Relationship How to deal with denial?

[Deleted member 47099]

My ex has pretty major childhood trauma.

We're currently talking again and are both still heartbroken about the breakup and still love each other, but I dunno if it's ever going to work out.
Maybe we'll just get some gentle closure on things, which would be good progress too.

So yeah, he has pretty major childhood trauma.
But he's not getting therapy for it.
He's 45 and when he needs someone to talk to, he either talks to me or his cows (he lives on a farm).

I don't think that's a useful state of affairs, but it seems I don't get any say in it.

So he totally refuses to do therapy.
He's an amazingly smart guy... several uni degrees...
He's well read, he's knowledgeable and blahblahblah...
But try talking to him about psychology or psychotherapy or trauma therapy and he goes nuts.
I have no idea why... I tried to find out when we were together, why this is such a huge red flag for him.

And at the same time, he skirts around the issue.
Talks about his childhood trauma.
Talks about anxiety and depression.

But then, a fortnight later, he'll be all indignant and like "I don't have depression, don't be ridiculous!"

I mean, I know it's a thing, right?
Not feeling like you're ready to fully face up to your childhood trauma and all that it entails.
Being in denial.
Switching back and forth between acknowledging it and denying it.

It kinda drives me bonkers tho.

So in his latest email, he states plainly that he doesn't have childhood trauma.
And that he doesn't have insecurities.
(Although he used to talk about how bad his insecurities were, all the time.)
And then goes on to write an email that includes things about some bad insecureties, just worded vaguely.

What the hell is this?

Is this just denial, or is he completely looney?

During the relationship, he'd have these intense meltdowns... Nervous breakdowns, basically... That would last one or two days.

And when they were over, I'd gently ask "What was going on? You need to let me know what's going on..."

And he'd be in total denial... Basically treating me like I was "rude" to mention "the unfortunate incident"...

Like he was so in denial about the meltdowns that once they were over, they were relegated to "that doesn't exist" and I was basically "mean" for bringing it up.

And if I'd ask him stuff about it, or about his anxiety or his depression, he'd treat it like I was insulting him.
As if words like anxiety and depression are insults.

And yet, he'd always allude to those things, himself...
He'd talk about them on his terms, saying how bad they were.
But if I ever asked a question, cos I couldn't understand what was going on, it was treated like insults.

When this first started happening, I thought he was totally bonkers.

And his meltdowns are not very nice...
I know people that have meltdowns or panic attacks (myself included) where they just seem scared and miserable.
But in his meltdowns, he actually lashes out.
It's only verbal and it's not even super bad verbal lashing out.
But it's still quite intense and it goes on for hours and hours, or even a couple of days.

So when this first started happening, I was quite distraught and also quite hurt about the ways he'd be lashing out verbally.

So naturally, once he'd re-regulated, I'd be like "Uh, can we talk about what happened?"

But no, apparently we could not. Because it was some sort of huge drama and talking about it was me insulting him.

To this very day, throughout the entire relationship and throughout the entire breakup with endless discussions, he has never once been willing to explain to me wtf these meltdowns are about.

And heaven forbid, we actually give them some kind of medical/ psychological name like "panic attack" or "dysregulation" or "dissociation" or "trigger" or whatever.

Because in his logic, if there's a label, if there's a diagnosis, then that means he's "broken".

Whereas if he just uses vague synonyms like "overwhelmed" then it's fine...

So this whole thing of I have childhood trauma, except no I don't...
I have massive insecurities, except no I don't...
I have depression and anxiety, except well, no I don't...
What is this?
How do I deal with it?
How do I not let it drive me bonkers?
How do I not get angry/ upset/ frustrated by it?
Will it ever end?
Is it a trust thing?
Will he eventually, maybe, possibly trust me enough to give me at least a few words explaining this stuff outright?

Or will it always be these weird, oblique, hinting references...
Briefly mentioning things at random times...
And then woosh, back to denial?

I find this stuff super challenging.
And depending on whether we keep talking, I do plan to gently raise this issue again.
To see if I can get a bit more traction out of it now.

And cos he's still kind of saying he'd maybe like to get back together... I certainly want to make this some kind of condition re moving forward, if it ever comes to that...

Cos I think if this stuff isn't resolved, I'm going to go nuts.

Any ideas on what the heck this is?
Anyone been through it themselves?
Any advice on what it feels like from his point of view?
Any ideas as to what would be a helpful/ unhelpful approach?

 

[scout86]

Since he's opposed to therapy, I'm guessing he doesn't have an actual diagnosis. True? He could easily have problems other than, or in addition to, PTSD. I wouldn't expect anything to change unless, or until, he sees a need to make changes and then actually does something about it.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

Since he's opposed to therapy, I'm guessing he doesn't have an actual diagnosis. True? He could easily have problems other than, or in addition to, PTSD. I wouldn't expect anything to change unless, or until, he sees a need to make changes and then actually does something about it.

Yeah, I assume this is true.

For all I know, he might have done therapy once when he was younger, got a diagnosis and found the whole thing utterly harrowing?
I literally have no idea.
It's a taboo topic for him.

I know his dad had quite bad mental illness... depression and addiction... Maybe when his parents divorced, his mother used to insult his dad about it? Maybe he's seen that stuff used as a weapon?

During the breakup, which was super messy and intense, I did start wondering whether he had BPD...
It's hard to tell tho, cos a messy breakup makes us all seem pretty nuts :P

I truly don't know.

And if he was in total denial... I think I'd find that easier to understand...?
Plenty of people are... it's kind of straight forward.

