Guilting Someone Into Not Suiciding! What Are Your Thoughts?

[Philippa]

I just finished having a debate with my brother about whether it is a valid method of keeping someone alive or not.

He believes that if it helps the person to stop and seek treatment because they don't want to hurt their loved ones, then it's a good thing.

I think that it only serves to make the person, who is already in a great deal of pain to get to that point in the first place, feel even worse and is basically black magic to control anyone through the use of guilt. It is the individual's own personal choice as to whether or not they want to continue to live or not...and that's that.

Yes, it does cause a lot of pain for the people around the person who is suicidal, and that is awful. I don't believe that forcing someone to stay alive just so other people can be happy is very fair on the person suffering though. That isn't living, it is choosing to remain here for other people, not for ones Self. That seems really wrong to me, and very selfish of the family/friend/lovers for expecting it.

I realize it is a controversial subject of course, and that some people on this forum have probably lost loved ones to suicide, and been horribly messed up by it. It might be the reason they are here on this forum? I mean no offense to them of course, just stating my opinion.

I'm interested to hear what all you lovely folk think though...

Is it really selfish to suicide, or is it selfish of the people who know the person to expect him/her to stay alive for them?

Are suicidal people really cowards...or just people in pain who don't know what else to do and who can't think of anything else but ending the pain they are in?

 

[sisu]

IMHO...
I believe it is selfish for someone to commit suicide. When they are in that moment of dispair - the only thing they are thinking about is themselves and a way to end their pain. They are not thinking about their parents, other family, friends, children, etc. They are thinking about themselves, period. They are not thinking about the pain it will cause others, the guilt others will feel - and the possible lifetime effects it could have on those who love them. I know people who have NEVER recovered from the suicide of someone they loved.

I don't know about the coward part - mental and physical pain can be hell so I'm just not sure about that one.

 

[Philippa]

thankyou sisu.

I suppose it is such a state of mind the person is in when they are like that, that it becomes hard to think about anything but the pain they are in.

That is the definition of selfish, I just think that they get to such a desperate point where all they can think of is ending the pain they are in because it's unbearable. I think that is understandable. That doesn't make it ok to create such extreme pain in others, and I don't think that is the intent of the person, they just reach their absolute limits and don't see any other way out of the hell they are in.

I guess trying to understand it from their point of view is one way of possibly preventing it happening, by learning how to really connect with someone in that situation. I don't think making them feel guilty is an effective way of 'helping' them though. Prevention is always the best cure though, and maybe it could be prevented if people would learn how to listen.

I know that it leaves a lot of devastation in it's wake, and those people are left to pick up the pieces...it's just a terrible situation all round.

 

[sisu]

I agree with you - guilt trips would not be a good way to help them through. Guilt is just another type of manipulation which is never a good thing.

I wish people just never got to the place where they want to end their lives that way. But when the voices won't stop or the pain won't stop, I am sure it would cross your mind. I think you are right about listening and connecting with them before it gets to that point. And if you are that connected you may see or hear the warning signs before it ever gets that far. Also, if they are able to stay engaged in activities with friends and family AND able to stay present during those times, it would be less likely they would want to leave or end it all. Maybe felt like their life has purpose - stay busy with activity of some sort.

I don't know. A very tough and interesting subject. My BF is not suicidal, but has said he lives a suicidal life. What he means by that is that he would never kill himself (for many reasons) but it doesn't take away the suicidal feelings he has...for him the war has never stopped even though he has been home for more that 7 years.

 

[freakofnurture]

Depression is a cancer of the psyche. Sometimes it's deadly.

I think, as a friend, you have an obligation to help a suicidal person work through their death wish to find out if it's a 'spur of the moment' thing, or if they are really in such a bad shape and so exhausted and out of options that no one could expect them to want to drag on. Of course you have to try to help them snap out of it. But if they don't, they don't, and you have to respect their right to their own life and death.

