Sick Of The Term 'ptsd Is No Excuse'

[Tinyflame]

I hope not to offend anyone, but this is something I have struggled with and still do for decades. I think personally for about 22 or 23 years I have worked very hard on understanding myself and managing my symptoms. I similarly (as a sufferer) have absorbed in the past more blame or abusive behaviour or maltreatment from others on those grounds than I should have. I am currently struggling with the acceptance of ptsd as a condition that does affect me, as others have said an 'illness'. As one who works with those who are ill, aged, palliative, or have traumatic brain injuries, I can say not all behaviour is excused without blame, but there may be greater patience or understanding given. That is, others can relate to or acknowledge the presence of fear, frustration etc, in the one affected (and their loved ones also).

I think as I grow older I realize all relationships have 3 'lives' as it were: the characteristics of each person, and the characteristics of their relationship- basic dyadic relations. I think communication, understanding, and (unfortunately) accomodation are key and central. As is responsibility, kindness and forgiveness too. And honesty. I can't see how I could comment when someone asks for advice in such a scenario, simply because there are so many unknown variables. And like loveneverfails said, problems and bumps that occur in every marriage (or relationship)regardless of ptsd.

I myself have been described by others as being a good partner or person, but I have to 'like' meadowsweet's #30 post many times- to be able to be understood enough and for it to be 'acceptable' enough for me to be myself, actually feels much safer and takes much less energy. But it does require that kind of accomodation by a 'supporter'. I don't believe that ends strong relationships if the person understands and can accept what ptsd is (or how I 'am', that is, how I am affected, even if I don't tell them I have ptsd), and what it is not. It is not a blanket excuse, but trying (my) hardest won't make it not exist either.

JMHO of course.

 

[Loveneverfails]

I can say not all behaviour is excused wihout blame, but there may be greater patience or understanding given. That is, others can relate to or acknowledge the presence of fear, frustration etc, in the one affected (and their loved ones also).

Such a great point and what I think I have been trying to say.

It is not a blanket excuse, but trying (my) hardest won't make it not exist either.

Again, wonderfully said.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thank you loveneverfails, that is how I interpreted it from the start.

 

[Nicolette]

So, is this really about Sufferers not liking Supporters being told to leave as, while being one such Sufferer, you want people to give you a chance and not just judge you on a diagnosis? I am just wondering as it started out about being about what is said to Supporters but I see it now leading to Sufferers actually exposing their true feelings in wanting to be understood and given a chance in a relationship that they themselves sometimes don't feel worthy of.

And before you judge me as 'a Supporter' I am married to a man who has PTSD, I met him when he had PTSD, I love him but I detest the illness at times, and have learned as much as I possibly can to Support but not enable bad behaviour. There are days where I want to leave but I love him so I will not unless he breaks my most precious boundaries.

See, from what I have read over the years is that a Sufferer is often hardest on themselves, their own worst critic and themselves diminish their worth. From knowing that and thinking about this all day I am going to ask does reading "PTSD is no excuse" push buttons and add to the self doubt and burden already carried? Does it make you feel less worthy due to the label?

 

[HëllaBubz]

I am just wondering as it started out about being about what is said to Supporters but I see it now leading to Sufferers actually exposing their true feelings in wanting to be understood and given a chance in a relationship that they themselves sometimes don't feel worthy of.

How the hell do you say the things that the rest of us pick up, but hasn't moved to the conscious yet?
Hey Nic....my current T sucks.....are you taking on any clients? :p

 

[rightkindofme]

I feel like to a degree, in a marriage with children(depending of course on the severity of the problems) it is not out of place to expect support from your spouse as well. If you are doing things that are hurtful and are not facing up to them, I can understand the supporter needing distance. But again, I think there is a big difference between standing up for your boundaries and breaking up a family. At some level defending your boundaries might require walking away, but that is supposed to be a last resort, not one of your first choices.

I hope to golly gee I have never advised that someone walk away without trying at all. I hope.

