Medical PTSD from Mistreatment in Hospital During Birth

[Rose White]

@ilexvert glad you can see it but trying to explain it to most people, especially when you are emotional, gets you shut out—people just don’t want to hear it, for a huge variety of reasons. You are exceptionally in tune but you need your support system! In my birthing days I used Facebook, yahoo groups, and mothering.com to find support—not easy! I think with your motivation you could maybe find or start a group in your community through Meetup for women traumatized by birth. Or just put in all the hashtags of your story into Instagram or TikTok to find those who are also screaming to be heard. It helps SO much to talk face to face to women who get it. And there are men who get it too.

 

[Sideways]

I really mean it, if you knew how bad it was you would never let a loved one go

This is akin to me saying: if you truly loved them, you’d never let the people close to you go to church. Because I was absued in a church, and I can’t do anything about it.

I’m guessing you’re not in Australia, because the medical negligence industry is a multi-million dollar industry, and insurance to keep them covered is the leading cost of being a medical specialist of any kind.

There’s also been huge changes afoot over the last 10 years here to make birthing in hospitals less clinical, and parent-centred, together with more investment in offering in-home midwifery services where a non-clinical setting is safe for bub and mum.

I don’t tell people: if you loved them, you’d never let them go to church. Because it’s completely irrational, and flies in the face of most people’s experiences of church. And yet, my experience was real, my suffering is valid, and what happened to me should never have happened.

Your experience was real. Your suffering is valid. What happened to you should never have happened.

But the conclusion “no one ever should…”, is a distortion driven by the degree of your suffering, rather than logic.

 

[ilexvert]

This is akin to me saying: if you truly loved them, you’d never let the people close to you go to church. Because I was absued in a church, and I can’t do anything about it.

I’m guessing you’re not in Australia, because the medical negligence industry is a multi-million dollar industry, and insurance to keep them covered is the leading cost of being a medical specialist of any kind.

There’s also been huge changes afoot over the last 10 years here to make birthing in hospitals less clinical, and parent-centred, together with more investment in offering in-home midwifery services where a non-clinical setting is safe for bub and mum.

I don’t tell people: if you loved them, you’d never let them go to church. Because it’s completely irrational, and flies in the face of most people’s experiences of church. And yet, my experience was real, my suffering is valid, and what happened to me should never have happened.

Your experience was real. Your suffering is valid. What happened to you should never have happened.

But the conclusion “no one ever should…”, is a distortion driven by the degree of your suffering, rather than logic.

Again you are not reading what I am writing. The legal precedent isn't there. I've talked to ten lawyers so far.

It's so interesting you think you know it all having had no experience or research into this topic.

It's not the trauma it's the FACT you have no rights when you go into labor and delivery. Good luck finding a lawyer who will care. I even talked to the ones who represented one of the MSU gymnasts and it was a flat out "consent doesn't matter, bye".

 

[ilexvert]

@ilexvert glad you can see it but trying to explain it to most people, especially when you are emotional, gets you shut out—people just don’t want to hear it, for a huge variety of reasons. You are exceptionally in tune but you need your support system! In my birthing days I used Facebook, yahoo groups, and mothering.com to find support—not easy! I think with your motivation you could maybe find or start a group in your community through Meetup for women traumatized by birth. Or just put in all the hashtags of your story into Instagram or TikTok to find those who are also screaming to be heard. It helps SO much to talk face to face to women who get it. And there are men who get it too.

Well it's obvious this forum is a waste of time with men trying to tell women their experience.

That’s what you took from what I wrote?

You might try rereading when you’re feeling less defensive.

All my best, to you & yours.

I'm leaving this forum you people are awful.

You don't seem to realize this isn't oh we saved your baby it's that they caused these issues then lied to me, medically raped me, then forced me to have a surgery I truly don't need because she wasn't stuck she moved down and they ignored me telling them.

But who cares to truly understand any do this, I'm supposed to listen to YOU people tell me how to think and feel.

