Advice on "how to argue" with spouse?

[Hopefulphoenix]

Hi.
I love this forum and so far every question I have dared post has been met with support and help further without judgement.
My husband and I have recently decided to try again after being separated. We have been together over 10 years. Its been very hard, but then again alot of that time I have gone untreated.
(I had an undiagnosed, untreated manic episode in which I left and actually moved out)
When we were married we had alot of problems, one being him getting really angry in an argument, me getting triggered and having to beg him to stop, and him getting even more angry. He feels as if he isnt heard out.
Last night we had a big argument. I dont want to write what it was about, (even though its tempting because I still feel "right".) I ended up being super triggered and my body started freezing. I told him that it felt like he was going to hit me so he had to move away.
I tried to explain I cant control this and its my body, that of course I dont believe rationally he will hit me, but I wanted to be alone and felt I couldnt sleep in the same room as him as I felt so vigilant.
I ended up crying till 5am about it. I dont want to move out again, we have two amazing children.
He said he was so tired of having to make "special allowances", and then I just felt on shame and low self worth. But also said he doesnt want to give up.
Help?

 

[Mach123]

It's really hard. It's not all your fault though. My wife said "I'll take 50% of the blame." I was always the "sick" one but looking back at her family, I'm not so sure. The stuff you are doing will stop as you get well you have to see yourself doing it. I couldn't see my condition hooking onto situations where I felt "right" we were just talking about this yesterday. My symptoms erupt when I feel I'm right and try and argue or prove a point. I can't. It's not worth it anymore. I was so upset all the time. My reactions were always so inappropriate.
The more I leave her alone the better we are. What I mean is I don't put my symptoms on her (pick on her in the vernacular). I understand you are having bodily reactions I have them too but it's in my attraction to her. She's not my abuser or my therapist. I know intimacy is so difficult. I hope it goes well.

 

[Wendell_R]

I'm not sure what you're ready for, but there are definitely some approaches that can help.

In couples therapy, there are structured ways to communicate with your spouse. Structure can be good for both of you, because you'll know how the conversation will go, and even if your husband is angry, there will be bounds on how that will be expressed.

Active listening is also a good skill, where you echo back what your partner just said in your own words. That helps a lot for both parties to feel that they are heard. And when people feel they are heard, that reduces tension and anger.

 

[LuckiLee]

We usually take a time out for as long as it takes for both of us to calm ourselves and try again. If you don't feel safe in those moments he must let you leave the room for a short period of time. The rest is up to you though. Both parties should be able to speak their concerns eventually. Good luck!

 

[EveHarrington]

What are special allowances?

That seems like a low blow to anyone who isn’t 100% normal/typical, or dealing with any sort of illness or disorder.

Would he say this to someone in a wheelchair? They need special allowances!

 

[grit]

I felt all your answers are in the post.

First learning how to argue in relationship is oxymoron. You mean how to talk to each other respectfully while you have disagreements. If you are looking for arguments, there is no good way to have it in intimacy all the time. It will eventually erode any softness.

You said you are right about the issue last night. Even if you are, that is your problem. Your need for rightness trumps your peace in the relationship.

You also said he feels "unheard out"...that was a nugget in your post and I wonder what you do about when you feel a person whom you love is not being heard?

I can throw a tantrum in my marriage like a toddler! believe me it is ugly but hopefully I can also swallow my shame and bring up my childish ways when happy and if we even luckier use humor about our little breakdowns.

a marriage, if it is to last, must accommodate some infantile beheviours as well as mature ones. What is happening with you is added some serious mental issues and ego issues that you are not looking for how to reach out but how to win!

I do not know how to win in marriage.

 

[Justmehere]

Nonviolent communication techniques (which are more about how to work through conflict in a way that builds connection instead of tears in down than "violence") might help. They are pretty simple. It might help keep things from escalating. You both might need some support in learning how to resolve conflict well, and therapy can help, but there is a lot of self help information too out there.

