Faith-Based Therapy?

[Tinyflame]

I found these 2 videos accidentally, if the topic of religion isn't offensive I wonder what anyone thinks of the following below, because I'm interested just simply more in effectiveness in mastering trauma and ptsd? The interviewer is an Internal Specialist (MD) and Psychiatrist; the guy interviewed (John Murtha) is a Vietnam Vet who was a Medic in Thailand and now does missionary work in Thailand. The treatment approach in this case is premised on the basis solutions are already spelled out in the Bible, if we both look closely and read carefully, and commit to an 'active' relationship, and it is based on self-compassion, (again from the Bible but heavily influenced by the work of Kristin Neff), as well as the power or necessity of reconnecting and supporting one another inter-relationally, that no one heals in isolation. And therefore I imagine necessitates facing (also) attachment issues (and obviously avoidance).

As a caveat, just to add, apparently it was a devout priest who coined the Big Bang Theory, but synonymous with the existence of
God. Some arguments say, were there no God, everything is random therefore, and therefore we impact nothing, nor have free will/ choice, as our actions and thoughts would not be our own. Nor would there be a sense of right or wrong. So I think it both accepts the Big Bang Theory, and the existence of God as being quite compatible.

But even more specifically, there is an adhd researcher (Dobson) who says a good description (I think that holds for ptsd, too) of reading and not 'digesting' text is like swallowing but not tasting the words (the Bible or otherwise). That there is no 'revelation' (again, not the Bible specifically but within any context of any communication or learning, and healing as defined as transformation) without being able to understand 'how does this translate' practically? And here, they say it is within relationships/ overcoming. Well, both a relationship to someone other than us- God (internal relationship always with us, and has specified 'what' to do and how to do it) and people (trust); practical inter-related discovery (others sharing their understanding/ overcoming/ wisdom, their example and input); inter-relatedness/ being part of a community (addressing attachment and avoidance).

Any thoughts would be welcome?, thank you!

ETA these also resonated with me:

 

[Wendell_R]

My trauma therapist was a minister before becoming a therapist. We've talked about God, and it's been really helpful. Ideas like God's grace and forgiveness and compassion; of being imperfect and fully loved; of forming right relations with God, others, and ourselves; of accepting God's love even if I feel unworthy. Another thing that has been really useful is to think of spirituality as filling my day--not just in times of prayer or church attendance.

For me, though, religion is an incomplete answer. There has been so much learned about treating trauma. It makes sense to me to combine that with other healing traditions that we have. I worry that people will fall into a trap that if they can't get better by praying or some other religious activity, they will feel even worse.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thanks @Wendell_R , and I agree. I actually forgot I posted this.

I think this is the part I probably explained poorly and is misconstrued:

There has been so much learned about treating trauma. It makes sense to me to combine that with other healing traditions that we have. I worry that people will fall into a trap that if they can't get better by praying or some other religious activity, they will feel even worse.

^^ I agree. I'm not meaning or inferring 'pray and it all gets better', and avoid every ground-breaking (or otherwise) discovery or treatment, I think they mean the opposite: that the words (in the Bible) explain the route, and techniques and practical applications one needs to be led too. Like somewhere I remember reading, ~'the well don't need a physician, the sick do'. (aka Not, 'don't go to a physician, just pray'). And, the 'cures for all diseases lie in the plants'- well much of our modern medicine comes from plants, eg- Digitalis etc. And Linus Pauling had the same opinion, particularly in terms of prevention, but he said ~'peas and carrots can't be patented' (and he contributed to finding the info that eventually led to the discovery of DNA's Double Helix) . And I always think of the, `(you're healed) take up your mat and go' (which to me is like, move to the next stage, of living. But for someone else, maybe they would be led to some different understanding?).

The difficulty comes from, 'what do the words mean?' - really mean? As in, with more thought, what do they recommend? And it's never stop living, or magical thinking. (I don't see faith as magical thinking, or barring responsibility or work. )

It reminds me of the 12 steps, which I did years ago; the 1st time it took a few days, the 2nd time a few weeks; the 3rd over maybe 2 years.

Just a new way of looking at it, I guess.

