Bad Session? Don't Know What To Think

[macca]

I saw my T again today (8th session, seeing her weekly to fortnightly). I referred to something that I'd told her earlier on - probably the 2nd session, relating to events and flashbacks etc around what I think of as the "core" trauma. I don't remember an actual trauma itself, but I would have been 3 years old. It cost me a LOT to tell her the first time, and I'd avoided seeing a therapist my whole life (I'm 43). When I first told her, she explained that we may never know for sure (fair enough), but that it sounded like something may have happened (which was important for me to hear at the time - I was in denial, but the evidence seems strong that something happened). She had forgotten about that disclosure today, when I referred to it. That tore me apart. Logically, I know she can't remember everything. She sees a lot of clients, and there's just been so much that has happened to me. But the cost to me of telling her - I was so messed up, and got bad flashbacks, panic, hyperarousal. Part of me was expecting retribution for having "told". All this was discussed. I feel so bad that she could forget what cost me so much. And on top of that, I had to "re-tell" her. I'm so messed up again.

What's more - I don't know why I did this when I felt so disturbed at her forgetting, but I actually told her more. Can't believe it. I told her about flashbacks which were like the visual ones, but which I could only "sense" the presence of a "bad" person. I also told her about horribly painful body memories. Why I did this, I don't know, because what if she forgets that too? What's the point in my sacrificing so much to tell her? About the "sensed" presence - she suggested it might have been a ghost. Was she even listening to me? Like WHAT? Then she suggested hypnosis, which we've discussed before and I said I wasn't comfortable with, that maybe some time in the future, but not now. She actually suggested we use it to recover the memories (though she said that would mean I could never take legal action, and I doubt I would anyway). Why would I want to remember that event in detail? I can't think of anything worse, and I don't want to be re-traumatised. She said we could then follow up with a double session of EMDR the next day - but I've also discussed with her discomfort over that too! I know that if I could remember, it would probably put a lot of pieces in place, but surely this isn't the way?

I was so distraught driving home, I'm messed up all over again. Is it reasonable to expect to her have remembered this stuff, which was obvious to both of us the first time to have been terribly difficult for me to get out, and that there were big repercussions for? Or am I expecting too much, as even if I was her only client there has been so very much happen to me. And the ghost thing, when it was clear that it was the same as the visual flashbacks, only "sensed", and the hypnosis, EMDR thing? She makes notes, but...

I want to stick with her, because she is helping, and she has got 14 years trauma therapy experience, but she's put a lot of doubt in my mind.

 

[Abstract]

I am so very sorry. I can only imagine what you must feel like now. I wish this had not happened for you. :(

She had forgotten about that disclosure today, when I referred to it. That tore me apart.

When something is earth shatteringly important for us and the T does not fully understand it or gets it wrong it can feel like the worst thing possible. When I say anything private it feels like I am giving somoene a gift of sorts.

retribution

I am assuming all of your self punishing and other related symptoms are what you are referring to here and I know how difficult that has been.

Your T has a lot of lost trust that she needs to work very hard to regain. I hope you are able to spell all of this out to her very clearly. Maybe an email would be a good idea. People do mess up but that changes none of the reality of the consequences for you.

A few questions for you:
You say she has 15 years of trauma experience. Has it felt like she has in general? Does she treat other conditions? Does she have specific training and do you know what psychological approach she works with? How do you know about the experience?

Do you feel you were able to tell her the type of symptoms and reactions you had to telling her last time and was it clear in what you said that they were specifically related to saying what you did? Sometimes when I have had this type of experience with a T I have realised that I have not necessarily communicated what was going on in my head in the past. When I am dissociated it is sometimes hard to tell what was said and what was thought if that makes sense. Have you been speaking about other traumas that are clearer? Do you think it is possible she has had these in the forefront of her mind and not realised the impact of this one?

she actually suggested we use it to recover the memories

I have to say this worries me a lot. It is nothing to do with a court case and it is about making sure your memories are not corrupted. If you have such a severe reaction last time I would worry a whole lot about you being re traumatised too. How good is she in general about talking about safety for you?

The ghost comment is obviously also very upsetting for you and would be for anyone. Some T's are very cautious about leading or jumping to a concept that may change the clients interpretation of the past but that does not fit with her at all considering the hypnosis story.

