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Death of the "ego" ?

Ecdysis

MyPTSD Pro
In my mid 40s, I'm going through the darkest, most difficult time of my life. Walking through the dark wood, the valley of the shadow of death.

I'm reading two books about the transition from the first half of life to the second half of life, both have a depth psychology (Jungian psychology) approach. Also reading one of Pema Chödrön's books.

  • Through the Dark Wood- Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life - by James Hollis

  • Falling Upward - A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life - by Richard Rohr

  • When things fall apart - Pema Chödrön

I feel like I'm on some strange spiritual journey which is pushing me to my absolute extremes, not just pushing me to my boundaries, but breaking them all and leaving them smashed in pieces.

I feel like I'm a phoenix who is burning alive and will turn into ashes and may turn into something new, but that feels so far away. All that's present right now is the burning and the dying.

I don't know how to describe it other than it feels like my "ego" is dying.

I've been into Buddhism long enough to know that's a good thing... that's the aim... for your ego to die...

But f*ck it feels awful... It's the f*cking worst... It feels like being tormented by all your inner demons... It feels like what a cold turkey withdrawal from heroin must feel like....

Ugh... it feels like if I survive this... if I have the courage to go through all the stages of it, without flinching, avoiding, bypassing it... then it will be a deeply healing spiritual journey... I just honestly dunno if I've got it in me...

Has anyone here on this forum experienced something like the death of the ego during/ after trauma, for example?
 
experienced something like the death of the ego

During my 5g heroic dose of PE psilocybin, yup. I came "back to Earth" with the realization that in the grand scheme of things, the grand scheme of things doesn't matter. Certainly my experiences on the universal scale are minuscule. We create our own meaning. We choose what is valuable and important to us. But at the end of the day, nothing really matters, so pick things that make you happy and don't hurt other people.
 
What do you define as ego?
There's probably better explanations of this online, but I'll try my layperson definition of it... Basically the ego is what gives you your sense of identity and it's what gives you your sense of will and wants. Think of a three year old kid... they're TOTALLY discovering their ego... It's all "I want this!" and "No! I refuse to do that!". It's what drives us through life in the first half of life, basically. It's our goals, our aims. It's what we'd identify as - North American white woman who votes Democrat, has 2 kids, is divorced and works as a librarian. It's who we lazily think of as "who we are". In Buddhism and other religions too, the aim is to overcome this relatively "shallow" sense of self... to overcome our cravings and our "3 year old" wants and opinions and ideas.

ETA: Oh, and also, it's the ego's feelings that are hurt when we are insulted by someone. And it's the ego that gets upset when our plans are thwarted and when our sense of control takes a beating.




ETA: I think the reason that I've found this ego-death journey so terrifying is that during childhood trauma and abuse, the "ego" takes so many blows. Our sense of self is damaged, our sense of control is often taken from us, the freedom to be who we are, as we are is not available, all of the healthy aspects of "ego" are inaccessible to kids going through prolonged trauma and abuse. So, a large part of my trauma therapy journey has been about reclaiming that healthy sense of ego, of fostering it, of strengthening it. So I've historically equated "absence of ego" with my trauma years and "presence of ego" with my healing years. So, to be catapulted into this journey of ego-death has made me feel like I was "regressing" back into a trauma state, which is why I think I fought it tooth and nail...
 
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Basically the ego is what gives you your sense of identity and it's what gives you your sense of will and wants.
Using this definition?

Yep. Absolutely lost all sense of identity during certain parts of my trauma history, and still do under certain kinds of stress.

ETA: I think the reason that I've found this ego-death journey so terrifying is that during childhood trauma and abuse, the "ego" takes so many blows. Our sense of self is damaged, our sense of control is often taken from us, the freedom to be who we are, as we are is not available, all of the healthy aspects of "ego" are inaccessible to kids going through prolonged trauma and abuse.
No childhood trauma for me, though.

In Buddhism and other religions too, the aim is to overcome this relatively "shallow" sense of self... to overcome our cravings and our "3 year old" wants and opinions and ideas.
LOL. I spent much of my childhood in Buddhist countries, many of my classes actually taught by monks, as well as one of my schools run by them. Ironically, or not? What was taught to us as children was very different from what I run into here, in the west.

