"Inner child" talk not helping?

[Abstract]

where I wouldn't let him go.

I am so sorry. She needs more help than anyone can give her. Stopping myself from saying something really ugly about her. I stay with hypocritical and ignorant.

 

[scout86]

I've never been a fan of the whole "parts" thing either. But, my T brings it up now and then, although he also says "it's just a metaphor".

Right this second, it seems to me it doesn't matter if you can love that "inner child", or "earlier version you", or whatever, or not. That seems like a more advanced maneuver. It also doesn't like it matters whether or not anyone else loved her. From what you've said about your mother, I'm thinking she didn't, and doesn't, love you by any normal definition of the word. Someone can deserve love and yet not get it. And they can be offered it and not realize it too, if they've never had the chance to learn that such a thing exists.

If you had a child, now, who was like the child you imagine you were, how do you think you'd feel about that child?

 

[Ronin]

Mostly the what Ifs those therapies propose (inner children, parts, what have you) ... are very different from an experience of actual parts (which do not function so one dimensionally, are more like a huge mess of people plunged together into a too tight space and often even not knowing of each other and cross taking tasks of one another, etc) that they require quite different work than imaginary and (re)imagining based therapies.

So do not worry about Then, not working. .)
Worry about the now: What do you need now, at various levels, and how do you meet those needs?

ETA: I would not worry that much about codependency, either. :)
For two reasons: It is quite usual people have needs (including relational) and try to meet them, or, do things for other people. In some corners, we call it team work :) It is not bad to give a lot into a relationship, or do it with the other in mind (in some other corners, we call that self lessness :) ). Just depends what you expect, want, and need, back, while giving... and whether you are getting it to your satisfaction.

Second reason, you are not limiting others and their choice, by making yours.
Others will do whatever they want, regardless of what you do. They are not tied to you by your attachment. They still have their choices, and their own reason about the relationship.

 

[DogwoodTree]

If you had a child, now, who was like the child you imagine you were, how do you think you'd feel about that child?

Each of my 4 kids has traits somewhat similar to me as a child. But none of them to the extent of my traits. At any rate, I do love my kids, and recognize they each deserve protection, respect, and being cherished.

I know if there were a kid in front of me who was much more like me as a child, that child would deserve those things as well. But I can't transition that attitude toward my own sense of self. Talked about this yesterday with my T, and I know it's not logical, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't apply those things to myself. I can't force myself to not feel disgust toward myself, older or younger.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Others will do whatever they want, regardless of what you do. They are not tied to you by your attachment. They still have their choices, and their own reason about the relationship.

Yes, true. One of the problems of codependency for me is that it takes away my own sense of choice for myself. If someone does something nice for me, even if it isn't something I asked for or wanted, I feel a sense of obligation back to them, as if I then have no right to say "no" back to them for anything or disagree with them on anything, and I have an obligation to express gratitude sufficiently that they feel good about having given me something (even if it's something I didn't want or ask for).

In my mind, giving has always been about benefiting the giver, not the receiver. So it stressed me out whenever someone gave something to me. And then when I'd give someone else something, I'd try to do it anonymously or act like it's no big deal (even if it was) so they wouldn't feel much sense of obligation back to me. So I rarely ask for anything because I don't want to be indebted to other people in ways I couldn't figure out how to sufficiently pay back. Of course, then people have no idea what I actually want or need. Gifts get less and less relevant to my actual needs or interests, and become more and more of a burden to try to "be grateful for" when they're things I don't want or like.

 

[scout86]

But I can't transition that attitude toward my own sense of self.

At least you can't do it yet. I honestly think this is part of "the problem" and it's worth working on. Personally.... I find it hard, and I'm not sure I actually get it at a really deep level, but, because seeing myself as somehow "less" (less worthy? less what ever) that a generic person IS illogical, I kind of decided that, by definition, I have to give myself as much of a break as I think someone else should get. I try not to get bogged down in "deserving" because that just makes it more complicated. Definitely a work in progress, but it's been weirdly helpful.