And for a fact birth is not a medical event and can be a beautiful thing, yeah it's intense and snot easy but so is running a marathon. But running a marathon can be pretty traumatic if people were to interject and ruin the experience because it's their race not yours, no achievement of your body and what it can do, just medically getting you across the line by any means necessary. A means to an end. Break the vessel who cares.

 

[anthony]

I'm leaving this forum you people are awful.

You mean we have opinions and look at as many sides as possible, not just the bias that suits ourselves? Sure. That is the aim of this website, to not think negatively, to not use negative thinking styles, to look at things rationally with eyes as wide open as possible, to remove those annoying views we use that exacerbate our symptoms and only do us harm? OK!

PS. Most others responding are female. They too have vaginas and give birth. Just food for thought!

I think you have a problem. Nobody is saying what happened to you is not traumatic. I haven't read that. Hey, I'm just a male though and apparently have no clue about female issues (cough, father of 3). If this is the case, then only female doctors understand birth. Shit... so all those male gynaecologists are actually useless then?

You are using what's called, all or nothing thinking. It's all bad, or it's nothing. A few others too from the list.

Primary cognitive distortions (negative thinking styles)

Cognitive distortion forms the backbone of PTSD. Whether you know it or not, all moods and behavioral patterns originate from your cognitions-- your thoughts. The first thing that happens is a thought, and then a mood or behavior occurs. When you allow an area of your life to become dominated...

www.myptsd.com

You should stick to personal experience, as when you start showing Google research, that is the moment I think you're trolling, hence I have removed your links. Your trauma is your trauma, what happened to someone else has nothing to do with your experience. If one in every hundred births have issues, your focus it seems, is on that one birth, discarding that 99 are good with positive outcomes. Rhetorical illustrative figures. Even if it were one bad in every 10 births, that is still 9 good births with healthy babies and living mothers to raise that child.

Shit, I have supported you so far, but it seems as a male I have no idea. You don't like questions and are angry. You need to get control of your anger. It is your problem, nobody else. Only you can help you. What you write here will attract diverse opinions and experience, globally. It seems you just want yes people though, not honest opinions and diverse experience.

 

[ilexvert]

You mean we have opinions and look at as many sides as possible, not just the bias that suits ourselves? Sure. That is the aim of this website, to not think negatively, to not use negative thinking styles, to look at things rationally with eyes as wide open as possible, to remove those annoying views we use that exacerbate our symptoms and only do us harm? OK!

PS. Most others responding are female. They too have vaginas and give birth. Just food for thought!

I think you have a problem. Nobody is saying what happened to you is not traumatic. I haven't read that. Hey, I'm just a male though and apparently have no clue about female issues (cough, father of 3). If this is the case, then only female doctors understand birth. Shit... so all those male gynaecologists are actually useless then?

You are using what's called, all or nothing thinking. It's all bad, or it's nothing. A few others too from the list.

Primary cognitive distortions (negative thinking styles)

Cognitive distortion forms the backbone of PTSD. Whether you know it or not, all moods and behavioral patterns originate from your cognitions-- your thoughts. The first thing that happens is a thought, and then a mood or behavior occurs. When you allow an area of your life to become dominated...

www.myptsd.com

You should stick to personal experience, as when you start showing Google research, that is the moment I think you're trolling, hence I have removed your links. Your trauma is your trauma, what happened to someone else has nothing to do with your experience. If one in every hundred births have issues, your focus it seems, is on that one birth, discarding that 99 are good with positive outcomes. Rhetorical illustrative figures. Even if it were one bad in every 10 births, that is still 9 good births with healthy babies and living mothers to raise that child.

Shit, I have supported you so far, but it seems as a male I have no idea. You don't like questions and are angry. You need to get control of your anger. It is your problem, nobody else. Only you can help you. What you write here will attract diverse opinions and experience, globally. It seems you just want yes people though, not honest opinions and diverse experience.

No one would go to a hospital for anything if they knew they had no legal recourse for forced or no consent.

I have called and called and called. No lawyer will listen.

No women goes into a hospital thinking they will lose their right to bodily autonomy. If they knew they wouldn't go.