For example? During meditation, several of us were plucked out of the class and sent to go climb the temple, jumping across rafters, sliding down supports, etc. As an adult I can look back and understand what they meant that, for some, peace of mind is found through movement of the body. As I can understand, that for me; when my mind is moving, my body is still, but when my body is moving, my mind is still. And the only time I am truly connected with …everything… is when ALL of me is hurtling through the air, ground, sea, gravity, etc. The majority sat absolutely still, in order to achieve peace of mind, and connectedness with all that is/was/will be. But? In addition to those of us who have to challenge the laws of physics to be truly connected / truly at peace? Some were sent to walk paths, or count things, order things, etc. (in the west we can veeeeeery easily break those groups down by disorder; ADHD, OCD, Autism Spectrum, etc. But in the East? We were judged differently / taught differently. That each person’s peace? Was as individual as they were. And that to find your own peace, you have to know yourself, rather than attempting to be anyone else. To be fair, most of those Buddhist monks were also Shinto, who see that everything has a spirit, and each spirit deserves its own honor and recognition. Both Zen Buddhism & most flavors of Indian Buddhism (as well as several other variations across other cultures) take radically different tacks.
 
Hi @Ecdysis I didn't read all the info yet, but just in layman's terms (and I'm a bit familiar with Richard Rohr, but this is more from what I've learned directly from another), I thought the 'ego' was, in a sense, our 'false' or 'projected' self? So yes, it may be what we want (or frequently think we need), but it's really a definition of ourselves that we somewhat hide behind or even kid ourselves. Versus a 'true' self, a transparent, balanced view of both ourselves and others.

So for example, if we say our ego is bruised, we may be meaning we feel insult- complete with mind reading, a sense of superiority, +/or a challenge to how we define ourself/ how we want to be seen and thought of by others.

Has anyone here on this forum experienced something like the death of the ego during/ after trauma, for example?
I think life just contributes to that for me, and it's a work in progress. Meaning I'd rather lose my ego, but gain sense of worth of self and others, and freedom.

It does remind me of what you said in the other thread- scruples in a way- wherein (paraphrasing, forgive me if it's incomplete or wrong, I'm sorry if it is), that as a consequence of your trauma and processing it, you do so much for others. And the thing is- you really are good enough, loved, and forgiven that it is not necessary. But the ego (as I understand it) says ~ 'Nope, you must do that to 'be' a good person, or because of what you chose' '. You can continue to choose exactly the same, but without being self-driven or self-condemning.

I think it sounds a lot like St. John of The Cross's Dark Night of The Soul. And Ron Rolheiser speaks much of it (Forgotten Amongst The Lillies is the only book I can recall).

And just to say, I read Forgotten Amongst the Lillies sitting surrounded by lillies, smoking my brains out and contemplating how to/ how not to kill myself. And I recall Dark Night of the Soul, feeling like, well I know this, I am in it. So whatever it involves: survival, processing, overwhelm, death of the ego, or some other name, it turns one's life upside down, I think. I think though it shakes some stuff out that was never necessary in the first place,
 
May I ask how this experience has affected you? Is it more of an "in the moment" thing or does it have lasting effects?

I underwent this two years ago (I went into some more detail on your other thread) and I still experience lasting effects from it. My use of psilocybin induced neurogenesis which permitted me to develop affective responses after 30 years of being without (I am diagnosed with inhibited Reactive Attachment Disorder). It was an extremely formative event for me that required me to re-process every single trauma that had happened to me in a different lens, using empathy and compassion.

This induced a lot of guilt and remorse which I am still slowly piecing together.

But coming out of "the fog" having been everything, having been everyone, having done every action - every atom, every speck of soil and dust, every murderer and every victim - I came out of that almost like the end of a rollercoaster ride, where suddenly I had this perspective of my own life in comparison to the vast expanse of existence out there. That I am not special or unique, that my experiences aren't meaningful beyond the meanings assigned in their vicinity -

It truly is a sense of Natura Non Contristatur. Nature isn't saddened. Nature simply moves, evolves, chaotic and flowing at once. It was very humbling, and it taught me a great deal that I am still attempting to parse (as the "information load" was so high that my brain is still parsing it after all this time). My next endeavor, now that I have some emotional responses, I will be looking at using mescaline.

