Treading Dangerously?!

[Nicolette]

Maybe we should have a new thread of "Things to do today".

Maybe "Things I'd like to do (get done?) today" and leave the 'Goal of the Day' for something a little more significant that is related to a little bit beyond the mundane. Eg if you already cope with personal hygiene 'wash my hair' would be a 'to do' item but if barely showering then it would be a 'goal' and then we could all assess what needed encouragement (responding accordingly)?

 

[Nicolette]

Maybe I misunderstood the initial post? I interpretted nicolette feeling frustrated that people were not moving forward enough...which, to me indicated impatience.

Here is a classic example of what I was trying not to do - make an assumption hence me asking all the questions within this thread to try and get a feel for the difference between someone really trying and someone just going through the motions with little success but maybe we are heading in that direction now? I'm not sure.

I can understand the impatience of the people running the show here, and seeing the same people stuck and not moving forward, but I also think it can be easily forgotten once a person is doing well, how hard it can be to get up and do the little things when you're in that state, and how it may seem like small goals to outsiders, but it's a huge leap when you're in the thick of it...so some perspective is always a good thing.

Philippa you did what some members do; you came in part way through a conversation, read a bit, formulated your opinion based on what you read and then came to the conclusion that it "indicated impatience" on my behalf but used the words 'people running the show'. Please remember I am a member too and also that I was asking so I could respond more appropriately and not just based on my assumption (which is all I can do without information) of a person's position from however much they shared on the forum. I ignored your response as I didn't want to ruffle feathers but sometimes it is interesting to note that we are just as guilty of what we criticize others of as I was trying to obtain a greater perspective!

I just wasn't sure if the full scale of what some people are going through had been taken into account, that's all.

How can one do this without asking - which is what I did.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Nicolette, if it's ok for me to offer some advice.

I think it is very valid to ask questions. And I think you did the right thing in asking.

But the way in which you ask questions will influence the way in which people respond.

There are explorative questions, such as, "if your daily goal is getting dressed, what is your bigger life goal?" or "do you find yourself stagnating with small goals and ignoring the bigger goals you could go for in life?".

These questions enable people to explore ideas that may never have occurred to them before.

Then there are provocative questions such as "do some of you actually put yourself in the third person and read your own posts?" or "doing little more than climbing out of bed isn't really healing is it?"

These questions challenge people. They push the buttons that wake people up and get them arguing for their own point of view. They are often used in an intellectual setting to provoke more passionate viewpoints.

Both ways of questioning can be equally healthy.

But as the questioner you are inviting the interaction. So it helps to acknowledge the style of questions that you have chosen to use and the response that that style invites.

When you do that you can work with what the responses bring. For example, you can ask why a person feels that way, and that enables the person to explore their emotional reaction further.

I don't know if one way is better for people with PTSD or not. But I think an understanding of questioning styles is beneficial for anyone who benefits from asking questions.

 

[Nicolette]

Fair point Meadowsweet but anything is easy when you look with hindsight at reactions, when at the time, based on where I sit in life, they were not 'challenging' questions from my point of view.

I have felt throughout this thread that I am the student being told by the 'teacher' how it is best I approach everything, having it pointed out to me what I've said wrong or could have done better.

In my opinion you forget one fundamental flaw in applying questioning and analysis in this situation ...... I am dealing with people who have PTSD so one day I can ask a question and get an honest response and the next day I cannot with triggering a negative response.

It's really easy to tell me to understand a questioning technique but, as stated, I didn't know what I was searching for and I have since determined from my own assessment that one difference is in interpretation - for me it is between goals and 'things to do' which varies from others who have posted. I know that if I asked my friends

"do some of you actually put yourself in the third person and read your own posts?" or "doing little more than climbing out of bed isn't really healing is it?"

it would invoke self analysis and an interesting discussion if all were being honest with themselves.

Thank you for your advice but at least I tried where no one else has.

