Criterion A, Loopholes And Denial.

[Abstract]

I have been thinking and am coming to the conclusion that I may be using the more vague aspects of criterion A to fuel my continued denial, avoidance and self abuse.

I think having it spelled out would help me accept that I have either been misdiagnosed and I should leave this alone or give me something more concrete to fight the internal battle that continuously takes place inside me which seemingly occurs without my active participation.

Quote:
"Criterion A: stressor
The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:

The person has experienced, witnessed, or been confronted with an event or events that involve actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of oneself or others.
The person's response involved intense fear,helplessness, or horror. Note: in children, it may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behaviour."

What loopholes?
1. What constitutes "witnessed" in relation to PTSD and what does not?
2. What constitutes "confronted with" and what does not?
3. What constitutes "threatened" and what does not?
4. What constitutes "physical integrity" and what does not?
5. What happens if with one incident there is total removal of self through depersonalisation/dissociation (physically and emotionally) and therefore "intense helplessness" but possibly no "horror"?
6. How would neglect fit this or not (for my understanding rather than anything else)?

Clear examples of what would and would not fit would be helpful. As would explanations. How does age affect these or not according to the officials?

 

[Sandstone]

I think you are expressing something I often feel. Things that happened in, or were missing from our childhoods are harder to define as threats to physical integrity.

I'll try to explain how I think it goes for me. As a very small child/baby, my physical and emotional needs were all one. If I'd had a "normal" upbringing, the care I got would have helped me separate the two, and I'd have been able to divide the need for food and shelter, which was efficiently if grudgingly met, from the need for nuture and the L word. But I wasn't cherished, valued, supported, related to. I was just left to be.

Because the emotional and physical are still one, the faiure to meet my emotional needs is STILL a failure to meet physical needs. I'm still stuck in the baby experience of " I have a need, it's not being met, I'm abandoned and so I'm in danger"

So I have a condition that looks, walks and quacks like PTSD. And I'm sure it is PTSD.

It's easier for me to believe the diagnosis, because I've had other traumas in my childhood and adulthood, but I'm sure it began much earlier.

 

[Abstract]

Stenni, I think not being loved is a terrible thing for any child and I am sorry.

" I have a need, it's not being met, I'm abandoned and so I'm in danger"

I think this is relevant to what I was asking. Babies do need both to survive and it seems as a result the two are still entwined for you. That you feel properly threatened when you are feeling abandoned. Thats something interesting for me to think about. I am really sorry that is the case.

but I'm sure it began much earlier.

So if I am understanding you then you have more clear cut trauma's from later but that you really feel that PTSD started as a result of the neglect you experienced earlier. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Springer80]

5. What happens if with one incident there is total removal of self through depersonalisation/dissociation (physically and emotionally) and therefore "intense helplessness" but possibly no "horror"?

I don't get what your saying hear, because the complete removal of self is precipitated by horror, Flight/Fight/Freeze.

1. What constitutes "witnessed" in relation to PTSD and what does not?

Being in first person attendance at a horrific scene, fire crew, paramedic, watching a family member get shot and killed, watching your girlfriend getting raped etc

2. What constitutes "confronted with" and what does not?

I'm not sure how you would define he difference between confronted and witnessed? But to my mind witnessed is at the actual scene and being related to it in some way, friend, family, emergency services. Maybe confronted is bystander, stranger?

TRIGGER WARNING>.

What constitutes "threatened" and what does not?

Well they never killed the hostage Terry Waite but they threatened too repeatedly for six years whilst he was a hostage. My abuser used to tie me up, cut my clothes off, hand me a knife and give me the choice of committing attempted murder/murder or being raped, until I'd screamed myself unconscious. I don't know what happened after so technically i was just a threat.

 

[Springer80]

You know Abstract,

Denial in which direction? In that you keep telling yourself its not that bad when it is, so you can carry on. Or you feel you should be well on your way to recovery and your denying yourself progress somehow cos your scared?

 

[Abstract]

Thank you so much Springer. :)

Grief I wish I could just get over myself and actually say things directly and get over it. Hopefully I can come back and answer more directly.

Denial in which direction?

I am not someone who has ever thought that trauma was part of my story Springer. I have had a lot of therapy over the years and it and life eventually brought me to the point where my general dissociation levels started lifting and not long after certain symptoms worsened greatly (I think). Since then I have had a full scale war going on inside me that is relentless. I carry on and speak on here "as if" but mostly I still don't think this stuff has anything to do with me.

 

[Springer80]

Grief I wish I could just get over myself and actually say things directly and get over it. Hopefully I can come back and answer more directly.

Don't beat yourself up about it...you'll make yourself ill. :)

 

[rainy_daze]

The person has experienced, witnessed, or been confronted with an event or events that involve actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of oneself or others.
The person's response involved intense fear,helplessness, or horror. Note: in children, it may be expressed instead by disorganized or agitated behaviour."[/b]

Clear examples of what would and would not fit would be helpful. As would explanations. How does age affect these or not according to the officials?

I'm not sure how you would define he difference between confronted and witnessed? But to my mind witnessed is at the actual scene and being related to it in some way, friend, family, emergency services. Maybe confronted is bystander, stranger?