 

[Shaylee]

it's the FACT you have no rights when you go into labor and delivery. Good luck finding a lawyer who will care. I even talked to the ones who represented one of the MSU gymnasts and it was a flat out "consent doesn't matter, bye".

I would not go so far as to say fact by any means. I had all 4 of mine in hospitals. All were vaginal and I was never forced. My first one she was late, they had to break my water and it was greenish. I was asked then and said no and she is now 30. My second he kept getting the cord wrapped around his neck and I was asked and said no. He is now 26 almost 27. My 3rd there was an intern who I didn’t know who kept touching me and after I yelled at her (while in labor) the nurses and my OB wouldn’t let her again. My 4th—well I think my vagina was so stretched by that point she just came out

my oldest daughter on the other hand had an emergency c-section with her first (he wasn’t moving down the birth canal and heart rate was dropping) but she consented and then OPTED for c-sections with her last three. She preferred the recovery process and could schedule their births. That choice is something to bear in mind when reading statistics. It isn’t always the doctor who makes the decision. Not every woman wants a vaginal birth.

Well it's obvious this forum is a waste of time with men trying to tell women their experience.

Most men I know will do whatever their woman wants and most would fight on their woman’s behalf. I think it is very unfair to be that stereotypical.

As with everything, some good, some bad. Can’t use one and say it applies to everyone.


edit to add:

No one would go to a hospital for anything if they knew they had no legal recourse for forced or no consent.

Regarding many medications that was probably part and parcel of paperwork you did sign. Most everywhere in the US you have to sign something giving a doctor the right to treat you. Whether it be in an office, urgent care, hospital, etc. This would includes doing whatever they can to ensure survival of you and your baby. I mean let’s face it, the vast majority of women giving birth aren’t doctors. They have no idea what they will need in those moments, unfortunately gut feelings don’t count. Personally, I don’t think it would be reasonable to expect consent for every medication, every non-surgical procedure. Then again I was also not a very nice in labor person, if they had of insisted on getting my consent on every little thing I would have backhanded them and told them to f*ck off .

 

[ilexvert]

You mean we have opinions and look at as many sides as possible, not just the bias that suits ourselves? Sure. That is the aim of this website, to not think negatively, to not use negative thinking styles, to look at things rationally with eyes as wide open as possible, to remove those annoying views we use that exacerbate our symptoms and only do us harm? OK!

PS. Most others responding are female. They too have vaginas and give birth. Just food for thought!

I think you have a problem. Nobody is saying what happened to you is not traumatic. I haven't read that. Hey, I'm just a male though and apparently have no clue about female issues (cough, father of 3). If this is the case, then only female doctors understand birth. Shit... so all those male gynaecologists are actually useless then?

You are using what's called, all or nothing thinking. It's all bad, or it's nothing. A few others too from the list.

Primary cognitive distortions (negative thinking styles)

Cognitive distortion forms the backbone of PTSD. Whether you know it or not, all moods and behavioral patterns originate from your cognitions-- your thoughts. The first thing that happens is a thought, and then a mood or behavior occurs. When you allow an area of your life to become dominated...

www.myptsd.com

You should stick to personal experience, as when you start showing Google research, that is the moment I think you're trolling, hence I have removed your links. Your trauma is your trauma, what happened to someone else has nothing to do with your experience. If one in every hundred births have issues, your focus it seems, is on that one birth, discarding that 99 are good with positive outcomes. Rhetorical illustrative figures. Even if it were one bad in every 10 births, that is still 9 good births with healthy babies and living mothers to raise that child.

Shit, I have supported you so far, but it seems as a male I have no idea. You don't like questions and are angry. You need to get control of your anger. It is your problem, nobody else. Only you can help you. What you write here will attract diverse opinions and experience, globally. It seems you just want yes people though, not honest opinions and diverse experience.

This is so condescending.

