I still am unsure whether I agree that many men are pedophilic through genes alone.
I'm not comfortable reading the literature right now, but would like to point out that men and women have the same types of traits in their genomes, not touching on epigenetics, environment, hormones, health, etc. When men are more predisposed to something, ESPECIALLY originating in the brain, than women, it is rarely through genes alone, even if some genes may not have become activated until exposed on the DNA or from under histomes.
I say this because people are using this argument to excuse female pedophiles as "doing a motherly role" and other similar arguments, and the argument that people with vaginas who becomes transmasculine and who decide to/can take testosterone are at risk for becoming abusive or pedophilic. The last one is an argument that's making it difficult for me to use public bathrooms right now, and I know you don't mean anything by it, so just wanted the bring the issue up because any topic about gender and pedophilia quickly ventures into such territories.
But even if a condition is genetic that does not mean it can’t be overcome, right?
There was a user here years ago who stopped coming on regularly after a cancer diagnosis (mentioned through her youtube, not through these forums). She hasn't been by in years (not sure if she survived or not) so I'll talk about her without bringing up the username. (If you know the username, you know, no need to bring in a name at this point.)
She had been raised in a cult with rituals involving beastiality. She regularly would ask questions or say concerning things about beastiality, including making threads about the fear of "accidentally" having sexual relations with a dog that was a service dog she was training (through uneducated methods, with little suggestibility on feeding suggestions or training methods). She regularly hinted in her diary or through threads on these forums that, especially when triggered, she was behaving sexually towards the dog, even going so far as to post threads about getting anxious while performing these acts to the point that the dog would go into service-dog trained mode, so to speak, and put a paw on her or do deep pressure activities, but also implying that this was an activity she hoped to be able to do normally without any fear of becoming more triggered. She would also imply that she had regularly been within potentially online-only beastiality forums/circles and found through her research that a crush on a dog was not a bad thing. I obviously cannot read this person's mind, but I feel this example can help you conceptualize this issue without as much confusion? If not, or if it's too upsetting, just ignore this portion.
Was the issue genetic? Hard to say. Especially with a history of trauma, and therefore a confirmed environmental factor, it is not necessarily possible or likely that we will get a definite answer to whether or not this was something she was genetically predisposed to have, or if her environment molded her.
When it comes to sexual orientation, I and many, many other people have had to defend their sexuality or gender. Straight people are often mocked for being gay, gay/bi/etc people are often accused to being traumatized into being gay, etc.
In fact, I've had the experience of a therapist trying to tell me that I would not have learned empathy if I had not been raised by my abusive father. That one REALLY upset me.
Obviously, the reason for this is that trauma does not change who you like or why. That's not the problem with trauma. People can be gay, straight, empathetic, sociopathic, etc from birth, potentially. The research is hard to say on this -- thankfully, because when autism was found to be potentially genetic, for example, the organization Autism Speaks, full of only people without autism, was created with the hope and goal of eliminating autism from the world forever. Thankfully, it's rarely that simple.
In "username's" case with the dog, it's hard to say what happened. Was she "genetically" (aka, born to be) attracted to dogs? Many zoophiles report being attracted specifically to one or two species at most and not having an attraction to others, according to scientific research. Some never develop an attraction towards humans at all. We can't know how every single zoophile was raised. And we can't ask early humans or just any humans throughout history about their beliefs and opinions on it, except for what little was recorded through history AND not destroyed or purposefully misinterpreted by modern, white archeologists in the 1800s or 1900s, for example.
Could her trauma have made her more likely to engage in the acts, especially as it was ritual abuse? Maybe. But we can't know for sure. Even if we could mindread, it's doubtful that "username" would have known, either. In fact, specifically arguing that it was natural and not something caused by trauma would have made her feel more in control about the trauma. It would only have been because of trauma if it were a legal argument to avoid legal repercussion, most likely, but we don't know that.
You may be able to see where I'm going here but I'll say it anyway -- the problem isn't zoophilia itself. The problem isn't pedophilia itself. The issue is safety. Yes, we can study all day and research others' research all year to find out whether it's genetic or a disorder or not. But that in itself is not the main issue.
Humans are naturally violent. Do we ever wonder if a murderer was predisposed to killing? Or do we assume that it would have been wiser to be in control of those emotions? It depends, but outside the military or police, or even self defense? It's generally not accepted, right?
Yes, it would be helpful to know if pedophilia is genetic or not, for treatment potentially, but it's unlikely we will find out in the near future. Our debates don't change how we see our trauma. Here's the thing -- pedophilia could have been perfectly natural once. It has been normalized before in multiple settings. In OUR society, it is frowned upon so much that even if it COULD be healthy, which is not something I'm comfortable debating, it sure isn't now. Typically when you hear about it, it is not normalized, and often even when it IS, such as a young boy being targeted by a female babysitter or teacher who is "hot," the boy still suffers affects from it. There's just often a lot less shame of a specific type that girls tend to get.
What does it mean if we found out that every pedophile was genetically "wired" to be that way? Would would it mean to you?
Would it be different if we found out tomorrow that every pedophile was raised to be one? Would it be different if every pedophile turned out to be environmentally pre-destined through something else? That it was secretly a sexual orientation and the sexual materity of all children has changed because of Christianity or something?