I think that my really severe symptoms and yours are different. The whole being married with kids thing raised the bar instead of lowering it for me. My husband and I had a lot of very long conversations before having children together. When I am not in control I am an incredibly violent person. I left my ex-fiance because we couldn't figure out how to argue without me beating the shit out of him. :(

I expect my husband to leave me and take the kids to protect my kids from me if I am not in control. We made that very very clear before I was allowed to have children. :( It is hard. Sometimes I feel very ashamed of myself that I have to consciously work every day on not losing my kids. But I have to. They are that important.

 

[Bilby]

Still going to come back to express my feelings on this but Bilby I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you read this in the supporters forum. When I posted it was not there. Read in that context it must have been upsetting reading.

Thanks Abstract, I appreciate it :)

 

[Tinyflame]

So, is this really about Sufferers not liking Supporters being told to leave as, while being one such Sufferer, you want people to give you a chance and not just judge you on a diagnosis?

..I detest the illness at times, and have learned as much as I possibly can to Support but not enable bad behaviour. There are days where I want to leave but I love him so I will not unless he breaks my most precious boundaries.

See, from what I have read over the years is that a Sufferer is often hardest on themselves, their own worst critic and themselves diminish their worth. From knowing that and thinking about this all day I am going to ask does reading "PTSD is no excuse" push buttons and add to the self doubt and burden already carried? Does it make you feel less worthy due to the label?

I'm not sure if loveneverfails meant this, but I guess I don't see her post inferring that. I think it's in agreement with what Nicolete said above, 'bad' behaviour (that is, unhealthy or disrespectful ) would always be unacceptable and shouldn't be expected to be tolerated. And there are so many characteristics or choices not attributable to ptsd. But (and) sufferers oftentimes (I do anyway) carry that burden of fear of not giving the other person what they need. I just meant many people with other illnesses cut themselves the slack, or can accept, acknowledge and admit the illness is contributing, whereas with ptsd there can be more resentment or denial or self-blame (already) or a belief it is a matter of trying harder to overcome it. Something people understand with other illnesses is only fruitful to an extent.

My sort of poor analogy would be, if you are talking with someone with cancer and they nod off, one realizes it's not disinterest but physical limitation. Whereas if someone with ptsd gets overwhelmed it *might* be seen as avoidance, selfishness, disinterest, not caring, etc.

It takes a long time (for me anyway) to accept this isn't all a mind over matter situation. Trying to believe trying harder to fix or manage it simply doesn't fix or manage all of it, and especially when a supporter blames a sufferer for that 'failure' the sufferer's self-blame increases. I have seen that often with other illnesses, usually it's based on fear the love one is deteriorating, the illness can't be stopped, or sometimes denial or inconvenience. It's hard for everyone to accept, and very sad, often it comes out in anger. Maybe it simply could be re-phrased, "PTSD is not an excuse, 'BUT' PTSD 'IS' an illness"? If that makes sense.

I think Nicolette and Bilby and all who suppport are wonderful, kind, caring souls, hugely committed and selfless, and no one should accept what is intolerable or unhealthy or not worth it to them. I don't think anyone meant otherwise- that would be awful. :(

:hug: 's if accepted.

 

[Meadowsweet]

People are people. This 'them and us' argument of sufferer/supporter is not a balanced way of thinking, or a balanced way of looking at the thread.

I said before that people react to a personal bias. But it is not the 'them' who react to that bias and have their buttons pushed. It is everybody. And whoever is looking at the 'other' without looking also at how they react to situations themselves, is only going to make that divide wider.

I've never had a supporter (so not a reaction to my own situation Nicollette - just examples), and when I hear people talk about their spouses from both sides of the fence, I don't feel that I want one.

It seems that some people with PTSD sometimes (not ALL) don't put as much effort in to life because there is someone to enable them to take that time off. But on the other hand, perhaps those people will heal quicker and more substantially than I will.

And sometimes it seems that some (not ALL) spouses of those with PTSD become dependent upon their partners PTSD for their own identity as the 'needed carer'. But on the other hand, perhaps they can pull it off.