In my mind, giving has always been about benefiting the giver, not the receiver.

That's basically because that's the way you were "trained" growing up, isn't it? Seems like anything we can learn one way, we can improve upon, fine tune, and learn better. if we're motivated and aware. Even if it isn't always easy.

I've been lucky enough to run into a couple people in real life who, probably without meaning to, were really helpful where this is concerned. Why do you give a child a present? (I mean an actual, freely given, present, not a bribe.) Seems to me it's to make the child happy. That their joy can also make you happy is a lucky side effect. (I'm using a kid as an example because some adults can make this REALLY complicated.)

Once upon a time, I knew someone, really well, who eventually convinced me that he knew who I really was and loved me anyway. I was skeptical. I checked it out a bit. I don't think I could have changed his mind if I tried. (I didn't try, BTW.) I used to love giving him things, or doing things I knew he'd appreciate. Why? Because he had a great smile and it was fun to see it. Because he hadn't had many people in his life who treated him that way and it was fun to surprise him. I very much got something out of it too, but I wasn't trying to manipulate him, I was trying to give him joy. There's a difference, really there is. We actually talked about this, because he did the same thing in reverse. What we decided was that maybe this was "working at a relationship" and, if it was, it was a lot of fun. No ulterior motives. I think it's rare. At least that's my experience of it. But it's a real thing.

I think that's where co-dependency gets to be a problem. There are a lot of ulterior motives and there's a lot going on that never actually gets talked about.

 

[Abstract]

Hi Dogwood tree, it sounds like someone must have manipulated you around giving and receiving. Maybe you weren't allowed your own choices and to express your self and personality. They have become laden down with other stuff that doesn't at all have to have anything to do with them. Not arguing against what you feel and I hear what you are saying loud and clear. Sounds like your mother may have been part of the problem. Certainly relate to this type of thing being complicated as a result of dysfunctional family environments and that leaving one with complicated reactions long term.

I do love my kids, and recognize they each deserve protection, respect, and being cherished.

But you do know how to give and receive to at least some extent despite probably not having these opportunities yourself when growing up.

I can't force myself to not feel disgust toward myself, older or younger.

And this sound so very PTSD don't you think? If it was just AS stuff you are able to see the similarities with your children and wouldn't have that awful reaction of disgust specifically for you.
The trouble is trauma and abuse leaves us holding all those awful feelings and cognitions.

I have to say that for me radical acceptance was the best first step I took with the extreme self hatred and disgust I had for myself. I almost needed to just acknowledge it for what it was before it started changing. Not necessarily recommending that.

I actually do think this can change though. Like others I have had to start with the here and now before anything else can shift.

Is there anything at all that has worked for you in therapy or self help (for anything) and if so do you know what it is about it that helped?

 

[DogwoodTree]

Is there anything at all that has worked for you in therapy or self help (for anything) and if so do you know what it is about it that helped?

Sure, there are things that have helped, though not necessarily formal or typical "therapy". Acupuncture helped shift the depression to not be so heavy. Yoga helped me get my body moving and able to look at certain parts and not feel so repulsed. (I think part of that was always "seeing" my mom's body in my own body, which brought images of her sexual relationship with my step-dad, because I had way too much information on that as a kid. But yoga being something she would never engage in created a sort of "stake in the ground", as my T says, for how I'm different than her.)

Martial arts training has helped me become more proactive in how I relate to myself and others, both willing and able to physically defend myself should the need arise. Martial arts has also helped in giving me the physical, felt sense of defending myself--it's satisfying and healing to see and feel myself defend against my instructor's attacks, taking him to the floor and pinning him there; and then I have that image in my mind of having done that, instead of only having the images of having been taken advantage of.

Also, weightlifting classes help me feel strong and engaged with my body in productive ways, kayaking...floating on the water...helps me feel buoyant, and free, in that I can go places on the water instead of being confined to the shore.

