Do Some Perpetrators Get Ptsd From Their Crimes?

[Algo]

Ok. how about this scenario then: Man and wife are getting along well and life is going smoothly and the children are growing up. Man has impulse control issues and a bit of a tempter but it is controlled.

But something happens and he finds out his wife has been involved with his best friend and flies into a rage in that moment and kills her. He then comes around and sees his dead wife and realises his children are upstairs. I won't give possible discriptions of what that could look like as I don't want to trigger people.

I don't see any reason why there would not be horror involved there or even helplessness. Not in the moment of the crime but after.

f you weren't acting out of

You didn't have to act out of horror etc in the DSM4 and rather had to experience it. One of the ways to experience it is for example to hear that ones child was killed in a car accident. I believe that would have qualified. Hmmm...

 

[Lemog]

It has taken out the helplessness, horror and fear aspects.

There were never as you have implied below:

If you don't have PTSD and you commit a trauma on someone else without acting on helplessness, horror or fear, then afterwards it can't be PTSD. Could be all sorts of things but leave PTSD out of it.

DSV IV criterion NEVER covered acting on helplessness, horror or fear, it covered that you WERE helpless, in horror or fear of danger to yourself or another, NOT that you were doing the hurting.

Soldiers don't get PTSD from the act of killing someone else, they get PTSD from the emotional impact they feel, what they see with the body blowing into pieces or falling to the ground, so forth. It is the after the act that is the impact. Survival guilt is huge for this reason, because they did their job of killing and survived, yet their best buddy got a return bullet because luck wasn't on his side.

PTSD is not from the perspective of performing an act, however; you can perform an act but you get PTSD due to the after effects caused by the act. A person who kills someone then spirals down into depression thinking about loved ones that person had, kids maybe and killing a childs mother or father. It is these thoughts that cause neurological turmoil... very rarely the act when talking from a doing perspective.

Commonsense prevails for those on the receiving end of a traumatic event.

 

[Algo]

Thank you for the above. It was what I was thinking but couldn't articulate. Except I would not know the details of what and how soldiers experience trauma from personal experience but guessed what what said above.

 

[Mevok]

Since many pedophiles were themselves abused as children it seems logical that some would have PTSD. I am not qualified to make that assessment it is just my opinion.

 

[Algo]

some would have PTSD.

Thanks. To be clear I did not mean have PTSD before the crime and rather meant get PTSD from their crime.

 

[Ejom]

Oh sorry misunderstood. No I really doubt it since they get somevsort of sick pleasure from it.

 

[Edeb]

They can and do get ptsd from committing crime. PTSD is not exclusive to victims. A remorseful criminal that fits criterion a will do the trick.

 

[Wivow]

They can and do get ptsd from committing crime. PTSD is not exclusive to victims.

Well then they DESERVE to get PTSD and not be diagnosed because they're too ashamed of getting caught and going to jail and having the same things done to them that they did to others!

But, I still don't think a remorseful criminal fits the bill. THEIR well being or life wasn't in danger.

 

[Ezuk]

The only one I can think of is a soldier, and, they surely don't deserve the PTSD.

 

[Algo]

THEIR well being or life wasn't in danger

But see, PTSD can be developed without being the person that's life was in danger and actually without death being involved at all. Look at the criteria.

Seeing death or victimisation and threatened, witnessed or experienced violation are also included.

 

[Kahiz]

Seeing death or victimisation and threatened, witnessed or experienced violation are also included.

If you're going to cite factual content, please cite it correctly, instead of making inaccurate statements when the information is available for everyone here.

[DLMURL]https://www.myptsd.com/c/articles/posttraumatic-stress-disorder.7/[/DLMURL]

A. Exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violence in one (or more) of the following ways:

1. Directly experiencing the traumatic event(s),
2. Witnessing, in person, the event(s) as it occurred to others,
3. Learning that the traumatic event(s) occurred to a close family member or close friend. In cases of actual or threatened death of a family member or friend, the event(s) must have been violent and accidental.
4. Experiencing repeated or extreme exposure to aversive details of the traumatic event(s) (e.g., first responders collecting human remains; police officers repeatedly exposed to details of child abuse).

There are vast differences in the above versus your statement, that steer to victimization and violation, which aren't part of the criterion. There is further information from the DSM to assist in deciphering the specific meanings of criterion A listed:

Criteria A

Criterion A outlines events that are considered traumatic enough for a PTSD diagnosis, which include but not limited to, war as a combatant or civilian, threatened or actual physical assault (robbery, mugging, physical attack, childhood physical abuse), threatened or actual sexual violation (forced sexual penetration, alcohol / drug-facilitated sexual penetration, abusive sexual contact, noncontact sexual abuse, sexual trafficking), being kidnapped, taken hostage, terrorist attack, torture, prisoner of war, natural or man-made disasters, medical (waking during surgery, anaphylactic shock) and severe motor vehicle accidents.

Whilst every conceivable type of trauma is impossible to list, the DSM clearly outlines a pervasive pattern of extreme violence or abnormal event not considered normal within life. Normal death, life threatening illness, debilitating medical illness, relationship breakdowns and other stressors considered part of normal life, are not necessarily considered a traumatic event by definition for PTSD. These lesser events are covered under other diagnoses, such as Adjustment Disorders, where a single stressor is responsible.

 

[Algo]

Hi Kahiz,

I felt I was saying exactly that. I almost quoted what you did but then never had the energy. The previous poster only mentioned being threatened by death personally. From the criteria someone can witness someone elses death, if they are a direct family member and the experience was not natural it is possible and it also includes

Seeing death

Exposure to actual or threatened death,

victimisation

Exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violence

witnessed or experienced violation

sexual violence

Directly experiencing the traumatic event(s), Witnessing, in person, the event(s) as it occurred to others, Learning that the traumatic event(s) occurred to a close family member or close friend. In cases of actual or threatened death of a family member or friend, the event(s) must have been violent and accidental. Experiencing repeated or extreme exposure to aversive details of the traumatic event(s) (e.g., first responders collecting human remains; police officers repeatedly exposed to details of child abuse).

That is all that I was pointing out.