Confronted with: being told a family member or close friend has been murdered - which involves the enviornment/situation that that person is told in, as well as who by, timing, details etc. Reaction involving: fear, horror and helplessness. A scream that would not come out as it feels like it rips apart your insides.

I won't get onto it here as I do not think it is entirely appropriate to go into it on this thread in relation to the topic, but the above example is me.

I possibly had PTSD before then, I am discussing some of this in counselling at the moment; had an abusive parent and I felt great fear he would kill me or a family member if I said anything, because that is what he told me would happen. I worried and cried myself to sleep often, and often I never slept. Rigid awful rules with awful unspeakable things I had to do. That would be being a witness, as opposed to being confronted with, I think. The idea of threat to physical integrity can can be a lot of things I think, including neglect possibly, as well as abuse or even the threat of abuse - it is the trauma and the reaction to it is PTSD. Or PTSD begins to develop. Or it smacks you in the brain later on, with one final trauma that puts the dangerous poisonous icing on the stupid evil cake, and you're left in bits. That's what is good about healing and putting yourself back together, you start to feel whole again, and that you can live with the scars instead of feeling wounded.

Regarding age, I am not very sure what officials say, other than what is written in the criteria to diagnose. As far as I understand it, childern can act out trauma in play (I did), have nightmares (I did), diassociate or float out of their own body (I did). I think there are more answers to this on the forum somewhere.

It' s not nice to begin to acknowledge childhood as an adult, but I forgive myself for the fact that I am doing it now and letting the walls come down. The thngs that happened to me and the death of my friend, and the resulting fall out and combination of all of this combined, caused me to fall apart, if I was ever really together in the first place. Once tou deal with criterion A, the symptoms become more manageable. Someone correct me if it doesn't work that way.

I am slightly off topic, but you've got me thinking Abstract. Sorry for being emotionally heavy, it was necessary for my opinion and examples I think. Hope that helps Abstract.

If I may ask, why do you feel you have been misdiagnosed? If you fit the criterion and have had an expert diagnosis/fully qualified person speak to you, then you do have PTSD. Is it more about understanding if what happened/you witnessed/were confronted with (to use the criteria terms) fits the description?

 

[Springer80]

I am not someone who has ever thought that trauma was part of my story Springer.

OK, so why are you on here? and why go to therapy for years if there is no problem? Why were you dissocitaing. there must have been circumstances, an environment as a precursor to you reacting like you had to?

I have had a lot of therapy over the years....my general dissociation levels started lifting and not long after certain symptoms worsened greatly (I think). Since then I have had a full scale war going on inside me that is relentless. I carry on and speak on here "as if" but mostly I still don't think this stuff has anything to do with me.

Why is there a feeling of full scale war?

I think I went through a long stage of thinking research and intellectualizing and activity based on those things would get me over into constructing a life which was separate and distanced from the pain of it.

Denial operates on levels cos we cant cope with it all at once.

 

[Abstract]

Yikes. There is a chance that this thread could end up pushing me out of my limbo. I just hope I have the courage to stick with it.

Thanks Springer. If you want a slightly better picture and have loads of available concentration potential you could glimpse at my threat "Denial Of Dissociation, Flashbacks and Intrusions" in the dissociation section. Even that does not truly represent how crazy my internal battle is. Best I bite the bullet and discuss it as its another thing I am hiding from.

I was "convinced" that nothing has ever affected me and had even been very angry with therapists and then I found myself at this point where I could not say that any more. But anything I do or say that indicates that this stuff may be real or that some things may have affected me results in the most awful consequences. Its like a separate entity inside me (not literally) is out to destroy me. It belittles me, points out how ridiculous it all is etc. That I have factitious disorder. And when I attempt to leave everything and get on with my life as "there is nothing wrong with me" I find myself self injuring without feeling I have any control over it. I am sorry if that sounds totally crazy. I have always valued my strong rational mind and it is in there somewhere. I don't keep discussing it as I don't want to inflict it on people. Hearing the same thing over and over again is pretty pointless.

 

[Abstract]

I am slightly off topic, but you've got me thinking Abstract. Sorry for being emotionally heavy, it was necessary for my opinion and examples I think. Hope that helps Abstract.

If I may ask, why do you feel you have been misdiagnosed? If you fit the criterion and have had an expert diagnosis/fully qualified person speak to you, then you do have PTSD. Is it more about understanding if what happened/you witnessed/were confronted with (to use the criteria terms) fits the description

You are not at all off topic RainyDaze. Its very helpful to hear others stories and perspectives.

Hopefully my post above explains some of what you ask above. I become convinced I have lied to them; that I am making it all up or that they are not professional or many other possibilities. I can have a flashback and minutes later be convinced I have made that up. The only reason I can even discuss all this in this way is because I have moved on a lot all in all and things are calmer internally.

Hopefully I can come back and answer your other information later. Thanks.

 

[Abstract]

This is what happens. Just answering that much and saying what I have is causing a backlash. Extreme conviction that I have lied about everything. Serious self destructive impulses etc. It is impossible to put into words.