Thank you. :hug:

 

[whiteraven]

My two cents. (I didn't watch the video; God talk is triggering) My therapist is a Zen priest and a monk. The Buddhist stuff is not all we discuss (in fact, very little at the moment), but for me, this is what gets me through my day and what keeps me from killing myself. He has written a number of books on various therapies and teaches all around the world; he just happens to have the ability to also address the spiritual side of things which, for me, is critical.

Not everyone wants to include spirituality in their trauma work, but I wouldn't be here if we hadn't.

 

[HealingInProcess]

My two cents. (I didn't watch the video; God talk is triggering) My therapist is a Zen priest and a monk. The Buddhist stuff is not all we discuss (in fact, very little at the moment), but for me, this is what gets me through my day and what keeps me from killing myself. He has written a number of books on various therapies and teaches all around the world; he just happens to have the ability to also address the spiritual side of things which, for me, is critical.

Not everyone wants to include spirituality in their trauma work, but I wouldn't be here if we hadn't.

I definitely include my Christianity in my self work. God always loves us and that is reassuring for me. I have a book on Christianity and trauma that talks about the book of Jeremiah in the context of trauma. So much of the old testament is about suffering and it contextualizes my experience.

 

[Renestel]

Ive been in therapy in and out so many years of my life...some of it was christianity based (my mom’s push) then Buddhist based with meditation, and then with zero religion/practice what so ever. I haven’t been to therapy in a year because the zero based has gone so well. In my experience, I feel when you literally strip away everything and it’s just you and your trauma and your past, the work and the healing that comes is so much more empowering. Like you said, I feel like when praying or meditating are required for me to remain happy and not have panic attacks, I feel like its a religious drug prescription that will leave me dissatisfied sometimes and feeling helpless. When its just A+B=C, I finally was able to stop the panic attacks myself by talking myself out of the spiral and it was such a huge feeling. I stopped being my self saboteur. And it was an amazing feeling that I didnt need to do something or feel I needed a god/church/mat to do it. Everyone is absolutely entitled to their own personal choice. This is just my experience from having done many of them.

 

[Tinyflame]

for me, this is what gets me through my day and what keeps me from killing myself

Me as well.

he just happens to have the ability to also address the spiritual side of things which, for me, is critical.

Not everyone wants to include spirituality in their trauma work, but I wouldn't be here if we hadn't.

Yes. I've tried with it, with it on my own, and without it.

when praying or meditating are required for me to remain happy and not have panic attacks, I feel like its a religious drug prescription that will leave me dissatisfied sometimes and feeling helpless

I'm glad you've found what is useful for you @Renestel . :hug:

Well I think the idea is not about control or helplessness, rather guidance and wisdom, situationally and person-specific, along with faith, humility, peace of mind and joy. And meaning. And even though faith or belief in a HP and a meaning within life can be consoling, I think the video was referring to more than that sense of trust and consolation, or rather the seeds and reasons for that trust and consolation. Specifically, how to attain & maintain that sense of calm, yes. But a map, with directions for healing and living, as it were, for each person specifically (what speaks to you) and generally (help in understanding what is being said), for lack of any words atm. (For example, unrelated, I learned because women and children had no rights, many things said contextually meant much more than we'd take them, and in a different way. It was actually the first example of women being treated as equals, and having value.)

But I just know this: it came to me shortly after posting, I'm not sure how to employ such a thing, or where to begin? But wish I could. And then- lo and behold- came across the exact source I needed, without expecting to, (and at no $ cost, either)! And, I was waiting at a bus stop this morning, and looked down at something shiny on the ground (thought it was a dime), and there was a Miraculous medal (Virgin Mary). (And ETA I thought this morning- and I never think this- first time in 2 1/2 months, and actually ever-, but was feeling down and no nicotine or coffee :laugh: , how I loaned a medal I had of the Virgin Mary with baby 2 1/2 months ago but I can't bring myself to ask for it back- wish I could but I think maybe they need it more, and thought don't be so sour (of myself) ).

So, Idk, I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried. I've battled this 36 years of ways, and I think they're on to something. I hope so, and 'feel' so (for me).

Hugs to all, every path should be different, I think, so everyone comes to where they need to be, when they need to be, and how they need to be (to reach everyone), and unique to their personality and experiences. (My guess/ HO). For me, I don't see 'God' as 'out there' or 'removed', but quite intimately connected, involved and concerned with the smallest (& biggest things). Including bugs, the environment, connection, sense of humour, etc. , etc.