But this back and forth thing?
Of I have depression/ anxiety/ childhood trauma... Oh, no I don't...

I'm not sure how to deal with it?

Should I be impressed he's not in total denial, only partial denial? :laugh:

I just don't know how to make sense of the back and forth in my own head.

 

[scout86]

I just don't know how to make sense of the back and forth in my own head.

This is just my opinion.

You don't have to make sense of it. It may NOT make sense anyway. (That's the thing about mental illnesses. Frequently the people who have them don't make sense.) All you have to do is decide what it adds to your life and how you want to deal with that. Or IF you want to deal with that. He can BE your ex. You can be polite, even friendly, but you don't HAVE to get sucked into the drama of an actual relationship, if you don't want to. He's not your job, or your responsibility, or your project, unless you choose to make him that.

 

[EveHarrington]

If you are calling your sufferer looney, or even suggesting that he is, then you are by definition not a safe person.

Please educate yourself on PTSD and trauma.

You will make zero headway with him until you stop having the idea that he is “looney”.

If you can’t let go of this looney notion, please let him go.

 

[Kubash16]

If you are calling your sufferer looney, or even suggesting that he is, then you are by definition not a safe person.

Please educate yourself on PTSD and trauma.

You will make zero headway with him until you stop having the idea that he is “looney”.

If you can’t let go of this looney notion, please let him go.

Just a quick heads up- Sophy has PTSD herself due to a highly traumatic childhood. But he reacts in a different way then she does and that is what she is trying to understand.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

Just a quick heads up- Sophy has PTSD herself due to a highly traumatic childhood. But he reacts in a different way then she does and that is what she is trying to understand.

Yah :hug:

And yah, I don't make sense either sometimes :laugh:

And yah, trying to understand how his PTSD plays out so differently than mine.

And yah, what @scout86 said is still true, regardless... I don't have to do this... It's either a choice to do it or not to do it.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

If you are calling your sufferer looney, or even suggesting that he is, then you are by definition not a safe person.

Please educate yourself on PTSD and trauma.

You will make zero headway with him until you stop having the idea that he is “looney”.

If you can’t let go of this looney notion, please let him go.

Umm... yeah.
I reserve the right to call my partner/ ex looney.
It's okay if you choose to deal with things differently tho.

 

[Orangesfrompears]

Yes, I can relate to to your observations of him denying the obvious. It’s crazy making to watch. I don’t know the answer. And probably it will keep happening. I think it’s helpful to forge some language around these episodes. If you can find a friendly way of referring to them that doesn’t make him defensive. And if he’s even slightly triggered it won’t be the right time to mention anything. A very fine balancing act of gently referring to episodes to acknowledge they happened, and at some point, if he is ready and feels safe and unlabelled then he may be open to acknowledging them too. And then there may be room for reflection. But yep, crazymaking, I think it’s super important to develop a perspective for yourself about these episodes/behaviour and when you see it happening be able to say yep, that’s happening again and this is why and probably this is what’s going to happen (cos if you can predict things then it feels less crazy and you have a sort of control over understanding what’s happening at least.) My two cents....

 

[Deleted member 47099]

Thank you @Orangesfrompears that's perfectly described and good advice :)

 

[Justmehere]

Denial is the way some people cope with things. For now, it’s working well enough he isn’t motivated to change. He’s made that really clear. He rather keep doing what he is doing because facing his stuff to him seems much worse than being in denial.

You have a little bit of denial too, thinking that you actually can change your ex. I mean, you can keep trying, but what would it take for you to accept that you can’t change him?

In al-anon, where they talk about people we love screwing up their lives with drugs and nearly dying, and sometimes actually dying, everyone has a natural urge to fix those we love. Especially when it impacts others. But it’s said over and over, that supporters have to give the other person the dignity of being able to make bad choices, and focus on how to take care of themselves when they do.

This situation where someone is resisting treatment and acceptance that there is any problem at all and yet having massive meltdowns and lashing out is kind of the same thing. Gotta give him the dignity to make a bad choice... and set boundaries to take care of you.

You’ve done all you can to advocate he change and get help. Maybe time for a new approach? Acceptance. Not of the behavior or even of him, but of the reality that he’s made his mind up and you can’t change him.

And now it’s time to take care of you.

 

[Freida]

Denial? Me? Say it's not so!
It's a fine line from denial to dissociation and sometimes I use one to prop up the other. I dissociate so I don't have to feel and if that doesn't work I go straight to denying the events ever happened. And it took me 3 years and 2 therapists to realize that's what I was doing. And I was horrible to T1 when she first tried to tell me I had ptsd. I think I said something along the lines of "What the hell. I've never had anything happen in my life that was that bad."

Hell I'm there right now. I"m dissociated over losing my mom, so I've shoved all the trauma crap behind a wall and denying that A -it happened or B- ya it happened but no big deal.

Denial was how I kept putting one foot in front of the other - and looking back I realize how nuts that was making the people around me. THEY could see it, but I had super blinders on. It took getting horribly suicidal before I would admit that I might possibly, maybe, in an alternative universe, have a problem.

As to how to deal with/help him? I don't think you can until he admits there is a problem. I know that's how it was for me at least.

I reserve the right to call my partner/ ex looney.

I got in so much trouble the last time I went to see my brother while he was inpatient because I always refer to him as The Great Whackadoodle -- both about him and to him. This time a nurse came stomping out and said "Ms Freida we demand respect in this place and we do not tolorate those kind of names." I looked at her and said -- "ive been calling him this for 35 years -- chances are high it will continue." He busted up laughing and she was NOT happy :laugh: