Massive backfire in therapy - don't know what to do

[beaneeboo]

@beaneeboo , Idk if this is helpful but I was reminded of it today about myself. I really like the term 'imaginary
conversations'. It's the ones we have with ourselves that keep morphing following a difficult or confusing incident. And they end up rife with the past. And we second guess everything and ourselves. And especially since trauma has a way of making molehills in to mountains. But we are too busy unintentionally following through to worst case scenarios. After all, they've occurred before. even if we were just bystanders/ collateral damage.

You are so right. Thank you because I am beginning to see this process has partially set in. I am trying hard to catch it.

I am in no way invalidating your experience, perspective or upset. in fact, I wholly do.

Thank you. I know from the tone of your writing that you do.

But I'll give an example I had today:

Then, I stopped, and thought how the hell did I get work assigned and end up thinking of SA??? Or childhood.

I very much relate to what you wrote... and although the content isn't funny I had a little smile because your example was so on point. This is how my mind works too. Thanks for highlighting...

. But that doesn't mean I won't feel disappointment, mostly in myself or questioning what I did wrong (again) to not be able to avoid or change the outcome (ask for help -> nothing).

Yup - I get it.

If you can be curious versus defensive, step back for perspective, and not catastrophize but actually maintain some expectation instead of minimizing entirely what you need or hope to try to achieve, and communicate (versus imaginary conversations in your own head, which shuts communication down) it might help, not just yourself but maybe your T also.

Ok... this is very clear... and I'm going to make a real effort to... you're right..I need to stop all these imaginary convos in my head...

or maybe his insight is greater than yours for the long term goal of recovery?

I hope so...

 

[Sideways]

I agree 100%. I'm equally confused. I imagine he would say i just treat the person in front of me, I don't need to see the issues as a diagnosis

My own experience is that a lot of the mental health profession, from specialist nurses through to psychiatrists, won’t enter into parts work. Diagnosis or not.

It’s not always down to not ‘believing’ in the diagnosis (although, that is definitely a factor for some). Sometimes it’s based on (quite a bit) of evidence that parts work can further destabilise a patient, rather than be helpful.

For myself? I ultimately needed to find a treatment team that I could do parts work with. That didn’t mean the years of treatment I’d done was time wasted, it definitely wasn’t. But it was time I needed something else.

 

[beaneeboo]

A therapist isn’t going to spend thousands of dollars to become trained in a modality just because one client is interested in it and sends him a few videos.

agreed

It’s clear that you don’t understand the therapist education and certification process if you think that having access to YouTube videos means he has access to the material he would need to learn in order to treat you.

Disagree

It doesn’t work this way.

I know. And I never expected the videos were professional training. Just a free opportunity to learn from someone who does training in this area - IF he wanted to/ was interested. I never expected him to di anything. Was just sharing a resource.

Triggers are on you. Why would you expect the session to be about him and how he triggered you?

Good point. This has got me thinking. Thank you.

So he could learn how to tiptoe around you and not trigger you again?

no I never thought that.

His triggering wasn’t intentional, and any therapist who tiptoes around your triggers isn’t going to offer you any sort of actual healing.

Agreed

This is a huge part of the problem, but to be fair, this is the BS that the therapy world pushes on clients, and it’s 1000% NOT necessary to “trust” your therapist in order to heal, at least not in the way that you are thinking.

Not sure what way you think I'm thinking about it. But I whole heartedly disagree with this. I believe that building trust is really important. Without it, I'm unable to discuss my life with a therapist. I know my T thinks the trust aspect is an important part of the therapy process. But that's ok if youdon't agree. Guess it's important what I feel in relation to me.

Yes, trust in them on a professional level, like you’d trust a cardiologist to treat your heart condition. IMO too many people think they need to trust in their therapist on a personal level like you’d trust a partner or a friend, and really, you don’t.

yes I agree. I don't want to trust him like my partner or friend. We've discussed how the therapy relationship is unique - no other relationship like it for either client or therapist. The reason I have this relationship with him is because I CAN'T discuss this stuff with anyone else. That's what I'm paying him for. So it's a transactional relationship. But that doesn't mean trust shouldn't be a part of that

You’ve spent 10 months searching for this mythical deep sense of trust in your therapist

Nope

And again, why make your healing dependent upon a relationship that can end in an instant (person dies, suddenly leaves, or just says “I don’t want to work with you anymore”.)

We've discussed this. He's said unless he's ill or dying that this will not happen. Going ahead with that thinking, we shouldn't trust anyone ever - they may die or decide not to be your friend/ your partner. I don't want to live life like that. I think trust is very important.

You keep bringing up this validating stuff

Yes it's an important part of my therapy story. I don't expect others to understand. But would appreciate not being judged on it.

. I’m not sure if it’s because you are young, as I know that younger generations are very dependent upon everyone else validating them (in whatever capacity).

No I'm not young. But some of my parts are.

The problem with this in therapy is that you are expecting your therapist to just agree with you about everything.

I don't think I am. T and I have disagreed with other things in the past. But this is a good point which I'll be reflecting on more. I was triggered not because of him disagreeing but his voice, body language and facial expressions which communicated threat to me whilst saying his thoughts. Mix that with someone intimating i was wrong was a recipe for disaster for me because of my past.

did you specifically tell him that you want someone who specializes in trauma AND dissociative disorders? If not, that’s on you.

Disagree. I told him re wanting a trauma therapist (this is how he advertised himself anyway) and he knew about my DDNOS from very early on. Its not just on me it's on both of us.

Many people have multiple disorders and only want someone who treats one of them. Not everyone who treats trauma is also trained specifically to treat more severe dissociative disorders.

agree

It seems like you want the world to change

Incorrect. But don't we all sometimes! (Don't answer that lol)

(Another reason I’m guessing you are young, as it’s very much a younger generations type thing to want everyone else to change so that you don’t feel bad anymore, but this isn’t how it works.)

Incorrect

He doesn’t have a closed mindset so much as he doesn’t have training in how to treat your disorder.

yep agree

If you need a therapist who specializes in dissociative disorders you have no choice but to look elsewhere.

True.

Again, see above. Focusing on seeking out external validation isn’t going to get you anywhere as you require a therapist to agree with you on everything, and challenge you on nothing.

Yep I seewhat you're saying and I value this comment to reflect on, thanks

I will say that validation is something you should stop seeking. There’s never going to be enough validation in the world to make you finally feel ok to the point where you stop seeking validation. So what if someone doesn’t agree with you? That’s just one person. You need to find this all within yourself, and if you can’t do that right away, then you just learn to sit with the uncomfortable feelings. No, it’s not easy. Most of the time it downright sucks. But, I do know that seeking that reassurance is absolutely not the way you are going to heal.

Thanks i really appreciate you highlighting this...

 

[beaneeboo]

I've found that a compromise/ a gradual step with this is to write down the stuff that I would want to email and print it out and then take it to the session and read it out loud. Somethings are too hard to "just say" for me and I need the crutch of writing it down.

This is what I've done too and it's worked well.

So taking my notes in and reading them can help me to verbalise something that I might otherwise stay mute/ silent about.

this is exactly it for me

The problem is parts will stop me from taking notes in to him... so it doesn't matter whether I've written them or not... that's why the email is helpful - I can't ignore it and it has to be addressed if he has it too

 

[beaneeboo]

Sometimes it’s based on (quite a bit) of evidence that parts work can further destabilise a patient, rather than be helpful.

And I imagine this extends to people who don't have dissociative disorders too right?

For myself? I ultimately needed to find a treatment team that I could do parts work with. That didn’t mean the years of treatment I’d done was time wasted, it definitely wasn’t. But it was time I needed something else.

That makes sense to me..

Can I ask, would you have done parts work with someone who didn't specialise in DID?

Do you think it's possible, as someone with a dissociative disorder, to work with a therapist who isn't specifically trained in managing that? As long as they understand trauma/ptsd etc and have a general understanding of it? And do you think it's important to make a distinction between therapy for people with trauma/dissociative tendencies e.g derealisation/depersonalisation and people with DID/OSDD who have parts?

Same questions for @whiteraven and @Ecdysis and anyone else with DID/OSDD

 

[Sideways]

The problem is parts will stop me from taking notes in to him

This is a hurdle that you can definitely overcome!

Do you know why those parts have a problem with you communicating certain things with your T (some pf my parts find it feels unsafe, which is perfectly understandable given their experiences).

I find journalling with them individually incredibly helpful. I use the Joplin app to give each of my parts their own journaling space in a single location (it’s an app that allows you to have a number of seperate notebooks in one place).

I also use the Antar app to help keep track of group conversations (it’s like Whatsapp, but instead of having other people in the one group, you can create all the contributors yourself - so each part you want in any particular conversation simply sends a message and it looks like a group chat).

Sometimes having those discussions in advance can mean you know what your parts are okay talking to your T about. And you can intentionally invite them to attend the appointment with you and spectate, so they know what you’re discussing to help them feel safer.

It can also be helpful to follow up with the parts after therapy to check that they felt safe with what you were communicating. That helps build command trust, which means you can gradually expand what you discuss in therapy. It’s not the case that your parts will never feel safe with the therapy process. But it can take a bit longer to build that trust for some parts.

 

[Sideways]

And I imagine this extends to people who don't have dissociative disorders too right?

Absolutely.

Can I ask, would you have done parts work with someone who didn't specialise in DID?

Definitely not. Nope. No way, no how.

Do you think it's important, as someone with a dissociative disorder, to work with a therapist who isn't specifically trained in managing that? As long as they understand trauma/ptsd etc and have a general understanding of it?

I don’t think it’s necessary important to work with Ts who don’t specialise in dissociative disorders. But for me it has been immensely helpful. Because my Ts who specialise in DDs always have a parts-bent on their approach.

I’ve done a shiteload of therapy work with Ts who have never done parts work, and some of that was probably way more pivotal in helping me stabilise. CBT and ACT in particular - I wouldn’t be where I am without having knuckled down on them, without bringing my parts into it.

