I’m Really Struggling With This… Guns On College Campuses

[mysihba]

Good. I think I was trying to make the point of "choosing not to be a victim" more than anything, as well as living in a state of denial that bad things don't happen, even if your fist is the only "weapon" one has. I would almost trade in my guns for a real soul mate in Australia lol.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Happy Head]

My understanding was that Texas also has one of the lowest death rates for gun violence, because it allows people to openly display and carry arms! I believe the psychology behind it, which is proven to my knowledge, is that firstly you risk being immediately shot by another if you pull a weapon on someone, secondly, the state has the death penalty for anyone killing another intentionally. Is this correct from what I have read previously?

Currently in Texas you cannot openly carry them (thank god for me, I would have to move out of the state ) And yes, the death penalty is here too - but many other states as well.

Although I now wish I lived in Australia, I am not totally against gun ownership. I think they have their place (hunting, sport shooting and the like... even in the home in certain instances)... but on campus, where we are supposed to provide a safe, unthreatening learning environment is not the place IMHO. There are way too many factors:

• students threatening teachers even by the sake of mentioning that they are packing - thus resulting in grade inflation and the like
• students threatening other students - even unintentionally. Some students just saying that they are packing as a side remark for no apparent reason may make others feel uncomfortable
• alcohol - my university, along with many others, have bars on campus - and of course drinking in dorms. alcohol and guns DO NOT mix...
• If there is an active shooter, and someone rises up in self defense, the first responders to the incident are not confused in the chaos as to who the bad guy is...

I could go on... but if we are looking at odds and statistics... more kids die on college campuses in a year from alcohol poisoning than all school shootings combined. The threat of an active shooter isn't high enough to justify the fear and potential danger that would be permitted by having hundreds walking around with guns on a "safe learning" campus....

 

[No Folded Hands]

As we were probably all taught in our respective english classes, removing one phrase of a sentence from the sentence can change the meaning completely.

"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

very obviously, to anyone remembering those classes and the language tenets taught in them, not the same as:

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It is not only disrespectful but misleading to claim that "it's pretty clear unless one is simply against gun ownership". It is not, however, unexpected, as I personally have seen and heard this sort of thing again and again over the past decades.

No one, including anyone who misquotes the sentence, had the slightest right to carry a gun around me in this country for any purpose other than law enforcement --and that only if he or she is an actual law enforcement officer. Or are we also going to debate the thought that only those who wish to carry deadly weapons for no reason whatsoever other than "nyah! I can so!" have more rights, including those to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, than anyone else?

It is not legal to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater either, despite the amendment that ensures freedom of speech.

I will not be reading or posting anymore in this thread. I don't feel inclined to handle more than one pointed insult.

 

[Innordinate]

I see only one point to owning a handgun, and like I said earlier, I owned one. Stupid really.
One point to having a handgun since it's not effective for hunting animals, only people.
Thus the only reason- to kill people.
For people who want it as a defense weapon, as soon as you pull out a gun you're more likely to die than if you hadn't.
There's enough death and violence in this world without guns. I think we're all proof of that and I don't believe if any of us had guns at any given time would we be any safer than we were/are now. Just more likely to be dead.

 

[becvan]

Being in Canada I find the whole I must own handguns very very strange. To me there is only three reasons to own guns; hunting, law enforecment and crime.

Back to the thread, I would refuse to go to any campus that allowed concealed weapons. Let's see, we will mix, young adults, high alcohol usage and concealed weapons! No thanks.

bec

 

[seedling]

I have another reason to own a gun. They are fun! Fun to take to the target range and shoot. I've enjoyed this many times. We have a great range near us and enjoy going.

Sometimes just to blast the heck out of cans etc. Sometimes to get as good as we can with iron sights and long distance. There are lots of reasons people enjoy owning guns.

 

[Happy Head]

Note to self: When I graduate move to Canada or Australia.

 

[Innordinate]

You can do target practice and shoot cans with bb guns, pellet guns, sling shots, paintball guns. And yes, they are still weapons, but so's a spoon if you use it right.
The difference being you're more likely to survive one shot from a pellet gun etc than you are a gun.

 

[mysihba]

And those with opposing views will not even consider my view point. That is the problem. Civil conversation about opposing views does not happen with anti-gun people. I don't think this is a good forum for this debate and has gotten well away from my main point. Most of us are "victims" of one kind or another. Most of us have to get out of "victim" mentality and into "survivor" mentality to get better. Getting rid of irrational fears is part of the process as is learning how to "not become a victim" for many.

I would love to take on this debate, but as i stated earlier i will not debate single minded people that have no interest in hearing the other side and doing it with respect.

I've seen more people die from baseball bats, pieces of pipes, knives, cars, hammers...etc than guns.

 

[Innordinate]

i dont see this as being uncivil. *Shrugs*

 

[Happy Head]

And those with opposing views will not even consider my view point. That is the problem. Civil conversation about opposing views does not happen with anti-gun people. I don't think this is a good forum for this debate and has gotten well away from my main point. Most of us are "victims" of one kind or another. Most of us have to get out of "victim" mentality and into "survivor" mentality to get better. Getting rid of irrational fears is part of the process as is learning how to "not become a victim" for many.

I would love to take on this debate, but as i stated earlier i will not debate single minded people that have no interest in hearing the other side and doing it with respect.

I've already said that I am not totally "anti-gun" - they have their place (hunting, sport shooting etc). My argument is that their place is not a college campus. And again, as I've alredy stated, this is nothing to do with me being a "victim" of gun violence. I still choose to go to grocery stores, movie theaters and the like that allow guns. I'm not holed up in my house afraid to leave. In fact, I'm not originally from Texas, I moved down here - by 100% choice - knowing that there was a conceal/carry law in place. The "debate" (though I like to think of it as a conversation) started soley on the topic of college campuses...

 

[catjudo]

I'm not saying that I support guns on college campuses, however I'm not completely clear on how keeping them off of campuses really solves the issues that you are citing. I think the argument that students may inflate their grades or intimidate professors/other students is just playing on people's fears but not, IMHO, an argument based on reality.

I grew up in a college town. A college campus is a small city within a city. In my experience, the majority of students don't live on campus. If a person is the type of person who would use a gun to intimidate or threaten professors or other students, they can accomplish this just as easily off campus as they can on campus.

The reason I believe this forum is not a great place for this debate is because it is a worldwide forum and people in other countries have a difficult time fully understanding the issues at hand because their societies differ so greatly in regards to gun ownership.