You were very brave to say so much about something so difficult. To state your truth. Hang in there. You will figure it out. She will have to earn back your trust or you will figure out what is right for you. You can come back from this with work.

 

[scout86]

Just to play devil's advocate a little, are you SURE she forgot? Is it possible she was trying to get you to tell the story again, without making a big deal out of specifically asking you to do it? You mentioned that you told her more this time. Do you suppose there's a chance that she thought you might do that, if you retold the story? To some extent, maybe retelling the story IS the point?

Something I've come to realize, in my own situation, is that I really have no idea where "therapy" is going or where it "needs" to go most of the time. There have been a number of times when I've been left thinking my T has no idea what so ever what he's talking about then, usually several hours later while I'm rethinking it, a light comes on and I figure it out. There's a lot of stuff I "don't get", to the point that I don't KNOW that I don't get it. He has a much better idea of the big picture than I do. (Which is why I'm paying him! LOL) The other thing I've come to suspect is the more I want to avoid something, the more important it is to NOT avoid it, at least in the long run.

 

[Abstract]

Scout is right of course and looking back I thought I had covered this aspect of it but didn't. Writing all your thoughts out clearly to her or speaking to her about this clearly and fully is part of checking if our perception of what we think happened is how the other person perceives it.

Sometimes we can project our fears or not realise that the T is doing something on purpose for a reason. Sometimes it doesn't work or backfires but can still be thought through and not a sign of what we think it is.

It is always important to talk things through when we have trouble in therapy.

 

[macca]

@Abstract and @scout86 thank you for your replies. I'm starting to calm down a bit, but I'm worried about tonight (flashbacks only happen at night for me).

Abstract - By "retribution" - I know it sounds stupid, but it was a strong feeling that someone was going to come and kill me. I think if something has happened, that I was threatened, due to the level of panic I had after telling the first time, and how long it took me to tell (40 years!). I know it's not true, nobody is coming for me, just my irrational fear. You might be glad to know that my self-harm has reduced of late - that's something she has really worked on with me, so she does help me.

Sometimes when I have had this type of experience with a T I have realised that I have not necessarily communicated what was going on in my head in the past

Ok - I have to admit, this is possible. I'm pretty scattered at times in session, my mind goes all over the place, so I need to check this out. And we've been doing some "timeline" work - haven't gotten very far yet, there just seems so much. So it's definitely possible that she was in the headspace of that stuff. But for me - it was most the significant thing I'd ever uttered in my life before, so I guess I might have assumed she would "know" that, but maybe not. And the increased symptoms, maybe I didn't make clear how connected they seemed to me, because I'd been going "downhill" anyway, previous to seeing her.

You say she has 15 years of trauma experience. Has it felt like she has in general? Does she treat other conditions? Does she have specific training and do you know what psychological approach she works with? How do you know about the experience?

Yes, usually it does feel like it. When I was looking for a therapist, I saw her experience listed on her website, and she has actually told me the same. She does treat other stuff too, but I don't know what. She uses CBT, but also EMDR, hypnosis, guided imagery. I actually drive for an hour to see her - I don't want to accidentally have anyone I know see me there. Excessive much?

The ghost comment is obviously also very upsetting for you

I just don't get the ghost comment. It really upset me, big time. I think it's because it seemed like she was trying to "explain away" my experience, and my family would commonly outright deny things I said had happened, or minimise or ignore them. Maybe she hit a nerve doing that.

Is it possible she was trying to get you to tell the story again, without making a big deal out of specifically asking you to do it?

You have a good point there. I suppose that is possible too. Though I rather think it's a bit harsh to spring that on me, without any warning that it might happen. Maybe she knew it might be hard to get me to say it again. She knows how avoidant I feel about re-living stuff with EMDR - but then again, maybe she suspects it's the only way to get me to do it.

the more I want to avoid something, the more important it is to NOT avoid it, at least in the long run.

Yeah, true. But so very scary.

I'm scared of falling apart right now. I've got to see family at Christmas, and pretend I'm ok. I can't tell my parents, Dad is currently getting cancer treatment, I don't want to upset his recovery. I have just taken on more hours at work (cause we're financially not good at all) and I have to keep it together to be able to do that. I've only just started pulling myself together a little bit in the last week or so. I want my kids to be able to enjoy Christmas without me being mental.

