Criterion A, Loopholes And Denial.

[ninja]

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond again. I can certainly relate to all of the things you have written about and I am inspired by your courage to share them. You are incredibly sensitive and empathetic to everyone in your wording and responses, I want to make sure I am taking the same care when replying to you. :)

Just trying to find words for things that there are no words for really.

Aside from actually having to deal with the issues, this seems to be one of the more frustrating aspects? For a very long time I believed that I was a decent communicator, but I have since learned that I shut off my emotion and thus was not sharing vital pieces of information. Communicating with feeling is completely different :facepalm: and often leaves me without words. I feel like therapy is helping me learn this new language.

Our ability to adapt to less than ideal situations really captivates me. Being able to create normality out of abnormality is a survival skill, but it also kind of confuses the picture when we are removed from the situation? We don't often remember (intellectually) "normal" occurrences, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. Sometimes the only proof we have is the intensity and frequency of our emotions? It seems that our minds can dissociate but I believe that our bodies still react and remember... coincidentally leaving behind quite a journey for us to reconnect heart and head whilst also putting the pieces of the puzzle back together.

One of the biggest things I have learned is that I have to accept before I evaluate. I have to honor my body and allow myself the time it takes to get to the point of acceptance before the rest of me attacks it. Being patient with myself is really hard for me; sometimes I have to disconnect and pretend that I am taking care of a child. This helps give me enough time to process and feel before I add merciless logic, reason to the mix.

I forgot who told me this, but it completely resonated: emotions are our bodies thoughts... just as rational, just as logical as our minds. They are different languages, but one is neither inherently superior nor inferior to the other.

Another thing that helped me was to take away the label for a little while. My T did not overtly bring up PTSD until I communicated to her that I was ready to hear it. (She was/is doing trauma-based therapy with me the entire time though.) I thought I needed a label to get better... paradoxically, it was when I began to believe the opposite that I was able to confront and deal with the PTSD label. For the record, I'm still not sure I believe the dx. To me it feels like the label consumes all of me vs. only being a name for something that is haphazardly and intricately bound to everything and everywhere. :confused:

 

[Abstract]

Thank you Ninja! :)

I want to let it sink in a bit before replying but I just wanted to say that you bring up some very interesting points and it is helpful. Shall be back....

 

[Abstract]

Hi Ninja!

Please never feel you need to apologise or feel pressured to come back in a situation such as that. Thank you though. I appreciate it. Please don't feel you have to walk on eggshells around me either. Tougher than I seem. ;-)

Thank you for telling me you relate to some of it! It always helps me to know when that is the case.

this seems to be one of the more frustrating aspects?

Maybe it isn't so much that there are no words really. The most frightening part is that I seem to have so little control over it and that it is almost like I fall into this state of being and it takes me over. And that it is so illogical and contradictory. But attempting to put it into words is probably a good idea as maybe that is a start at getting some clarity in a situation that feelings nonsensical. But other than the actual experience of it? Maybe so. Words. The problem with it being so nonsensical is that I know my reality testing is off and that is scary. With or without the evaluating that is still the case.

For a very long time I believed that I was a decent communicator, but I have since learned that I shut off my emotion and thus was not sharing vital pieces of information. Communicating with feeling is completely different and often leaves me without words.

In a general context I very much relate to this! I am much better now but I was in therapy a long time without realising I really was saying very little. Many years. I started off almost totally silent in life in general; then became pretty good at communicating (I thought) and then realised that there were concrete walls surrounding me that nothing got through - both out and in when it came to emotions in some situation and my internal life and this stuff.

create normality out of abnormality is a survival skill, but it also kind of confuses the picture when we are removed from the situation?

Very interesting observation and beautifully put. When I am feeling calmer and kinder to myself more recently I do think this is a big part of this stuff for me.

One of the biggest things I have learned is that I have to accept before I evaluate. I have to honor my body and allow myself the time it takes to get to the point of acceptance before the rest of me attacks it. Being patient with myself is really hard for me; sometimes I have to disconnect and pretend that I am taking care of a child.

Thank you for sharing this! This is exactly what I have found the most helpful for all the day to day managing of my life and relationships! Every part of the above is something I could have written. It took a very long time to figure it out. Especially since I had so much CBT for so long which only exacerbated it all. It still takes a lot of effort not to default to how I dealt with myself in the past.

Part of getting to the better place that I presently am in certain respects (while other aspects are down the tubes) has happened as a result of 7 odd years of practising looking at and acknowledging emotions and trying to connect them to the experiences of the day in general. I love the analogy you shared about emotions. The bodies thoughts.

Mostly I have considered them as important signposts and mostly also thanks to dialectical behaviour therapy ad its teachings.

I will have to think if and how I can apply it to this particular situation. The problem comes with deciding what to accept and talk kindly to myself about. Do I accept that I am fine and was making it up because I needed attention and be kind to myself about that? Or do I accept that I am strong and nothing ever affected me? Or the others. Attempting to honour what I think or experience is totally confusing as I can have all of those happening at once and attempting to accept any seems to set off the others.