But equally, having DID, I wouldn’t have achieved stability if I hadn’t learned how to collaborate with my parts.

 

[beaneeboo]

This is a hurdle that you can definitely overcome!

Do you know why those parts have a problem with you communicating certain things with your T (some pf my parts find it feels unsafe, which is perfectly understandable given their experiences).

Unsafe, embarrassed... when I read back that one of my parts is reflecting that I deserve to be used for another man's sexual gratification and that's what drives me (them), I feel like it's not me communicating that message...I feel awkward, mortified and unsafe to bring that up in a 50 min session. It's not my stuff to communicate and I don't want to have to deal with it

I find journalling with them individually incredibly helpful. I use the Joplin app to give each of my parts their own journaling space in a single location (it’s an app that allows you to have a number of seperate notebooks in one place).

I think this is what I need to try. I'm going ti look into them. I have been told by another professional who doesn't work with me but who I had a one off consultation with, that he felt I may not be ready for communicating with my parts yet because of my amnesia... but I'll keep this in mind

I also use the Antar app to help keep track of group conversations (it’s like Whatsapp, but instead of having other people in the one group, you can create all the contributors yourself - so each part you want in any particular conversation simply sends a message and it looks like a group chat).

Sometimes having those discussions in advance can mean you know what your parts are okay talking to your T about. And you can intentionally invite them to attend the appointment with you and spectate, so they know what you’re discussing to help them feel safer.

See i don't know about doing stuff like this. This is a good idea. Still not sure how it would work but can try. I don't have much communicating going on at all at the mo. But I am trying to make contact every day. I don't have a clear idea of who is who. But when I dissociated badly in session and couldn't speak or look up it became more clear in that moment. T also said he thought that this was a different part than who'd entered the room at the beg of the sesh. I think there were 3 parts there. Small/ wordless me (maybe one I've called Sarah in the past); protector me (gate down, inhibiting any communication, movement, eye contact or noise and also adult me (very very mildly in the background). Part of me was trying to figure a way out the room but I couldn't move and adult me stepped in to talk the smaller part out of a panic attack but telling her it was ok and I'd look after her/ how to slow breathing down etc.

It can also be helpful to follow up with the parts after therapy to check that they felt safe with what you were communicating. That helps build command trust, which means you can gradually expand what you discuss in therapy. It’s not the case that your parts will never feel safe with the therapy process. But it can take a bit longer to build that trust for some parts.

This is really valuable info for me thank you so much

 

[whiteraven]

Can I ask, would you have done parts work with someone who didn't specialise in DID?

Do you think it's possible, as someone with a dissociative disorder, to work with a therapist who isn't specifically trained in managing that?

I worked with two therapists who specialized in DID--both with radically different ways of doing it--and I honestly don't think I could ever have made any progress without that work.

Just my opinion, but I think a therapist needs a strong understanding of and training or work in dissociative disorders in order to effectively treat them.

 

[Sideways]

I may not be ready for communicating with my parts yet because of my amnesia... but I'll keep this in mind

I can’t speak to OSDD, but I can tell you that with DID, when you first start communicating with parts, it’s almost universally immensely destabilising. People, coexisting in the same body, who genuinely loathe each other, and disapprove of the way the others deal with stress and potential threats.

Some of my parts went to war with each other when we opened that door. And it was flat out dangerous, and I had to be hospitalised to stay safe a number of times (read…a lot of times).

That’s why, certainly with DID, I wouldn’t do parts work with anyone who doesn’t specialise in it. Because they will know that’s coming. And they will be ready for when things inevitably blow up, with DID-specific strategies, to keep you safe.

But again, that may or may not apply with OSDD.

 

[whiteraven]

when you first start communicating with parts, it’s almost universally immensely destabilising. People, coexisting in the same body, who genuinely loathe each other, and disapprove of the way the others deal with stress and potential threats.

Oh yeah...so true. And not only in how they relate to each other but just the very idea that you are hearing from others *inside.* Freaked me out big time initially.

I wouldn’t do parts work with anyone who doesn’t specialise in it. Because they will know that’s coming. And they will be ready for when things inevitably blow up, with DID-specific strategies, to keep you safe.

Well-said.

 

[beaneeboo]

I don’t think it’s necessary important to work with Ts who don’t specialise in dissociative disorders. But for me it has been immensely helpful. Because my Ts who specialise in DDs always have a parts-bent on their approach.

Thanks @Sideways .. sorry I didn't understand this. You mean it's been immensely helpful to work with Ts who don't have specific experience in it?

I’ve done a shiteload of therapy work with Ts who have never done parts work, and some of that was probably way more pivotal in helping me stabilise. CBT and ACT in particular - I wouldn’t be where I am without having knuckled down on them, without bringing my parts into it.

Make sense. Also in the same boat.

But equally, having DID, I wouldn’t have achieved stability if I hadn’t learned how to collaborate with my parts.

Great that you have/ are