Sorry this is so long. I feel guilty unloading all of this. You all have your own stuff to deal with. It's just - well you're the only people I feel I can talk to right now.

 

[Pencil]

I don't know why I did this when I felt so disturbed at her forgetting,

Perfectly normal.

it might have been a ghost.

WTF??:wtf::eek:

Is it reasonable to expect to her have remembered this stuff

You pay her to remember. Yes, it is reasonable!! And she has notes, for heaven's sake.

 

[macca]

@Pencil

WTF??

Exactly what I was thinking. I wondered how professional she really is. I mean, yeah, I don't know everything, maybe I'm wrong not believing in ghosts - I'm happy to be corrected, but wait, what...? I did not expect such an answer from her.

 

[Pencil]

Maybe you need 'The Ghost Whisperer' instead of a therapist. Pay her with ghost money and see what happens.

I really hope things improve!! Or that you get another therapist without short term memory problems.

Sorry, can't help being snarky about therapists who are careless / whatever else it might be.

 

[zaniara]

Ghost comment was absurd and a pretty awkward thing to say. I would also feel invalidated. But as for 'not remembering' - well my therapist has done that sometimes: pretended to not remember in order to provoke me to say more than I intended.

Go back and tell her how you feel and ask her though questions- that way you will at least know a bit more about what went on and why.

God, GHOSTS?? Well maybe it wasn't my father who abused me after all- maybe it was a ghost! :eek: :alien: :rolleyes:

 

[macca]

Pay her with ghost money and see what happens.

LOL! You cracked me up! I should, shouldn't I! But my ghost purse is lost, cause it's invisible. Oh well.

GHOSTS?? Well maybe it wasn't my father who abused me after all- maybe ut was a ghost!

Yep. Apparently. So many of our experiences that the ghost thing could explain, now we know about it. NOT! I'm glad it wasn't just me that thought this was out of line.

 

[mytai]

Maybe she hit a nerve doing that.

My T did that once with me, and I let her know. I wrote an email and told her that her comment on the phone hit a sore spot, I also told her why it was a sore spot for me. We then talked about it in our next session and she explained it wasn't her intention for me to take it that way. She explained how she meant that comment. And it helped. It actually built my trust in her because we were able to talk about that and she didn't brush me off. We addressed it and were able to move on from it.

@macca Asking questions has been one of the most helpful things I am doing for myself with my T. She is different than any other T I've seen (in a good way) and it helps me to know why she is doing something. Although my T is pretty good at explaining reasoning without me needing to ask. But even still, I do ask questions, usually through email, but it is helpful. It has reduced a lot of me misunderstanding what is happening by doing so.

 

[macca]

Maybe she "forgot" on purpose - it seems quite possible now. Still seems like a dirty trick to me. I can see why it might be done, but I'm still a bit rattled by it.

In thinking some more, I'm thinking I feel invalidated. It's been building up. I was massively, systematically invalidated gowing up, and I cannot stand people dismissing me. We've been working on more of the emotional neglect/abuse stuff lately, and she's trying to help me see how I didn't draw the responses I got onto myself, that it was due a lot to how my parents were themselves brought up, as well as the considerable adversity our family always seemed to be facing. It has been helping. She told me today that she found it was better to realise that things might not have had the serious meaning I had suscribed to them. Ok, true, but I've started to feel mildly invalidated that I've overreacted, even though I know that's not what she means.

But last week, I told her about something that happened aged 7 that was unlikely, but DID happen, and almost injured me badly, but nobody believed me. She told me it was a fantastical story, that no wonder they did not believe me, and no wonder they dismissed me even more after that. But adrenaline is a known phenomenon, and that's how I escaped when nobody was there to help. I felt that she didn't believe me either.

Then this week she was dismissing my memories of hypervigilance in my 20s as normal. It is not normal to stand with one hand on the doorknob, too scared to run outside, and one hand holding a knife because you are triggered (as always) by windows black with darkness and no curtains, because your brain is telling you someone will come through the window, and be stuck like that until your husband comes home and you feel protected. I think someone DID come through my window when I was 3 or 4. Is being stuck at the door like that that normal for non-PTSD? I'd felt dismissed earlier fom telling her of always making escape plans, always in case I was attacked, and her saying all young women do that.