Preverbal Trauma - Infancy

[Linda Lee Bogard - King]

Okay, maybe this might add some insight. I was nine months pregnant when I witnessed the shooting death of my husband, that baby heard the gunshot, the screams and felt my sorrow. She was born nearly a month late and wouldn't come out because I didn't want to deliver. She was twisted and her shoulder was stuck, they knocked me out. Now, here comes the good stuff ... For seven months after she was born that baby screamed in terror when she heard a man's voice. When she was 17, the police brought her home. They found her on a corner crying about losing her father, the police thought he had JUST DIED. It hit me hard. She had been traumatized. I NEVER talked about her father and the shooting. It was too hard for me and then I remarried and who wants to hear about another man, right? So, this came from within her. There were other issues, too while growing up for her - she still has major abandonment issues, though I was always there, home. The unborn are affected by the mother's emotions.

 

[i think its very sad]

As well as I can make out, I had to be less than 6 months old. I could not roll over or sit up. As far as I know I was never tied up. Its confusing; how can a baby that young understand what she was saying. I have spent my entire life to trying to agree with everyone that Im just being too sensitive and that I was not ever abused. No one who knew Mother would ever believe she did anything but be the perfect mom. She wouldnt have done it in front of anyone. My brother died when I was 17. Is it important to resolve memories like this?

 

[allitherapy]

Okay, maybe this might add some insight. I was nine months pregnant when I witnessed the shooting death of my husband, that baby heard the gunshot, the screams and felt my sorrow. She was born nearly a month late and wouldn't come out because I didn't want to deliver.The unborn are affected by the mother's emotions.

First of all, a baby is going to come whether you want it to or not. It is actually the baby who decides when to be born, not the mother. The baby sends hormonal cues to the mother to start contractions when the lungs are fully developed. This is what triggers birth, not anything emotional on either part (especially the fetus, since the fetus has no emotion). Second point, you said it yourself: the unborn are affected by the mother's emotions. THIS is why your daughter experienced the range of emotions that she did. You were likely going through your own emotions immediately following her birth and for most of her life. As much as you may have tried to hide it from her or not talk about, children are very keen and can sense things. The baby screamed when she heard a man's voice probably because male voices are scary to a baby who has only heard a female voice. Babies by nature prefer a female, calm, nurturing voice. Their ears and auditory system are not developed enough to tolerate the deep, loud, male voices. Babies exposed to their father's voice every day get used to it and understand that this person is safe. Your daughter didn't have that and that explains her strong reaction to male voices. As for her sense of abandonment, she grew up without a father and didn't know why. That is enough to make any child feel abandoned.
Again, a baby's brain cannot, has not, and will not ever be able to form memories. The structures are just not there. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but you can't argue with science. This is the same as saying someone born without legs could walk - it just can't happen.

 

[allitherapy]

I I remember being in my crib and not being able to get up; so I assume I was pretty young. I was really hungry and I was crying for my bottle. My mother kept coming in there & telling me that I was not going to get anything until I stopped crying. She came back several times & repeated that and finally I was able with great effort to stop crying. I dont know if it matters if its true or not and it is consistent with my mother's way of doing things.

I would be very interested to know how old you were and if these memories could be verified by anyone who was present. At 4 months a baby is just learning to respond to his own name and at 7-12 months understands simple commands such as, "no" or "stop". By 18 months, a toddler understands and should use around 150 words. The level of language development you're describing would put you in toddlerhood. You say you couldn't move, which makes you think you were very young, but the language piece just really doesn't fit. I'm not saying this didn't happen, but maybe it didn't happen the way you think. Maybe you were 2, 3, or even 4 and were afraid to move . The only way to really know what happened is to ask someone who was there. All I'm saying is that what you're describing and attributing to a 6 month old is highly unlikely, unless you have a superbrain, in which good for you!

 

[i think its very sad]

I guess the question now is, is it unusual for people who suffered trauma throughout childhood to have these illogical & improbable memories thrown in with all the other stuff that actually did have to have happened?

 

[allitherapy]

I personally don't buy into the whole IQ thing very much. Technically speaking, I am a genius as well. I think you can have a genius IQ and have no common sense and be functionally an idiot. Getting back, a baby could read at 1, I don't doubt that. 1 is only a few months earlier than the average of 18 months for a 150 word vocabulary, but it's unlikely that there was comprehension. At 6 months though your brain can't understand adult language to the level you're describing. It doesn't matter how much of a genius you are, the structures aren't physically there. Anyway, at 60 years old your life is NOT over! You can find a therapist who can help you; it's not too late. The mental health industry is very different now than it was 40 years ago. You CAN be helped, but you have to WANT that help. I don't think the specific memory is as important as validating your trauma for yourself and figuring out how your experiences influence your life now.