I also don't see you asking me any questions to determine what I was trying to understand and instead feel 'corrected' by your advice throughout this thread. I also feel you only pick on the comments or questions you deem unfavourable and dismiss some of the good that has come out of this.

Nicolette, if it's ok for me to offer some advice.

IMHO this is not asking me a question - it is provoking me as you then go on and tell me your advice in a manner which I find intellectually condescending.

 

[Nicolette]

There are explorative questions, such as, "if your daily goal is getting dressed, what is your bigger life goal?" or "do you find yourself stagnating with small goals and ignoring the bigger goals you could go for in life?".

These questions enable people to explore ideas that may never have occurred to them before.

But it has been made very clear to me that a daily goal of getting dressed can be someone's bigger goal dependent on the level a person is suffering.

It has also been made clear that stagnating is sometimes an unwise choice of words as someone might be stuck with the same goal suffering a bout of depression and, as said numerous times in this thread, everyone's healing is in their own time.

I seriously was well intentioned, wanted to learn and came back trying to offer what I could contribute which was my goals in pictures which has since taken off as another positive thread.

I have to walk away from this now as I feel that no matter which way I turn I have no hope of understanding anything any better and regret my attempt of doing so. :banghead: :stop:

 

[Abrasky]

This is my personal opinion as I just found this thread, and I have had a lot of success in the past before I got PTSD, getting distinctions at uni, winning trophies ect and having leadership roles before PTSD. I guess there are different levels of goals, end goals and sub goals to achieve end goals. The sub goals may help achieve end goals and can include councelling to get better. Even if it is dragging oneself to 13 years of therapy, if that is what it takes. It is good thread though, because it is a topic people often avoid, and is good to talk about.

I think little things are things are the things to be most proud of. Because it takes lots of little things to achieve a big over-all thing. Learning to achieve little things is still on the scale of achieving things, although it is at the other end. Any level of participating is good. I am as proud that I washed up for my family one dish-load of dishes when I was 19 despite being attacked for it for 19 years(that I still remember). as I did getting a distinction in Botany and Taxonomy. Achievement is a matter of perspective depending on what challenges you face doing it.

I think that PTSD is a bit like someone having a physical disability running in the olympics. They have to overcome such great obstacles with their physical disability to achieve the task of completing their sport. Achievement = not prestige of the achievement. Achievement =the meeting a goal over the difficulty of the achievement.

When I got PTSD when I was 19 it was harder for me to just get up and have a shower in the morning and have breakfast and clear the newspapers off the floor So with the challenges faced with PTSD, which feels like brain damage of a sort of emotional ' locked in syndome', little things may be more of an achievement than the big things. I suspect that without a broken knee someone could run in a race and get 1st place, but with a broken knee walking to the sink may be a lot harder and more of an achievement.

There is an interesting section in the book Daughters of narcisstic mothers that talks about how one person may have a narcisstic mother but may become an overachiever and the other daughter may become a self-sabateur. Having experienced both being an overachiever and a person who wanted to be a failure in my life-time I must say they both suck. Being in from a normal mother would be better.

I achieved working after 13 years of not working, but it is still hard for me to get ready in the morning. lol.

 

[Whitneys story]

But because of previous abuse, in my mind, these philosophies are tied in with shame, guilt, self blame.

((((((((((Meadowsweet))))))))))
I very much appreciate your sharing. I have been trying to understand how some can possibly feel as your
comment explains. Yes there will always be differences. So how can others help suffers that feel this way.

Have you found a way that you have come above this? I am not picking on anyone I just feel so bad that
this occurs. Thanks and Hugs Whitney:bookworm:

 

[Philippa]

Here is a classic example of what I was trying not to do - make an assumption hence me asking all the questions within this thread to try and get a feel for the difference between someone really trying and someone just going through the motions with little success but maybe we are heading in that direction now? I'm not sure.