I would not go so far as to say fact by any means. I had all 4 of mine in hospitals. All were vaginal and I was never forced. My first one she was late, they had to break my water and it was greenish. I was asked then and said no and she is now 30. My second he kept getting the cord wrapped around his neck and I was asked and said no. He is now 26 almost 27. My 3rd there was an intern who I didn’t know who kept touching me and after I yelled at her (while in labor) the nurses and my OB wouldn’t let her again. My 4th—well I think my vagina was so stretched by that point she just came out

my oldest daughter on the other hand had an emergency c-section with her first (he wasn’t moving down the birth canal and heart rate was dropping) but she consented and then OPTED for c-sections with her last three. She preferred the recovery process and could schedule their births. That choice is something to bear in mind when reading statistics. It isn’t always the doctor who makes the decision. Not every woman wants a vaginal birth.


Most men I know will do whatever their woman wants and most would fight on their woman’s behalf. I think it is very unfair to be that stereotypical.

As with everything, some good, some bad. Can’t use one and say it applies to everyone.

You're reading what you want to read.

It is about CHOICE and respect for bodily autonomy. That consent is given freely and not under coercion or not at all only to be done against your will.

I don't care if a woman wants a c section. Heck I had in my preferences I know it could be a possibility please take XYZ into consideration.

Fact is they lied to me when baby wasn't ok for hours, that they put a probe in my body and lied in my chart I consented, that I didn't believe them when they told me (SHE HAS TO PUSH THREE HOURS FOR INSURANCE TO PAY FOR A C SECTION), then I was forced to say the words I consent with th blame on my body and not the drugs they didn't tell me I was on, that I told them I felt he come down and was ignored, that they make it so no doctor will let me VBAC...

You do you, I support that. But that's it, having the knowledge to make an educated decision and not have someone in a position of authority decide what will happen to you.

Just like I was coerced in to sex so many times, giving in to make them stop. Just like when I was raped.

 

[ilexvert]

You mean we have opinions and look at as many sides as possible, not just the bias that suits ourselves? Sure. That is the aim of this website, to not think negatively, to not use negative thinking styles, to look at things rationally with eyes as wide open as possible, to remove those annoying views we use that exacerbate our symptoms and only do us harm? OK!

PS. Most others responding are female. They too have vaginas and give birth. Just food for thought!

I think you have a problem. Nobody is saying what happened to you is not traumatic. I haven't read that. Hey, I'm just a male though and apparently have no clue about female issues (cough, father of 3). If this is the case, then only female doctors understand birth. Shit... so all those male gynaecologists are actually useless then?

You are using what's called, all or nothing thinking. It's all bad, or it's nothing. A few others too from the list.

Primary cognitive distortions (negative thinking styles)

Cognitive distortion forms the backbone of PTSD. Whether you know it or not, all moods and behavioral patterns originate from your cognitions-- your thoughts. The first thing that happens is a thought, and then a mood or behavior occurs. When you allow an area of your life to become dominated...

www.myptsd.com

You should stick to personal experience, as when you start showing Google research, that is the moment I think you're trolling, hence I have removed your links. Your trauma is your trauma, what happened to someone else has nothing to do with your experience. If one in every hundred births have issues, your focus it seems, is on that one birth, discarding that 99 are good with positive outcomes. Rhetorical illustrative figures. Even if it were one bad in every 10 births, that is still 9 good births with healthy babies and living mothers to raise that child.

Shit, I have supported you so far, but it seems as a male I have no idea. You don't like questions and are angry. You need to get control of your anger. It is your problem, nobody else. Only you can help you. What you write here will attract diverse opinions and experience, globally. It seems you just want yes people though, not honest opinions and diverse experience.

Seriously this is so condescending.

Yes it matters what happened to someone else, to other women who have PTSD from birth trauma (specifically around unnecessary c sections). We exist in a legal grey area due to the legal precedent, set by politician John Edwards 1985 case, having the first successful case of using for failure to perform a c section. If the precedent is not there a lawyer will not take a case because thy need to win to make it with their while. It is very hard to bring a case against precedent.

Here's a peer reviewed source:
ttps://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1536504217714259

Maybe I need to spell it out more plainly. We all want what is best for our babies and with proper knowledge have the god given right to make choices about our bodies and have them be respected. When you're in the hospital that doesn't exist. Maybe most are lucky and aren't aware what happened or it wasn't that bad. Mine was as are many others and we can't do anything about it in a court of law when it is perfectly illegal.