 

[i think its very sad]

You are right, im confused about what matters. It is part of my background, its not realtive, and this is no place to discuss intelligence levels. In my experience it only means that you can do well at school very easily and that developmentally you are advanced. thats all it is. im going to have that post removed. Im an idiot for posting it. Im trying to find another therapist but its very difficult right now. Ive been working on this most of my life with very little progress.

 

[i think its very sad]

One thing that makes it so difficult is all of this isolating. I've been trying to call the pharmacy to see if a prescription for another snri is ready. I took 3 different ones in the past year and none of them helped. I just dont think I can make it to the pharmacy if it is ready. It can take 6 months for me to call the dr, make an appointment and go. Im so depressed, I cant even act normal anymore.

 

[Abbi]

Ok, can we look at this subject of 'baby' trauma a different way perhaps? Ok if some of you believe you or loved ones have infantile or even pre-birth trauma so be it. Others point to science that says, well just not possible. Agree that the two points will disagree, you are going to carry your beliefs or not.

How about this thread take a different turn. What are you doing for yourself now? Have you had a thorough mental health evaluation so you and your mental health care providers know exactly what you are dealing with? Have you provided them with as thorough a history of prior treatment as possible? Do you have memories that you feel more "sure" about than these infant ones. Have you discussed this with your therapist? Has your therapist communicated that you are ready to process any trauma's ? If not, what work needs to be done?

For me, my time for "self reflection" and esoteric discursiveness, is after I have put in place the "basics" of recovery; current diagnosis, medical supervision of any medication/support in a timely manner, ongoing therapy needs being met by competent clinician.

Sad, if it is taking you 6 months to call a doctor, you may be in need of more intervention/services/professional support than you presently have. If it is taking you 6 months to call the doc, who is following your medications to even know if they remain appropriate/helpful for you.

Don't get/remain stuck. If you have not completed or even started the basics above I would encourage you, with all the empathy and compassion I can, to do so. In the process you may gain insight that will ease or put to rest some of these concerns.

Wishing you luck and motivation in your journey.

 

[Linda Lee Bogard - King]

Pardon me, allitherapy but, you are trying to hard to be textbook and life isn't. I should have been accurate. Yes, babies will arrive whether we want them to or not. And, yes the baby sends hormonal signals to the mother for the delivery - most times. Yet, it is true; Doctors are known to induce deliveries - so the baby or mother had nothing to do with it, right? And, premature babies? Their lungs are not develop so, the signals must have gotten crossed? My point is: Even science has discovered at times there may be an exception to their theories and the so called 'rule.'

She was the only child to react to a man's voice in the manner she did because that night she heard the men screaming and the gunfire. Of my four children she screamed at all male voices from day one except for my father's voice. The skin is thin - the baby heard it all... I never said anything about memories. Feelings, emotions are what she felt from within me. I have been aware of that since 1974. I have four children by two fathers both died young 24 and 31. Only one child suffered from abandonment due to her circumstances. It hit her the hardest. How many children do you have?

P.S. just the very nature of science is cause for debate. Scientists argue all the time. Life is not an exact science because everybody is unique.

 

[allitherapy]

Hi Linda,
I'm not trying to be textbook, I'm just sharing the information that I have. The baby always sends signals when ready to be born in normal situations. That is what I was referring to. The situations you're bringing up aren't normal scenarios. Of course labor can be induced and of course babies are born prematurely, usually due to something going wrong on the maternal end. I was strictly speaking about normal situations; I should have clarified that.
Your baby did experience something that night. The unborn child can hear in the womb and I'm sure she had the very unfortunate experience of hearing the same you did that night. The unborn child cannot, however, process emotion. Your daughter would have received increased stress hormones at that time from your increased level. This would induce her body to increase production of these hormones as well. Her body learned that loud sounds or screams mean stress. Repeat exposure to those stimuli would cause a similar response. This is an instinct-based response, not an emotional response. If she didn't know that man was her father, the event would have no way of leading to abandonment issues. Growing up without a biological father with no explanation would.

I am not trying to offend; rather to offer the information that I have. If you choose to ignore it, so be it. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I am well aware that life is not an exact science. I have been through enough in my life to understand that. I don't have any children and I'm not sure why that was asked or how that would change the knowledge I have. Best to you and your children; I hope you are all able to find peace and healing.

 

[anthony]

Body tissue memory is different, and science has no real scope on that subject, other that they know it happens. The brain is a big tissue... and they don't understand that either. Memory is different to body tissue memory in relation to trauma. The brain is also different to memory, when in discussion.