options and the application of FMLA.

I will be getting them as soon as I come into work this morning. I don't know how to map the computers to one of the printers as we are not at the same ones everyday and we are not allowed to work on our own PCs (we have an IT department) but I will email them to myself. My personal email. So then I can access there.

FMLA isn't real "getting the flu" type of thing. I've used it for extra breaks but it's more of a planned thing rather then an unplanned sick thing. But, even if I can figure out how to get myself a few days a month or something, that's enough (more then enough) to work with. Only question then is, what Doctor? I don't have a primary care, Dr. I'm seeing a walk in clinic everytime. I don't have a primary care and if I obtain a primary care, will they want to approve FMLA for things that happened when I was out of their care?

I was hoping to get off the radar by just not calling in for a longer period time. That got all messed up by getting sick.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Only sups and leads can print but I emailed myself the entire attendence policy. I will try to paraphrase it later but I also asked a lead and you do get a write up before termination. So, I am facing at least that but that I can handle. I was just afraid of being out right fired. Which they can do here. In Florida I mean. It's a hard State work wise. I would never get hired in at my current pay rate anywhere else. I need this job! And damn it! I'm going to fight for it!

 

[Whirlwind]

FMLA isn't real "getting the flu" type of thing.

I am not advocating abusing FMLA but FLMA can serve as an "umbrella" for intermittent use. However it is typically unpaid leave.

Any doctor can assign FMLA but they typically do want to know the patient. A psychiatrist, family doc, etc. Yes they can approve FMLA for diagnosis from other physicians and as per patient history as well. But it cannot be applied retroactively to events (only in very rare instances). Make sense?

Best approach for now but still a good idea to learn their policies and a bit of FMLA. It is an employee right even for "employee at will" and can save your job.

Best, Whirlwind

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Any doctor can assign FMLA but they typically do want to know the patient. A psychiatrist, family doc, etc. Yes they can approve FMLA for diagnosis from other physicians and as per patient history as well. But it cannot be applied retroactively to events (only in very rare instances). Make sense?

It does. Thanks.

HR lady passed me going to the bathroom. Asked if I was feeling better. Hopefully coming in with a flu mask helped. Hopefully she approved the days and then its a non-issue. Haven't had a chance to look yet.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Well, the days said "excused" by them in our arcatic time keeper that sort of keeps time behind the scenes. My sup said if HR approved the days as "excused" in said system, they wouldn't add to the dates he listed (which means they didn't excuse a hell of a lot of Dr's notes). It is not a manager approved absense though. That shows up differently in a different place. So, all of this maybe a non-issue but I thought I would still follow up with it.

I can't copy and paste as it says "confidential" on the bottom of each page. But, here is it parapharased:

Of course the points of you must call in yourself. As close to start time as possible. The point he was reading to me said this, basically.

Basically, as each employee calls out sick, the productivity is interupted and increase cost happens, no matter the reason. So, even if the absence is the type that's normally "excusable" such as being sick or having a doctor's appointment with a doctor's note, employees with poor attendence and/or tardiness without prior approval ahead of time is subject to corrective action up to and inclucing termination.

Fair enough, right? But, what is unwritten is how "poor attendence" is written. Which it's not, in this policy. No where in the policy does it spell it out. So, how my sup defines it is as a pattern. Every 3rd Friday. That's a pattern. Being ill every few months? Not so much. But, I guess we'll see. I'm not looking down the barrell at my own job. Not yet anyway. That's something. Will also ask HR about FMLA. Have no idea what Dr would fill it out. My only regular Drs are my pain dr (where it was a micicle to get one round of paperwork signed by him) and my therapist. Who will fill it out in session. But this? Probably not.

 

[joeylittle]

No where in the policy does it spell it out.

Because they want the flexibility to define it, based on the situation. I'm not saying it doesn't suck - just that it's pretty normal.

 

[Whirlwind]

So, even if the absence is the type that's normally "excusable" such as being sick or having a doctor's appointment with a doctor's note, employees with poor attendence and/or tardiness without prior approval ahead of time is subject to corrective action up to and inclucing termination.