I read your words in the first post, and you seemed to be saying that you didn't get how so many people could make what you consider to be 'small' goals into big ones. Is that an assumption? Yes, you were asking questions, and perhaps I didn't read them thoroughly enough and reacted?

Philippa you did what some members do; you came in part way through a conversation, read a bit, formulated your opinion based on what you read and then came to the conclusion that it "indicated impatience" on my behalf but used the words 'people running the show'.

I read your initial first post all the way through...that's not coming in half way through the conversation, that's reading the first post and misinterpretting what you meant. I didn't read the rest of the thread before I posted my response though. I don't think that's the same thing as just reading a few lines half way through the conversation.

I may not have used the best words to indicate that I thought you were being impatient by saying the people who ran the show, as that indicates everyone who is a mod and that's not the case, and I will be more careful with my words next time.

Please remember I am a member too and also that I was asking so I could respond more appropriately and not just based on my assumption (which is all I can do without information) of a person's position from however much they shared on the forum. I ignored your response as I didn't want to ruffle feathers but sometimes it is interesting to note that we are just as guilty of what we criticize others of as I was trying to obtain a greater perspective!

Yes, and I thought about it last night, and I am just as guilty of this I know, in other areas. I try to take my own advice wherever possible, as I know that what I say to others is probably what I need to hear myself.

I haven't forgotten that you are a member here, I just wanted to make sure that you were taking into account that many people are still struggling immensely, and that is no easy feat, which is why I tried to put in perspective the idea of 'small' goals, which you expressed perplexion of, and what is a large goal for someone suffering...that's all.

I wasn't try to ruffle feathers either, just maybe remind you that when you're in a better place, it's easy to forget what it's like in the thick of it. I didn't mean to offend you, if that is what happened?

How can one do this without asking - which is what I did.

Yes, you did. One can do this by casting your mind back to when you weren't able to get out of bed from being so depressed, and what an immense acheivement it was to just be able to stand upright and go make a cup of coffee or have a shower that day. Those are big things for people who are clinically depressed. I don't think you need to ask questions to appreciate it, you just need to put yourself in their shoes.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Nicolette, if you have felt a negative reaction to my advice, it is not how I gave it. You have made some wrong judgements of me.

I very rarely offer advice on this forum because I don't feel I have the understanding to do so. But also because I fear the reactions and the upset they cause to me.

But in the past the thought/expectation that I'm going to be attacked has influenced the way I interact and influenced the way I percieve the siuation.

The way you began your post is one of the negative thinking styles that I relate to.

I am now about to brace myself for an onslaught of defensive and probably attacking comments

Looking objectively at this kind of thinking style enables me to look at my own thinking, at a time when I'm not caught up in the emotion of the situation.

 

[Meadowsweet]

((((((((((Meadowsweet))))))))))
I very much appreciate your sharing. I have been trying to understand how some can possibly feel as your
comment explains. Yes there will always be differences. So how can others help suffers that feel this way.

These kind of teachings put on pictures are commnly used over the internet, sold as fridge magnets, car stickers etc.

I take them as lightheartedly as they are usually meant. They are words given with kindness, and I'm able to accept them as such.

 

[Whitneys story]

I think I have three books of what I call Quips. Little comments that are inspiring or helpful that I wrote down. The one book looks like it has been through a war. It alone is a reminder of how far I have come.

 

[Whitneys story]

As odd as it may seem I have actually found some peace from this thread. I was the supporter of my brother from the time I was four until his demise. I never had the option of not getting out of bed. Our father hated him, our mother enabled him; someone had to protect him.

He was older than I and could not see past his abuse. All he knew was negative, until the parents were gone. His defensive reactions became desire of a better existance. When someone is not guided in a positive direction how can they possibly know or feel anything else.

How does one know that an enabler is acting in ones best interest? If our minds are powerful enough to allow us to enter the black hole, how is it that we have such difficulty learning a way out?