Sick Of The Term 'ptsd Is No Excuse'

[rightkindofme]

Yelling is not okay. Especially at children. Everyone does it according to various psychologists, but it still isn't okay in my opinion. So I changed it(which took work and time to do). But for a long time I had no idea I had this problem because PTSD sufferers often have outburts of anger and having a mental illness means you aren't always aware of your actions or their impact on those around you.

"PTSD is no excuse" for yelling at my kids, but yelling and losing my temper is part of my disorder and so it is understandable. Of course in spite of my disorder it is my responsibility to change behaviors that are not healthy as I become aware of them. But I have to be aware of them. That takes time and not being aware does not make a sufferer bad, unkind or selfish.

My therapist tells me that her most unhealthy clients are people whose parents never yelled at them. I kind of try to treat yelling like I think abortion should be treated: safe, legal, and rare. By safe (for yelling) I mean that no one is called names and no ones character is ever denigrated. So yelling should be something that is out-of-the-ordinary so the kids understand that it is a serious escalation. If you never escalate then kids tend to feel like you aren't invested in them.

I read a lot of psychology books about kids.

I hear you and I think I have similar experiences. I worry about yelling a lot too. It has been hard to keep it under control. I don't think I have it as under control as I want it. At this point I can usually choke myself off mid-sentence and apologize for raising my voice and "try again" in a better voice. (We say "try again" in our house all the time when someone whines or yells or is rude--that is our default way of asking for a different approach.)

I want to model that yelling is for danger or when something is seriously over the line. I yelled when the kid went into my room, climbed on my dresser, borrowed my diamond earrings... and lost one. I yelled that I was very upset and that the kid needed to leave my room and go to time out. Then I cried for a while. Then we talked about why it was special to me and why I am upset about it being gone. The yelling in the moment *did* show that there was a reason to really talk. Otherwise she would have blown me off.

At least, that is how I justify me-to-me. :)

I understand why you don't like the phrase "PTSD is no excuse." I can't find another way of forcing myself into the set of behaviors I want from me.

 

[nursenurse]

If I could make a "love" button, I would, Rightkindofme. It's the same old stuff, young people getting too involved much too early for any relationship, period. Things may get better, they may get worse, and they may stay the same. It does neither the sufferer nor the supporter any good for the supporter to play martyr to a set of circumstances that you can tell by their words will drown them and their partner in the very end.

I have my sufferer. We are going slowly. I have armed myself with enough info where he actually told someone that I know more about it than he does. We have laid our deal breakers out. There are a couple of things at play. He was diagnosed and treated many years ago, so is relatively stable. We both have a few years on us, thus some degree of maturity at hand. He still seeks help when needed.

Of course, nothing is perfect, we both carry baggage from previous relationships that I think affect us more than his PTSD. We are working through everything. We are not in a rebound relationship. We don't expect to change each other, but we expect to support the changes we want to make to ourselves.

If advice to supporters in the support forum seems harsh, it is because it has to be. People are seeking opinions and help, and it would do no one any good but to hear the honest truth from those who have been there. I equally support any sufferer here who seems to be in a bad relationship. Sometimes you both just have to cut your losses. Doesn't mean that anyone is unworthy or unloveable. That is just life.

 

[rightkindofme]

Hey, Loveneverfails--I think it is ok that you feel upset by hearing this. I'm not trying to say that "you shouldn't feel that way". I am trying to understand your point of view and seeing as I am almost certainly one of the people who gave the advice that bothered you I wanted to explain what I could.

I hope this feels like a conversation and not an attack.

 

[Loveneverfails]

There are too many other people out there to try dating. Why stay with a bad fit?

This is exactly what I mean. It's black and white thinking. And to a degree I do agree. In dating, that is certainly applicable. In marriage and families, work does need to be done even in non PTSD situations. We can't just drop everything because something isn't working for us or NO relationships would last into the long term.

 

[nursenurse]

But again, look at the target of the "move on" scenarios. Invariably young, stars in their eyes. Moving in after 30 minutes of dating. Or they have weeks or months of no contact. Then they see each other. All is well. Then weeks or months of no contact again. This isn't right in any relationship. If being with that person is not uplifting most of the time in its early stages, then it will be a drowner in the long term. In most cases, neither one seems to be ready for the relationship. Many have already done the research, and they still have a problem with how their sufferer is behaving. It is then time to walk. There isn't just one thing that we tell potential supporters to drop their sufferers for. It is the big picture we are looking at. For both parties concerned.

