Does anyone find that the mindfulness techniques worsens their PTSD symptoms?

[Teasel]

A way to be more present with being too focused on self :)

 

[Ronin]

I like martial arts, or swimming, or hell, anything moving, mindfulness.

Sit still I can do only with fires / lights / something shiny like that, involved. So campfire? Shrines? Some bonfires? Cool.

Sit still in a building or similar closed up space? No.
Sit still, while focusing on breathing even? Hell no.
I focus on breathing when it isnt working right. I dont need a reminder of that, & having to focus on it. & Doing it on command is totally a no. I better trust others with my life to listen to them on that... which random Western teachers just dont rate.

 

[hithere]

@Friday thanks you explained my experience pretty well. That is so interesting to see it written out like that. Though I was diagnosed a long time ago as ADHD, a doctor gave me his opinion that he didn't think it was ADHD, but what I learned to do to deal with a chaotic and dangerous envirnoment while having to go to a school where children sit at desks quietly (oh my gosh that is crazy to make kids sit at desk. haha!) Who knows? But you really explained that so well. Playing golf for me is mindful in many ways because there is so much to pay attention to and to be "aware" of concerning my body, time and space.

 

[ms spock]

Yes and it can be dangerous. I went to do the 8 MBSR course and I had struggled with suicidal ideation all my life since I was a small child. Doing that Mindfulness course meant I actually started making suicide attempts and ended up in casualty. I tried to kill myself a stack of times. I have had to come at it sideways.

Kristin Neff's Self Compassion website is good. Tips for practice and the Self Compassion Break might be useful for you.

 

[ms spock]

Hi all. I don’t know if it’s just with me, but I find that whenever I try to practice the mindfulness and meditation techniques, I only feel worse. I can never complete it because of that. If I’m doing it just to practice it, I begin to feel physically sick, with nausea, dry heaving, chest heaviness, and start to feel sleepy or zoned out, like I’m going to dissociate soon. If I’m doing it to get grounded because I’m having a panic attack or flashback or about to have it, then it just makes me feel even worse. I find that it’s not only no help for me, but it actually worsens my symptoms. I end up feeling more like the abuse is happening.

I totally get this.

I don’t know if I’m just weird though or not doing it right or something because everyone seems to believe that it works and it makes you feel better. My psychiatrist and all the Ts I have and my current T keep suggesting it, and asking if I’ve done it, or if I’m still doing it. They constantly remind me to do it. When I tell them that I tried it but it made me feel worse so I stopped, they all think that I’m either lying about having done it, or not doing it right, and that I don’t really want to get better. Now I just tell them I do it, even though I know I don’t, but I just can’t bother with having that whole conversation of why I’m here in therapy all over again.

There's a lot of unskilled folks trying to push it though a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists don't do it themselves, so unless you have done it then you have no experiential reference.

In my opinion it's really dangerous and it actually literally almost cost me my life.

I haven't done much Mindfulness for about two years but I did do it daily for a number of years, and I had to find my own way to make it work for me. I was really disciplined until my psychiatrist made fun of me for it taking an hour and I totally shut down and haven't done it for two years.

So golf is awesome.

I have a new T again now, and she asked me if I knew anything about mindfulness. I told her yes so she asked if I practiced it. I told her the truth that I didn’t just to see what would happen. She asked me why and I told her it made me feel worse. And then she asked me to describe what I would feel, and I did. None of my or previous Ts ever asked me to do that so I never knew that was something to talk about, and I’m not trying to say they aren’t good or anything. My current T said that the reason it makes me feel worse and even more “involved” in the past may be related to how I coped while it was happening. I’m not too sure what she meant though because she ended the session and I don’t see her for another two weeks because she’s away.

But she didn't just say do it despite how it makes you feel? She actually talked about how to more like process what is happening.

So I was just wondering if anyone had similar reactions when practicing mindfulness, and if so, do you know why? Sorry for the long post, I don’t know why but I felt I had to explain the whole thing before I could ask this. Thanks.