With this weird paradoxical internal war that seems to be a constant battle: I think maybe my default evaluating, quantifying mindset seems to add a burst of fuel to the process even though it isn't the problem. Maybe a little like putting down the fuel peddle on the car rather than it being the car itself.

It is possible that not having the label may have been helpful to me if realisations happened in a specific environment like you describe. With a long term therapist I trusted and who understood and was good with trauma and was addressing the problem with me. Sadly that didn't happen and it seems that if I leave the label aside I am back entirely in Not PTSD options A, B and C. The only thing tethering me to the possibility of getting help for this is the label. Sadly. It would be helpful if I could stop comparing my experiences to others experiences or finding ways to discount them in regard to criterion A so in that respect maybe it would be better to leave criterion A out entirely but I am not sure how to do that and still ignore the other scenarios that I seem to be drawn into.

But really looking at criteria A as I have here is the one more solid thing tethering me to the PTSD option which is the most likely way I will get myself into therapy again.

About labels: I have a love hate relationship with them. People are so very complex and multifaceted and a label can never ever encapsulate that. And I think that backfires badly at times. And somehow having a label encourages us to forget those complex facets. On the other hand I always seem to have such entrenched denial issues and problems communicating my symptoms that labels have proved to be one of the best means of getting appropriate help for me. That goes for other problems in the past such eating disorders and depression too.

Its like my principles and mindset believe one thing but somehow that one thing does not work for me on a practical level when it comes to getting help.

I feel like I have contradicted myself throughout here!:wacky: Crazy.:oops:

 

[ninja]

Tougher than I seem.

:) I am one of those crazy ones who believes that it takes great strength to communicate sensitivity. I really appreciate the care you take in crafting thoughtful, insightful and knowledgable responses to me and others. I have learned so much from them already!

But attempting to put it into words is probably a good idea

Thinking about this a little more I am inclined to agree with you. I think there may be some "pre-verbal" steps we can take to find enough clarity to express the feelings and thoughts with words. Non-verbal things like listening to music, painting, drawing, photography... I am primarily a visual thinker and so I understand this may not helpful for others.

concrete walls

Coming to this realization seems to be a particularly destabilizing experience? Lately I've been thinking about the difference between intellectual awareness of our emotions and emotional awareness of our emotions. I have done a huge whopping load of the former and near to nothing of the latter. It is quite confusing though... especially when one is intellectually aware of one's emotional awareness of one's emotions. :wacky: All of these things seem to get us further away from trusting ourselves, our resiliency, strength, conviction, etc.

The problem comes with deciding what to accept and talk kindly to myself about.

I also struggle with this. Maybe it might help to rephrase some of the thought "schemas?" (Forgive me if this is a bad way to describe them.) Instead of being fine you are better, and you are better not because nothing ever happened to begin with, but because you are strong and have done a lot of work? I expect myself to be strong enough to deflect all hurtful and damaging events, but the reality is that the strength I had was not the right variety. Abuse is not normal, regardless of the severity, thus we cannot expect ourselves to be able to deal with it! This was a revelation to me... as silly and obvious as it might sound.

paradoxical internal war

...and it makes you feel so crazy! I think it is imperative to find tools that help us get to a point where surrendering (not giving up) feels uncomfortable but not devastating. Maybe this is where therapy is helpful, assuming the therapist is a good one. ;)

 

[Abstract]

You are sweet Ninja. Sorry to be absent.

. especially when one is intellectually aware of one's emotional awareness of one's emotions. All of these things seem to get us further away from trusting ourselves, our resiliency, strength, conviction, etc.

Oh me too. :wacky: Sorry you understand this. Its really hard to get past it. But I think you should be proud that you have awareness of it now.

is not normal, regardless of the severity, thus we cannot expect ourselves to be able to deal with it! This was a revelation to me... as silly and obvious as it might sound.

Its not silly at all and is actually quite profound and helpful! So thank you.

rephrase some of the thought "schemas?

This is wise too. I think it is also sometimes black and white thinking for us isnt it?

I have to say though that although my general chaotic thoughts and self judgements are vulnerable to this type of dissection the particular madness that happens with this internal war doesn't seem to want to be governed by anything as rational as that.

Partly as it literally feels like having about 6 different thoughts happening at any one time simultaneously and all of them constantly changing. Partly as it feels apart from my conscious thoughts somehow. It feels like I am possessed and by more than one entity. If I had a visual it would be like seeing me sitting there staring vacantly into space and the surface of me bulging and bubbling similarly to how a blanket moves if two children are fighting under it. I feel like the blanket. And sometimes one of those bumps is even out to cause me physical harm.

But holding onto general realisations sometimes seems to influence it all so this thread has helped a little.

And saying that I have had a few days break from it. I did that research questionnaire and somehow it just seemed to numb that all out and leave me not doubting criteria a. And triggered as well. We shall see how this goes.

Maybe I am contradicting myself again.

Thank you for taking such care in answering me. And I hope you are doing Ok ish.