 

[lovak]

Time outs are a big thing here. I had to learn to let my husband go when he needed one, and I had to learn how to take one for myself. If one if you is heated, there's no point in moving on. Take the time you need, and accept what time he needs.. Only talk when both of you are calm. And really listen to each other, don't assume anything. Talk from the 'I' perspective.
Sometimes taking a step back and writing down your thoughts and feelings makes things easier to formulate.

But the biggest tip I can give, go to a counseler, even if it's just one time!

 

[Hopefulphoenix]

Thank you all for your responses. I certainly have much food for thought. @grit respectful disagreements does sound much better than arguing.
What I was not aware of before now is that that my need to be "right" is inappropriately important. @Mach123 you are a superstar, because it IS that in me too, not my partner which is causing my painful destructive symptoms. Its like something in me goes off, my brain blurs and I forget I am not under attack, that my husband does not bid me ill will.
On the other hand he finds it very hard to accept that I need time outs, I think he does too as he has had anger problems in the past. The time outs were the "special conditions" he said initially he was tired of. My problem is that it takes me a long while after a disagreement and all those emotions being up to be calm and unreactive reagain.
@Wendell_R active listening sounds really hard!! But it may also be a key.
There has been a disagreement today..but I refused to discuss anything until I had re read this thread!

 

[NaeNae75]

The time outs were the "special conditions" he said initially he was tired of. My problem is that it takes me a long while after a disagreement and all those emotions being up to be calm and unreactive reagain.

I think on my supporter side, I've been here once or twice too. The only reason being is that things would get "tabled" but then infinitely ignored. It became an idea that the time out wasn't a time out, but a way to ignore and permanently deflect until it became a problem again. Does this ever happen with you guys? It left me feeling ignored and invalidated.

If this is something that makes sense, then maybe you can offer a special circumstance to the special circumstance....perhaps a timeline of when it will be readdressed. Or maybe that you each have like an hour or two to calm down and bring back notes or talking points or some other creative measure to deal with the disagreement.

I think one of the things I've come to learn is that creative solutions that both can co-create instead of "compromise" can put you into a win-win mindset instead of each of us has to give something up lose-lose compromise.

If this doesn't resonate with you, feel free to ignore! I wish you the best!

 

[Hopefulphoenix]

@NaeNae75 thank you so much and yes this has been known to happen.

 

[NaeNae75]

@NaeNae75 thank you so much and yes this has been known to happen.

You're very welcome! I know this shift in my own thinking has helped our communication. I'm a let's duke it out "fight" reaction kind of person with my PTSD, but he's a uh...no - I'm going to isolate into my hidey hole and lets never be confrontational "flight" type of reaction to his PTSD.

I recently figured out one or both of us had to figure out a better style of communicating and get disagreements out of our amygdala's. Once as the "fight" I realized that is what was going on, it made it easier for me to drop my frustration about it easier. I needed to accept that continuing to "battle" in the heat of the moment and letting my lizard brain argue for me wasn't serving me or my real views. So I was willing to let things settle first.

On his side, he realized that since I was willing to give up the disagreement being a fight, that I could be safe to talk to about it. He was then more willing to open up and come back to the table once he was out of his lizard brain too. So he hadn't been willing to come back to the discussion, I couldn't be as willing either.

In the end, it really does serve both people to think outside of fight/flight mode. It offers the opportunity for creative problem solving. I read the book, "Conscious Loving" by Gay and Katie Hendricks(...well, I cheated and listened to it on audible), but I received a lot of insight in how to be self focused in order to be healthier in my relationship. It was easier after that to let a lot of stuff (control) go.

Don't get me wrong, it takes practice, but it goes fairly quickly once you can get your mind wrapped around it. Previously, though, things had gotten so bad with the former paradigm that he had left. I think he didn't feel safe to try to grow because I honestly was most likely too controlling out of my own fear. Since I've begun to implement this mind shift and accepting my own responsibility, we're doing better than the entire 9 years we've been together.

I'm actually happier. Who knew taking responsibility for all the crap that happens in your own world can make you actually feel better?! Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. It's a delicate subject, for sure!