Some say, if a person talks to you about their suicidal ideation, they want you to stop them. I say, it's a sign of trust that they do it, and they want you to be there for them in their pain. If you try to emotionally manipulate them in their most vulnerable state, you are doing them a disservice and you're unworthy of their trust. If their death wish is genuine, they'll kill themselves anyways, sooner or later, but then they'll do it without having confided in you, and they'll get there feeling like a criminal.

I believe it's true that you can't save someone who really really really wants to kill themselves. But you can be a trustworthy, respectful friend who helps them find clarity and certainty about what they really want in the long term.

I believe it is selfish for someone to commit suicide. (...) They are not thinking about their parents, other family, friends, children, etc. They are thinking about themselves, period.

You have never been suicidal, I guess.

Suicide isn't a selfish act at all! They do think about the people around them, and they come to the conclusion that: "They'll all be happier without me. Sure, it'll hurt for a while (or at least they'll act like it hurts because they have to keep up the facade that they loved me), but they'll get over it and their lives will be so much better without the burden that I am. The whole world will be a better place as soon as I am no longer there to interrupt things."

 

[anthony]

IMHO, suicide can be a tricky subject based on beliefs.

Is it right to commit suicide because you've had enough of the world? IMO, NO. That is selfish... because all you do is hurt everyone you leave behind due to your selfish needs for an easy out.

So what is the real question! Well, the real question is why does the person want to die versus what is the pain they are feeling and their circumstances?

If you have an 80 year old who has lived a full life, are in constant pain and dieing already and they want to die now to not suffer such pain, then I think suicide is appropriate... usually that infers helping the person to take their life... illegal in many countries / states though.

Should this approach be taken to a 20, 30, 40, 50 or 60 year old, who is in pain mentally? Not in my opinion. Because the person can relieve mental pain. Physical pain is different... but still, even with physical pain, it can be managed if young and still a lot of life to live with open and unknown possibilities in the future to have the issue corrected, to continue the rest of life without the pain.

Taking your own life is selfish... someone guilting another person from it, isn't a fix either, as the person will just say nothing at all and do it quietly instead. Hence why when a person stops talking about it and goes quiet, like everything is good... that is when you worry.

 

[anthony]

You have never been suicidal, I guess.

Suicide isn't a selfish act at all! They do think about the people around them, and they come to the conclusion that: "They'll all be happier without me. Sure, it'll hurt for a while (or at least they'll act like it hurts because they have to keep up the facade that they loved me), but they'll get over it and their lives will be so much better without the burden that I am. The whole world will be a better place as soon as I am no longer there to interrupt things."

Been there, tried it... honest end result, I was being selfish and really wasn't thinking about others at all, just myself.

 

[freakofnurture]

Taking your own life is selfish...

Isn't it selfish of the people around you to want you to keep on suffering, just so they don't have to go through a grieving process?

A person isn't a pet that you keep.

 

[anthony]

They're not suicidal, I was. You cannot blame a person who is living their life, normally, as being selfish for wanting to have you around as part of their life, without death as a natural circumstance.

No, that is not their fault. That is blaming others for your own actions.

 

[freakofnurture]

Been there, tried it... honest end result, I was being selfish and really wasn't thinking about others at all, just myself.

Good for you to come to that conclusion and keep on living.

I wanted to die because I had no right to live and everybody hated me and would be happy if I were gone.

I didn't kill myself for the selfish reason of wanting to write more stories and feel happy again; f*ck what the world thinks!

 

[freakofnurture]

That is blaming others for your own actions.

I'm not blaming them for any of my actions. I'm blaming them for making me feel like am damned to suffer till age 80 because I have no right to cause them the grieve of losing me.

EDIT: Who has a right to cause other people suffering anyways? No one. But to have a sick, suffering person drag on, wheezing and crying and emotionally dead, that's just cruel.

 

[unalaa]

I'm not blaming them for any of my actions. I'm blaming them for making me feel like am damned to suffer till age 80 because I have no right to cause them the grieve of losing me.

No one can make you feel anything. They can tell you how they feel and you can choose how you respond, if you choose to respond at all. The choice both starts and ends with you.