Just some thoughts. :)
Children is not a gender.
PREACH
There are various studies that show that intervention does not stop reoffending. So, they don’t change.
Most people won't admit to being pedophiles. So, most studies are done with prisoners who have already become incredibly unwell or lack empathy to an unhealthy degree already. It creates an odd bias, because yes, people who have already been unhealthy enough to damage themselves or other people are unlikely to have remorse to begin with. People who know better simply wouldn't do it, theoretically.
I have heard that America is one of the most pedophile-friendliest nations in all of history.
And not even bringing Ancient Greece and Rome into it, where pedophilia was common AND accepted.
That's what I was going to mention! Haha. Yeah, there is an uncomfortable degree allowed in certain situations in the United States, but it's better than it has ever been and still likely to improve. These situations were obviously negative. Ancient Greek pederasty is a complex subject.
Anyway, just wanted to chime in as a fellow survivor of assault.
The pedophile I knew and thought I was in a relationship with felt guilt. He may have been faking it to blackmail me, and/or guilt me into silence, yes, but there were times were it was incredibly clear that he was worried not just about the consequeses of if he got caught, but if he was a bad person for having hurt me. This was especially true if he had been drinking and wasn't sure what he had done. Part of it was the honeymoon cycle, but even accidental abuse is still serious to the person it's happening to.
I have wondered before if he had stayed away from alcohol, if the "relationship" would have worked out, and realized that the answer is no. I, as a child, wanted an adult's attention and respect and did not know I could say no, or that some of the things I was agreeing to would cause me longterm confusion or harm, with VERY little guidance from outsiders. The fact that society saw me, then seen as a girl (one of the only times I ever truly leaned into that gender), in a certain light made it much, much worse. I felt a sense of shame that I should not have had to deal with at that age.
The thing is, pedo was so worried about if he was causing harm that he genuinely failed to see where he was, or else was in flat out denial about it. Does it matter if he had good or bad intentions? No. It did not affect how it affected me. If we put him in the legal system right now, the intentions would not have merit. What WOULD is whether or not he did something that is not allowed legally in this country.
I specifically say "this country" because in some tribes and countries, it would have been legal for me to be married to him. Would that have made it less traumatic if I were from one of these places? No idea. I'd have to ask someone from one of those places. It sure doesn't seem like a good idea to me, though.
Pedo truly believed he had a sexual orientation that prevented him from connecting romantically or sexually with adults. He specifically guilted me, either on accident or with a specific intent or goal (it does not matter which), for being the child of a white man (he was native american) and insisted that his people would have been okay with this if it hadn't been for white people. I'm not sure fellow members of his nation would agree, but that is besides the point. I deserve a gold mansion and will never have one. If he deserves a child bride, unfortunately he won't have one (theoretically -- I would like to point out that once he let me go, he decided to move to China in order to marry a girl there, which was presumably done with at least temporary success).
It's easy to get stuck in the mud, but listen. Even someone who felt he would not be happy without a child in his life caused harm. He made decisions that hurt multiple women/girls. He may not have wanted to -- obviously that's up for interpretation -- but just the fact that I wanted to reassure him that it wasn't true was enough.
Most people, when worried, would simply choose to not have done the act to begin with.
Most people abused with the use of animals, like "username," would be shocked at the thought of continuing that cycle of abuse. Most would not try to make it work. It's an extremely difficult topic, but genetic or not, the issue is in the chosen actions and whether or not they caused harm.
If that helps at all. I know I'm not putting up a debate for whether it's genetic or not to be pedophilic, but I really feel that argument will get you stuck in the weeds forever, like I constantly am. I am constantly worried about that pedo and my role in his life. But the fact that I feel dirty about it when I think on it and wish I hadn't gotten caught up in an adult's life at a vulnerable time in my life tells me a lot.
As does that one "username." Multiple people warned her to back off the dog and try to talk it through with therapists or online, but she was so defensive about how the dog couldn't stay at a friend's for a while that it came across as she had a right to this animal's genitals. And that wasn't true -- and the unknowns of whether or not it MIGHT hurt the doggo should have been more heavility considered than it was, rather than simply becoming defensive, right?
Just wanted to put it out there. Hope this entire thing is helpful to someone. It's a difficult subject to talk about.
Edit to add: there aren't a lot of resources for pedophiles who don't want to commit a crime, but here's something else I didn't mention that's important. First of all, there are forums out there, protected, specifically for these adults who are in need of validation and support because they are disturbed by their attractions. And second of all, if you love someone and respect them as an equal, do you risk hurting them?
In my opinion, and something that has helped me cope for years: If that pedo loved children so much, why did he have sex with one? Was that necessary? Would he have died if he had refrained?
No one ever HAS to have sex. For some people, a relationship without sex can be difficult or impossible. But if that person was not in a relationship and had no access to sex workers or friends with benefits or one night stands, would that person die? Is masturbation with fantasies not enough to prevent that potential negative? And, if so, can no roleplay work, no fictional story, absolutely nothing? No way to cope at all that doesn't involve involving someone else? If I wanted to sleep with a mermaid, for instance, would I would die?
I personally can't even stand the thought of leaving people upset in a simple conversation. I would never sleep with anyone who might not know what they're getting in to.