Therapy has helped to challenge my thought processes and help me see things from different perspectives, especially once I gave up on it being a relational, connected kind of experience, but more of a cognitive, "think out loud" kind of experience and look for clues I might get from my T's perspective that help me make connections for myself. Alone time helps, the more I learn how to handle my own emotions--the autism makes it nearly impossible for anyone else to help me manage my emotions. Sympathy and empathy and all that just don't really help. So I was being overwhelmed with emotions that I had no clue what to do with them and no way to get help with them. And now I'm getting better at handling that. Actually, more and more it seems the emotions just don't come up anymore, or aren't relevant. Every now and then something overtakes me, but mostly I'm almost anhedonic to where what I'm feeling is either underyling anxiety about many things all at once, or just not feeling much of anything. And yet, the self-care processes I use now help me to have more energy for doing my work and other things that need doing.

So there are many things I'm doing that help me be more productive today. None of that has yet shifted my perspective on being able to communicate to my DH what I need or don't want or whatever during physical intimacy...at least, I don't think it's enough. I haven't tried yet except in my mind. And since I can't visualize in my mind doing it successfully, I'm too afraid to try for real with him. The risk is too great. If it goes badly, it could be very, very bad. So my T says we need to work on less risky areas, just being able to communicate when the stakes aren't so high. And I'm working on that...it's just very painful to me when I can't give him what he wants, regardless of the cost to me.

 

[joeylittle]

I have a post about this somewhere....too lazy to find it right now.

But to your title: I don't find the inner child concept to be helpful at all. I understand it intellectually - but for me, it just turns into a kind of 'splitting' myself that isn't useful and tends to make me more upset, not less.

Therapists can find a number of different ways to talk about how we get to a place of self-acceptance, and how we learn to take care of ourselves. Inner child is one that seems to work for a lot of people. But it not working for you is fine, and I'd suggest having an open discussion with your therapist about other ways to work. Anyway, I did that with mine, and it helped.

 

[Abstract]

So really it is being able to stay connected to yourself as a free person with a will and voice of your own when engaging in physical intimacy with your husband that is the core issue here. The caring about yourself is a possible means of potentially doing that. Can you breakdown exactly what it is that overcomes you? Self hatred is usually only one aspect of this. I do think it is often possible to do this whilst still having unresolved self hatred issues.

I can see why the AS might be an added obstacle to doing the inner child stuff from what you are describing. If the relational aspect of engaging isnt the most natural place for you then trying to imagine something that is essentially relational with an imaginary young you is going to be harder. Makes sense.

 

[Mach123]

I had to do something about this. I still do. Formally I don't really know what inner child work is but I wouldn't look at those pictures of myself without extreme revulsion over what happened and what he was involved in. I found I couldn't just leave that part out me out and I couldn't kill it because everyone dies together so, the therapist taught me radical acceptance without meaning to and I started cutting me some slack. I couldn't just hate part of me either. That is me. I'm not that now but I was and I still feel that. So IDK about this part or that part but I know I had to try and get some self worth somehow or at least quieten down the self loathing somehow. It was linked to that stuff that happened when I was a kid. I don't love him necessarily. I can't afford to hate him.

 

[DogwoodTree]

So IDK about this part or that part but I know I had to try and get some self worth somehow or at least quieten down the self loathing somehow. It was linked to that stuff that happened when I was a kid. I don't love him necessarily. I can't afford to hate him.

Yeah, I think I've mostly moved past the actively hating the child I used to be. When I think that I want to "destroy" it, it's more about wanting to leave that part behind and not let it be part of my life now or my sense of self. It's not hating so much as letting it go and being done with it. That sense of having been a child...I don't want to cherish that or protect it or even understand it any more. I want to be done with it. I don't want anything more to do with it. I want to keep growing and moving forward and not identify with any of that anymore. I don't know if that's possible--can you move forward by leaving the past behind? Or do you have to accept the past and let it continue to be a part of you?

I don't want to think about who I was. I don't want to "protect" that part of who I've been. I want to move on and become something else, something very different, something more real and healthy and aware and capable and strong.