Mescaline is an entheogen that is purportedly instrumental in inducing deeper emotions and connectivity with others, which is part of my treatment goals.
 
if i see someone that i perceive as being vulnerable and comfortable with it, i admire the hell out of them. Someone willing to stand up and be seen with an apparently total lack of concern for ego like a solo singer totally at home in front of a crowd. Wow, they are so laying it out without a care to be seen, so in control of what has to be a scary level of vulnerability to criticism. Probably an illusion, but it comes off as open and giving and it attracts me to them and i find them more likeable because of my perception of vulnerability.
And man. An easily spotted egotist is just begging for criticism and gets mine everytime.
So if vulnerability attracts me and ego repels me, why does ego get the first take on everything? Why is a lack of ego anything but ideal?Thats just one of the things that even when i totally get it and feel it as being so so true it near impossible for me to live it at this late stage of awareness of it. I blame generations of ancestors trying to do nothing else beyond avoiding being sent packing by the tribe, voted off the island. reproduction, survival, and keeping the number of people that dont like us to a minimum, thats where ego came from I think.
So screw ego. Its 2023, if i get voted off this island i land on another, there are lots of islands.
And yeah, lets be confidently vulnerable. I will be asleep in my bed at the end if the day, and tomorrow is another day so just be yourself and true and if criticism shows up just let it fall to the ground, wasted effort and forgotten.
Well, why the hell not? Yeah i wish i knew too.
Loss of ego feels so vulnerable. Good, way to go, let it bloom.
 
In my mid 40s, I'm going through the darkest, most difficult time of my life. Walking through the dark wood, the valley of the shadow of death.

I'm reading two books about the transition from the first half of life to the second half of life, both have a depth psychology (Jungian psychology) approach. Also reading one of Pema Chödrön's books.

  • Through the Dark Wood- Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life - by James Hollis

  • Falling Upward - A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life - by Richard Rohr

  • When things fall apart - Pema Chödrön

I feel like I'm on some strange spiritual journey which is pushing me to my absolute extremes, not just pushing me to my boundaries, but breaking them all and leaving them smashed in pieces.

I feel like I'm a phoenix who is burning alive and will turn into ashes and may turn into something new, but that feels so far away. All that's present right now is the burning and the dying.

I don't know how to describe it other than it feels like my "ego" is dying.

I've been into Buddhism long enough to know that's a good thing... that's the aim... for your ego to die...

But f*ck it feels awful... It's the f*cking worst... It feels like being tormented by all your inner demons... It feels like what a cold turkey withdrawal from heroin must feel like....

Ugh... it feels like if I survive this... if I have the courage to go through all the stages of it, without flinching, avoiding, bypassing it... then it will be a deeply healing spiritual journey... I just honestly dunno if I've got it in me...

Has anyone here on this forum experienced something like the death of the ego during/ after trauma, for example?
It is a comfort to read your post, as you are not alone I am going through times that have made me question everything including that possibility. I am so afraid I have lost the last drop of faith I had been hanging onto and I don’t know how I’ll make it any further on this path without it… chin up-you aren’t alone and know I’ll be here too
 
I feel like I'm on some strange spiritual journey which is pushing me to my absolute extremes, not just pushing me to my boundaries, but breaking them all and leaving them smashed in pieces.
Oh, I've been in this place for the last several years. It is sooo hard. But, depending on your spiritual beliefs, you could see it as a kind of awakening.
I've been into Buddhism long enough to know that's a good thing... that's the aim... for your ego to die...

But f*ck it feels awful... It's the f*cking worst...
Oh yeah. Extremely so. And I think the process is worse for those of us who have experienced trauma.
But at the end of the day, nothing really matters,
I came to this realization ?a couple? of years ago, and it has been both incredibly liberating and a bit destabilizing. But as I explore it--in everything I do, every day--I am realizing that, for me, the destabilization is absolutely worth it.
 
Oh, I've been in this place for the last several years. It is sooo hard. But, depending on your spiritual beliefs, you could see it as a kind of awakening.

Oh yeah. Extremely so. And I think the process is worse for those of us who have experienced trauma.

I came to this realization ?a couple? of years ago, and it has been both incredibly liberating and a bit destabilizing. But as I explore it--in everything I do, every day--I am realizing that, for me, the destabilization is absolutely worth it.
Thank you-that makes me feel reassured
 
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