I totally get it and for some people their Mindfulness is swimming, walking, painting, drawing etc

Also the way Mindfulness is practised in the West is very different from meditation in the East - they doing standing, lying and movement based practices, none are inherently less than than the prized sitting position which comes from a place of rigidity and actually avoiding the Mindfulness experiences.

 

[ms spock]

Most of this mindfulness theory is a Westernized version of Vipassana, a practice found within Theravada Buddhism. It emphasizes three things that I think are difficult for PTSDers: breathing, eyes closed meditation and the body scan. All of this can lead you into a dysphoric trance rather than awareness. I also found it unbearable and triggering when I first began to meditate.

Yes it can be quite dangerous for someone with PTSD or unprocessed Complex Trauma.

On the other hand, Zen Buddhism comes from the Mahayana tradition. This type of meditation is done with the eyes open where one stares at a fixed point and focuses completely on everything around you that your senses can detect: traffic sounds outside, the pain in your knee, the smell of fish from the apartment next door. There are no requirements to breathe or scan or chant. You just sit.

Yes and you don't even have to sit you can lie down, stand up or walk or move. It's really ridiculous how the West has turned this in to an extreme adventure sport that it doesn't need to be.

 

[Deanna]

I went to a different p-doc before I was diagnosed and he kept talking about mindfulness and how he incorporated to his own life. It sounds like it works for a part of the population anyway. I had a very hard time following him. He said he didn't look at the weather or news anymore. Whatever he said after that, was anyones guess, though. I never went back to him.

 

[grit]

I think it is great courage and self awareness to realize what the mainstream buzzes about is not for you and not only acknowledge in you but also express it verbally to your therapist. I think that is really great.

From my experience and before I went to therapy, the only thing that saved me and probably masked my complex trauma was mindfulness and meditation. Now, I know why it helped me in therapy. I needed to learn the gap between my reaction to a situation and my processing in higher brain area but even more significantly, I was able to face my internal emptiness alone in my own safe space and see for what it was. Mindfulness and meditation helped me seriously avoid having impulsiveness part that is very common in complex trauma.

We are all impacted different in trauma situation, and it could be simply that whatever the area of the brain that is responsible for meditation or mindfulness is impacted and you need another way of accessing that like focusing of creating art etc until you are ready. It is not easy to focus on emptiness when experiencing emptiness...speaking from my own experience. it is quite maddening in my book.

 

[EveHarrington]

I have sensory issues, so in essence, some mindfulness exercises are asking me to feel MORE? Fck that noise, it most definitely doesn’t help, it just causes more damage. I already feel too much as it is. My symptom set doesn’t mesh well with much of mindfulness (aside from deep breathing). I’m already hyper aware of everything I see, smell, taste, touch, hear.

If you’re out of touch with your senses, then go for it as maybe it will help you.

 

[susannahsays]

I find that it’s not only no help for me, but it actually worsens my symptoms. I end up feeling more like the abuse is happening.

Yes, I feel just the same and I have told the therapist so. I don't think she understood but she didn't try to force me to do anything. The topic actually came up because I was on a tirade about a yoga class I was taking for PE credit and threw mindfulness in there - partially because it was relevant but also because I knew she would bite and it seemed like we might as well establish that I find mindfulness worse than useless.

Anyway, I think she thought I just didn't understand what mindfulness is.

 

[flowerapple]

Anyway, I think she thought I just didn't understand what mindfulness is.

That's normally be what I would hear too from them. Plus, I'm a psych major and in almost every class mindfulness would be brought up. They would just go on and on about the wonders of it. So, I honestly was thinking that it was my fault that it wasn't working, until my current T said she understood what I meant. Coincidentally, in one of my psych class later that day, the prof brought up mindfulness, but to say that it's overrated, and it's not something that works for the whole population.

 

[Teasel]

In my first session of ACT group this week, the facilitator had everyone do mindfulness of breathing and body scan. Most people didn't like it and said so.

And in my first session of equine therapy today, the facilitator did the same. I told her I don't get on with that and that I would do something different. (I listened to sounds instead).

Tis funny / frustrating when someone can't or won't hear that this doesn't work for all eh.