As someone without support, it is very tempting to tell both supporter and sufferer to go it alone. But I look at myself and recognise that I'm maybe not the most reliable relationship expert. So I'm mindful that I'm not seeing abuse where there isn't any.

It doesn't hurt anyone to take a step back from emotional reactions and look at themselves, before they jump to conclusions.

 

[intothelight]

See, from what I have read over the years is that a Sufferer is often hardest on themselves, their own worst critic and themselves diminish their worth. From knowing that and thinking about this all day I am going to ask does reading "PTSD is no excuse" push buttons and add to the self doubt and burden already carried? Does it make you feel less worthy due to the label?

That is a great question Nicolette, and there was a point in time where I would have felt that way.

PTSD should never be viewed as an excuse, but it is a real condition that manifests itself in a variety of behaviors, some of which can be extremely damaging to the individual and those around them. At that point it is the responsibility of the individual to get the treatment they need to change those behaviors; and for those around them to set boundaries and enforce them to keep themselves from harm. Using PTSD as an excuse to continue, or enable that type of behaviors, is never acceptable.

What does having PTSD mean? Does having this make a person any less valuable, worthy, loveable, etc. than having diabetes, heart disease, cancer, depression, phobias, etc.? It shouldn't, and the stigma we attach to ourselves is something that each person has to work through until they find acceptance of who they are. A "disorder" is not "who" a person is, it is something they have.

How it affects each person and their relationships varies and that is something each individual has to work out. Just like a diabetic has to monitor their blood sugar and adjust their diet, someone with PTSD has to manage their stress levels and make adjustments accordingly. Is it an excuse...no, it is just dealing with the reality and doing the best each day to manage symptoms and live life to the fullest.

Bottom line, I know that I am OK with who I am. I am not OK with out of control PTSD symptoms and it is my responsibility to do everything within my control to keep myself as stable as possible. PTSD is the reason that on a stressful day, I need some quiet time to decompress. Whether or not someone can live with that is entirely up to them and is completely beyond my control. I wouldn't expect someone with a migraine to get up and go out to dinner with me, as that would just be selfish; but I would expect them to get the help they needed if the migraines put them in bed for weeks on end.

But what if there was no medication to stop the migraines? I think most people would encourage and support them to continue to look for that "something" to make it better. How is this any different than PTSD and a person looking for that therapy that helps them? Is PTSD an excuse or a reason? In both cases, there is loss of companionship, isolation, an unfair distribution of daily tasks, etc., and ultimately it is up to each person in the relationship to decide what they can and cannot live with.

Life isn't fair and no one really has control over anything but their own choices.

 

[Abstract]

Junebug,

I hate the word selfless. Personally I don't see either Bilby or Nicolette as selfless, thank goodness! To me "selfless" smacks of martyrdom and burning pires as well as exactly what it says - a lack of self.

Sorry to be stuck on wording Junebug. I know what you meant. I just had to say it. :hug:

 

[Tinyflame]

Perhaps 'understanding' or 'accomodating' would be better. Perhaps I'll just stop where I'm at, lol. My vocabulary isn't at par today. No, I certainly didn't mean a door-mat, more like loving-plus-assertive. :hug:

I agree with ITL 100%.

I don't know, I can only say for myself I hate the word 'illness' too. But be it illness, disorder, injury, or any other label or semantics I could put on it, I think the facts for myself remain the same. I think Deb expressed it beautifully, and for me at least I think even a lot of arguments or resistance or fear(s) in my head are simply ways of me trying to avoid dealing with it, by logically convincing myself why it's better to isolate or not talk, or avoid fears. I'd like to try to accomplish more by simply not arguing with myself, and doing what needs to be done to face it.

Not that that isn't terrifying. but I'm not sure how much I'm accomplishing arguing it in my own head, so perhaps the ptsd fuels the doubt and intenal arguments. I have only made headway when I have chosen to trust 'the other', as meadowsweet said, and not be the one to interfere with my own (internal) judgments or justifications or doubts or fears. Left to myself and my determinations of what would be 'best' to do I would be still where I was, or worse.