This is standard but does not apply to FMLA approved condition. Simply put if FMLA you cannot be terminated for the absences as long as leave is in compliance with paperwork. They do have right to offer modified work but for now that is the gist of FMLA.

No where in the policy does it spell it out. So, how my sup defines it is as a pattern. Every 3rd Friday. That's a pattern. Being ill every few months? Not so much.

Honestly, that sounds reasonable especially if the "fri off" means an extended weekend as a result. That is a common "trigger" and they do not have to spell out "pattern" as it varies as per employee. Once I documented a seeeming "random" pattern and predicted the employee's absences over the coming months. I just matched them to her time share and several gambling events. It was a pattern in proper context.

Will also ask HR about FMLA. Have no idea what Dr would fill it out.

Ask HR for the paperwork but do not discuss your personal medical. Ask all of your doc's but I would read FMLA and see if you think it is valid. I don't know what caused your absences and it would not apply to random colds so to speak but would apply potentially to PTSD, chronic conditions etc.

They have started the disciplinary process so you need to understand it is usually a "3rd strike" and you're terminated w.cause. You are on their "watch list" so improve your attendance.

I bit of advice and a truth.

Best approach is to be earnest with your boss and let them know you want your job and want to and will improve attendance. Don't discuss your medical details and don't (pardon my bluntness) give them a bunch of excuses. Everything you say is documented and shared amongst management/HR. HR's role is to protect the organization and management who they also keep in line - hopefully! But HR is not your friend so do not consider them a confidant.

Good Luck

Whirlwind

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Honestly, that sounds reasonable especially if the "fri off" means an extended weekend as a result. That is a common "trigger" and they do not have to spell out "pattern" as it varies as per employee. Once I documented a seeeming "random" pattern and predicted the employee's absences over the coming months. I just matched them to her time share and several gambling events. It was a pattern in proper context.

My point is, I didn't create a pattern in this way. I was sick, tried to work while sick (which i call good work ethics and trying to have good attendence) then got sicker and couldn't possibly work. But this was also not predictable. I had many months together where I was fine (like June 2017 when I was first hired to March 2018. I didn't call out once. Which is fully ignored) then got sick a few months seperate each other. 16 days in a year is a lot to call out for me but it was a very bad health year that was not predictable even by me for something like FMLA or even manager approved absence. Which, I have also done. I have gone in, as soon as I could and told my sup and HR of the situation. Which is what you are supposed to do. I can't predict getting sick. I get it was a bad year but I really don't see a pattern like my sup does. I'd really need the dates but, for example, it would be say 3 days in March, 2 days April, 2 days in June, a day in July, 3 days in Oct, 2 in December. That sort of thing. Most of the time they bumped up against my days off but that's only because I was working sick, pushing myself to work, trying to get to my days off, until my body crashed and I literally could not. I worked with double penumonia at my last job. I am known to do that. But how is that a pattern unless you take every bit of context out of it and look at just the dates? But, not one person could predict the exact dates or even close to the dates. Not even me.

Don't discuss your medical details and don't (pardon my bluntness) give them a bunch of excuses

Too late. I don't EVER excuse. Anything. I always make the point of wanting to improve. Wanting to change behaviors. But I did run my mouth about working with double pneumonia and having pnemonia 3 times and the fact that it's easier to get and harder to treat each time. Stupid mouth. I was trying to illustrate how severe this "just the flu" was. It wasn't just the flu. It was broncitis and almost pnemonia and would of turned pnuemonia if not rested and kept my blood oxygen up. But I still ran my mouth to my sup.

That said (and already done) I have a pending meeting likely Monday. I do not plan to excuse anything. That's not me. Not me at work anyway. I do plan on asking how one goes about not getting a write up in these bad sick years sort of thing. I don't doubt it's been a bad sick year for the entire call center. Things get passed fast in that sort of enviroment. Especially when sharing desks. They have hand sanitizer everywhere but still. My sup likely won't have that answer. HR will. But I do want to state how happy I am there. How much I love my job. And how I want to succeed, which is all true. That is my sup's job. To help me along that success journey.