The seeming fashion for labelling people toxic, narcissistic etc

[grit]

I, have to say and of course I am open to change and evolve that, would love to work with NPD and sociopath like prison society because I am a product of those people.
Do I feel they can heal? I do not know but I am open to contribute. I feel all humans have same traits we just different in degrees. Emphaty which is thrown around often as the measurements of mental health in some aspects...but we rather spend thousands of dollars on our lovely dogs when we know there are children dying of starvation and being abused every day. Empathy is the first area, IMHO, that gets damaged for an abused child. You can't learn empathy from being abused by the same person who supposed to mirror you to teach.
The lack of empathy does not mean automatically that person is NPD or sociopath. People are not computers and binary.
People compensate many ways if what they do not have, learned, or developed as a healthier child. Survival is a great teacher.

Just my two cents.

 

[Rani G2]

The most painful thing is the fact that I (And yes, when I say I, it sounds all so selfcentred again, what about the people I hurt? And yes, I Must take responsibility, reflect and understand) spent so many years building up a persona that is charming, seemingly smart, tough and very selfabsorbed to deceive others, because the fear that one Day I will be confronted with my own inferiority, vulnerability and fragility was extremely frightening. Today (And yes, I am walking on dangerous territory here) I would say that I scanned for people (Example workplace) Who came across weak (And they were definitely NEVER ever weak, and I know this today)I was, I felt this extreme inferiority that my only way to handle it was to play games, be charming and humorous. This is not about wanting anyone’s compassion or wanting to make my behaviors sound harmless or understandable. I need to take responsibility also.

 

[blackemerald1]

one Day I will be confronted with my own inferiority, vulnerability and fragility was extremely frightening.

^This is yet another example of how we are the same. I too am so frightened of my vulnerability being exposed. I'm sure if we did a head count we'd not be alone.

I don't want to sound overly simplistic here @PURUSHA because I understand how complex your illness is. But survival by any other name?

 

[mylunareclipse]

Thanks for sharing your experience @PURUSHA. I got the sense that that person that hurt me was extremely hurt in his own family. He was afraid and that’s why he hurt me. Really what I wanted to tell him was that I saw him and liked him all the same and he didn’t have to hide. But this was my “savior” complex perhaps, hence better to remove my situation to stop getting hurt. My hope would be that he gets help and deals with what hurt him.
It’s amazing that you were able to work through your issues and come on the other side. I hope at some point life with give you and the other people a chance to make amends. I am sure the other people would be happy to.

 

[Mee]

@grit I think spending priorities are interesting and can be measures of not of empathy or compassion but of rationality that most people fail at? For example- even within animal welfare, most money goes on charitable spending for domestic species. There is a wonderful ted talk that covers this more eloquently than I can, but if money were spent on farm animals in purchasing chooses ( choosing ethically farmed food products, and not things containing stuff like palm all) FAR more animals could be impacted for a fraction of the money. It’s a confusing issue for many because it crosses into economics and spending power and how buying meat can actually be a welfare act. ( if we all bought non factory farmed meat and less of it , factory farming would cease)
Also, We many spend huge amounts more than ‘necessary ‘ on their children / themselves while other children starve or are homeless. I know I make purchases beyond survival purchases. What makes it moral spending/ not is highly variable. Perhaps buying expensive pet items keeps those people making those items employed, solvent, economically active, and also able to contribute to world economy.

Hugely complicated and I am not sure what the ultimate answer is. I just try and buy LESS but better.

 

[Mee]

^This is yet another example of how we are the same. I too am so frightened of my vulnerability being exposed. I'm sure if we did a head count we'd not be alone.

I don't want to sound overly simplistic here @PURUSHA because I understand how complex your illness is. But survival by any other name?

Vulnerability is terrifying. It’s made ‘marks’ of us. I am not too afraid of admitting I am vulnerable but I certainly don’t like to show precision over where, and that would be over sharing often, wouldn’t it? .

 

[Rani G2]

You can't learn empathy from being abused by the same person who supposed to mirror you to teach.

@grit yes.
There is a victim-perpetrator dynamic going, when I witnessed one caregiver in constant power (Perpetrator) and the other in Submission. Internalizing the perpetrator I believed that having power was also about submitting others and standing as the winner. This sounds overly dramatic, but there was a Part in me who Never ever wanted to be the victim again.
Having very less compassion is also about making the other an object. It takes the humanness of the other and of my own self. When I felt fear, nervousness no one could ever see it this meant I cut off my emotions and to say it very bluntly I was somewhat of a zombie.

 

[mylunareclipse]

Hi @PURUSHA
May I ask you a question? Please feel free to not answer if it might stress you/trigger you.
Do you think that the people that you might have potentially hurt have a right to label what happened to them as being targeted/ hurt by someone withh NPD/NPD traits. The things is they will never know your potential diagnosis, but do you think they should:have the right to label what happened to them as that? Perhaps if they entered therapy they were able to label what happened to them as that with the help of the therapist, and it helped them heal/understand what happened to them. What do you think? Not trying to create controversy, just curious.

 

[Rani G2]

Hi @PURUSHA
May I ask you a question? Please feel free to not answer if it might stress you/trigger you.

Yes, I will try @wishforescape
I Do believe they have every right to label it as they wish to.


Thanks

 

[mylunareclipse]

Thanks for your answer @PURUSHA
You have brought more healing to me.
Hope this thread wasn’t too hurtful to you & be gentle with yourself.

 

[Rani G2]

Not trying to create controversy, just curious.

@wishforescape yes that for sure. That’s why I mentioned dangerous territory, the moment I say, my behaviors were my coping/defensive mechanisms due to childhood experiences(The reducing it to childhood, explainations and the trying to explain if this makes sense?) the question of choice/personal responsibility arises as well,

Hope this thread wasn’t too hurtful to you & be gentle with yourself.

Thank you.
Not hurtful (Not sure if...? maybe) but the moment I mentioned NPD to someone, the person left, without trying to get to know me. Maybe that is hurtful, but I cannot blame, I don’t know what her experiences were. Everytime I meet people I have this obsessive analyzing of „Am I feeling for this person, am I judging? Am I reacting correctly with what is meant as compassion?

Take care @wishforescape

 

[TruthSeeker]

Thanks @TruthSeeker it took me a very long time to get there, usually when the whole construct collapses you take action. There are two or three people to whom I own an apology and I do feel and I mean feel sorry.

That is encouraging that you feel that way, and while it sucks to be on the feeling end in your shoes....with the guilt/shame from whatever harm you believe you did, once you try to make amends......maybe that may change the direction of the relationships...maybe it won't, but your effort to own your stuff with an apology will help you to put it away......and heal and move forward. I've had to make amends, and it is always a hard thing to do, but I feel better afterwards.

Thanks for sharing, it gives me hope about someone else I love very dearly....my daughter.....