Laws are laws and they aren't always upheld or abused by, this is falling through the cracks after something traumatic.

If you knew you didn't have the ability to sue if you had the possibility of ending up in my shoes or similar you wouldn't go. That if you say stop they won't stop, if you knew what they didn't and they wouldn't listen... That you lost the boundaries around your body and there is no recourse, here's a baby be grateful.

I'm sorry you can't seem to understand my pain.

 

[Charbella]

No one would go to a hospital for anything if they knew they had no legal recourse for forced or no consent.

I don’t know anyone who goes to a hospital thinking about it.

Plenty of people are forced to do things in a hospital, children, adults deemed unsafe, the elderly, those in medically compromised situations.

You say no one understands you but I don’t think that’s what you want. You want us to agree with your very polarized view. Sorry wrong forum.

I think what you went through is horrible and I wish you’d found what you sought through the legal system, but I doubt many would say they found it and it was worth it.

Personally I went through the legal system and the perp went to prison, died there. I still have PTSD, it didn’t help me in any way, his death made things worse for me.

If you want support for getting yourself out of the trauma hole your in, that’s this forum. If you want someone to listen and understand what you went through, this is the place. But if you want to throw out statements like don’t go to the hospital you’re asking for pushback. If you’re looking for someone who’s experienced something similar you might find it. @Rose White suggested finding that community to help you in your grief. Because around here we help those who want help.

I’m sorry you feel like no one hears you, lots of us feel that way.

 

[ilexvert]

I don’t know anyone who goes to a hospital thinking about it.

Plenty of people are forced to do things in a hospital, children, adults deemed unsafe, the elderly, those in medically compromised situations.

You say no one understands you but I don’t think that’s what you want. You want us to agree with your very polarized view. Sorry wrong forum.

I think what you went through is horrible and I wish you’d found what you sought through the legal system, but I doubt many would say they found it and it was worth it.

Personally I went through the legal system and the perp went to prison, died there. I still have PTSD, it didn’t help me in any way, his death made things worse for me.

If you want support for getting yourself out of the trauma hole your in, that’s this forum. If you want someone to listen and understand what you went through, this is the place. But if you want to throw out statements like don’t go to the hospital you’re asking for pushback. If you’re looking for someone who’s experienced something similar you might find it. @Rose White suggested finding that community to help you in your grief. Because around here we help those who want help.

I’m sorry you feel like no one hears you, lots of us feel that way.

That is the point.

You unknowingly relinquish control and we never consider the consequences.

Because if you did need to say no or stop what would happen if they ignored you? How could that compile over and over while you are there?

Or I guess the Grandaddy question... What is worse than losing your right to make decisions for yourself?

That is the line, that is the PTSD inducing line.

Pregnant and at your most vulnerable, wanting the best for you and your baby, you lose complete control when you need to be cared for and feel safe more than anything...and you realize it's been this whole time

I appreciate you having a more tactful response.

But my questions are in the original post not my first reply which has bogarted the conversation.

 

[Shaylee]

You're reading what you want to read.

Mmm no…. I am reading you have had a traumatic experience. Absolutely. For that I am so very sorry.
but I am also reading the “no one’s” (Or as Anthony said the all or nothing statements)

it's the FACT you have no rights when you go into labor and delivery.

If it was fact then I would have been forced to have 2 c-sections of my own, but was not, as I provided my own examples showing it is not fact.

If it was fact I would have been forced to have the intern touching me, but I was supported and I provided that example.

So, unfortunately, I would have say you are the one reading what you want to read and, with your current thinking, if it doesn’t fit in with your current mindset then that individual doesn’t understand nor know what they are talking about. However, I can’t agree with your statement of “fact” when it isn’t.

What is fact is I hope my more positive experiences will help alleviate some of concerns for the future.

We exist in a legal grey area

Regarding legality I was thinking of so many things/people can’t get that resolution. To whom it may not even be a gray area but not a matter with any recourse whatsoever. I hope it is something you can work through that and it gives you some of the peace you desire.