 

[rightkindofme]

And, let's be clear, sometimes we give bad advice. That does happen too.

 

[Loveneverfails]

I hope this feels like a conversation and not an attack.

Most of it feels like a conversation(and none of your posts have felt accusatory don't worry :) ) I also understand now that to a point this is a very sensitive subject somehow so people are going to take it personally.

I just feel like pointing out that a mental illness does mean we sometimes cannot control our actions and does mean that we are sometimes doing toxic things unintentionally is a very important factor in a lot of the conversations I see around here. Looking back at my own life I can point out phases of my disorder that wreaked havoc on my personal relationships and work relationships but I was untreated, undiagnosed and no where near the place I am now and so was not able to control myself. If my therapist hadn't believed in my capability to be a good and functional person, if he had just written me off as a selfish person just because I was acting in seemingly selfish ways, I shudder to think what would have happened.

 

[rightkindofme]

Looking back at my own life I can point out phases of my disorder that wreaked havoc on my personal relationships and work relationships but I was untreated, undiagnosed and no where near the place I am now and so was not able to control myself. If my therapist hadn't believed in my capability to be a good and functional person, if he had just written me off as a selfish person just because I was acting in seemingly selfish ways, I shudder to think what would have happened.

But a therapist is in a very different position. It *is* their place to support you such episodes. You are bloody well paying them to.

 

[nursenurse]

The important thing for me in saying yes or no to someone on the forum is, has the sufferer sought therapy, are they in therapy, or are they willing to seek therapy for themselves, and not because the supporter wanted them to. And i guess this is just one piece of the puzzle.

 

[HëllaBubz]

Knowing that my children have never done a gosh darned thing to me and knowing that I absolutely owe them a decent upbringing has been a glass of cold water to the face.

Now that I am pregnant, although we took steps to prevent it, this is now my driving force.....there is one thing to want to get better for you, then there is NEEDING to get better for a complete and utter INNOCENT.
And my job, through out my childhood, teen and current years has always been to do something to protect the innocent, where I can.

So yelling should be something that is out-of-the-ordinary so the kids understand that it is a serious escalation.

I must somewhat ashamedly mention that I use this technique on my partner.....he really does respond like a small child sometimes, in that he will push boundaries until you know that he's gone well over my 'warning zone', and into the 'going to flip my f*cking lid' zone. :banghead:
I don't think it's deliberate, it's almost as though it was something that hasn't been exercised in a healthy environment before, so now it is. :depressed:

Looking back at my own life I can point out phases of my disorder that wreaked havoc on my personal relationships and work relationships but I was untreated, undiagnosed and no where near the place I am now and so was not able to control myself.

*waves hand in air* Gotcha. my first return to work was like this. :bag:

It *is* their place to support you such episodes. You are bloody well paying them to.

Note to self, kick psych in shins. HARD.

If my therapist hadn't believed in my capability to be a good and functional person, if he had just written me off as a selfish person just because I was acting in seemingly selfish ways, I shudder to think what would have happened.

Thank God for our supporters eh? :tup:

 

[Loveneverfails]

It *is* their place to support you such episodes.

I feel like to a degree, in a marriage with children(depending of course on the severity of the problems) it is not out of place to expect support from your spouse as well. If you are doing things that are hurtful and are not facing up to them, I can understand the supporter needing distance. But again, I think there is a big difference between standing up for your boundaries and breaking up a family. At some level defending your boundaries might require walking away, but that is supposed to be a last resort, not one of your first choices.

or are they willing to seek therapy for themselves, and not because the supporter wanted them to

A VERY good and important point. I completely agree. If they are open to discussing their problems, that changes quite a bit.

And I'm just going to clarify again that when I hear 'PTSD is no excuse' around here, a lot of times it's being used in instances where it feels like a person is being told PTSD is no excuse for not acting normally. Expecting 'normal'(which I don't think exists anyway) behavior from a mentally ill person is setting both parties up for disappointment.

EDIT: And Gosh I just want to clarify too that I'm not attacking a supporters right to walk away. That is their choice at the end of the day and not open for our judgement. I am referring to people advising it before other options.

 

[Abstract]

posting in the supporters section??

Still going to come back to express my feelings on this but Bilby I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you read this in the supporters forum. When I posted it was not there. Read in that context it must have been upsetting reading.