ETA- but I am so thankful I found/ (had dropped in my lap!!) what I did! And has audio, which originally (years ago) I thought I'd hate/ would be n/g, because of my memory problems, but is way better than trying to read due to my comprehension/ memory/ tiredness/ business problems! :) I am very thankful, and dare I say 'hopeful' ? ! :) Part of the first & only clip I watched so far was talking about shame and guilt (useful for me). And also how we are used to asking, not realizing 'God' wants to give.

business

Oop, 'busy-ness' :)
Have no words today. :rolleyes:

 

[HealingInProcess]

Ive been in therapy in and out so many years of my life...some of it was christianity based (my mom’s push) then Buddhist based with meditation, and then with zero religion/practice what so ever. I haven’t been to therapy in a year because the zero based has gone so well. In my experience, I feel when you literally strip away everything and it’s just you and your trauma and your past, the work and the healing that comes is so much more empowering. Like you said, I feel like when praying or meditating are required for me to remain happy and not have panic attacks, I feel like its a religious drug prescription that will leave me dissatisfied sometimes and feeling helpless. When its just A+B=C, I finally was able to stop the panic attacks myself by talking myself out of the spiral and it was such a huge feeling. I stopped being my self saboteur. And it was an amazing feeling that I didnt need to do something or feel I needed a god/church/mat to do it. Everyone is absolutely entitled to their own personal choice. This is just my experience from having done many of them.

Renestel I very much relate to what you are saying about prayer at times being a prescription and I have not found results when I didn't do the self work needes to actually know what I needed to pray about. I can't just say Jesus help me if I don't know what I need help with. Although sometimes I do feel a sense of assurance which is great.

God provides therapists and other tools to help us with our healing. I at times struggle to see where Jesus fits in with my trauma but my prayers have helped to bring stability to my self work and provide a substitute relationship through Jesus and the Virgin Mary for my lacking family.

There is more I could say but I know that religion as a prescription can at times be a way of papering over the problem and then someone who has no idea what they're talking about says "I guess you didn't pray hard enough" or "did you fast?" That's on people though IMO and,not God. Job is a perfect example of our ignorance of and the mystery of suffering.

I'm glad things are going well for you.

 

[Renestel]

Healing in progress and others,
again hope I'm not sounding like I'm mad hating on your choices. I just through my life's travel have seen how much doing something through the church where people are saying this is the way to do this whether it be wisdom or their own experience- It's so amazing to have your own. One that that you write the pages with wet paint.

 

[ladee]

Very excited for you @Junebug, that these beautiful assurances have fallen in your lap. And the finding of the medal. I know. I've had thousands of such experiences in my life. And very grateful for them.

I don't do 'religion'. But I do have a loving, caring and forgiving energy in my life that I simply call God. That's for me. No one else. I don't judge those that don't believe in something else. I can only speak from my own experiences.

There have been too many 'coincidences' in my life at times I needed help, direction, guidance, a soft place to land, that it was hard for me to ignore or rationalize how things came together.

I would not be alive, much less thriving, without this power in my life. I believe that this 'power' works thru others. I haven't had 'visions' or earth-shattering awareness fall into my world. And thru each experience, I have come out the other side more aware, more self-forgiving, more kind and compassionate not only to myself but others. I feel I'm too selfish to have come up with much of these experiences so something is working in my life.

Nature is my 'church' for lack of a better term.

I am happy for you Junebug. I know it has been a long search for you. If it's helping you, then it's there for those reasons. Doesn't matter what others think or believe. That is how I approach my own spiritual experience. I don't need anyone to approve of my journey. Or how I travel it and with who or what.

Going to go back now and listen to what you shared.
Hugs to you Junebug.

ETA: I especially like the second video. That one resonates more with my life journey. Thank you for sharing these thoughtful videos. Hugs to you!

 

[Renestel]

@ladee-
" nature is my church"
I almost cried when I read that. I said that twice just today. She is the most beautiful mother and teacher of all in my option.

 

[HealingInProcess]

Healing in progress and others,
again hope I'm not sounding like I'm mad hating on your choices. I just through my life's travel have seen how much doing something through the church where people are saying this is the way to do this whether it be wisdom or their own experience- It's so amazing to have your own. One that that you write the pages with wet paint.

No worries I don't feel criticized at all.