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" The Laundry Must Be Folded This Way", " The Floor Must Be Mopped That Way"
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I have held back from saying something similar because I'm not sure how objective I'm being about it, but I was in a relationship that became very abusive later on, and the abuse started out with comments and behaviours like this.
I thought it too. Especially since there is the placing of responsibility on you. I think it can be a type of emotional abuse even if there is no intent of it being that. It can also be an indication of a much wider level of abusive behaviour in a relationship.
I would be very careful as this type of fairly low level undermining and controlling of what we do can start eroding our self esteem insidiously.
I am assuming that he he hasn't and isn't getting treatment. ?
I would be very careful as this type of fairly low level undermining and controlling of what we do can start eroding our self esteem insidiously.
I am assuming that he he hasn't and isn't getting treatment. ?
There can be another possible motivation behind this type of criticism and controlling behaviour (other than feelings of safety and protection of anxiety). It can be a disguised expression or release of anger or rage. One that the person may or may not be aware of.
If this is the case it would probably be alongside the attempts to feel more in control of anxiety and safety.
If this is the case it would probably be alongside the attempts to feel more in control of anxiety and safety.
Dee Morris
Silver Member
I have OCD like symptoms in that I fold my towels a certain way or else it feels "wrong". I don't "need" super clean so much as super organized. I also have some weird shopping habits. Just being honest, my first thought was that he is experiencing OCD with a bit of a controlling personality. The comments seemed like a passive aggressive attempt at shaming you into compliance and feels abusive. I'm sorry if I'm off base by saying that but I'm basing those thoughts on the examples you give in your post. Maybe that's not his intent but it's kinda the end result is it not?
Edited to add that I responded without reading the other replies first. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person that had that POV.
Edited to add that I responded without reading the other replies first. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person that had that POV.
I am separated from my husband, but due to kids, and not being able to work full time because of the 3 year old, I'm stuck living in the same house. We have separate rooms. He is a hoarder, the garage and the attic are full to the top with his junk, but he still feels compelled to tell me how to separate the recycling, criticise me for cleaning the kitchen a certian way and reorders the dishes after I have put them in the dishwasher. He is a control freak. Sounds like your guy is not a hoarder, but it also sounds OCD like to me.
This DEFINITLY subtly erodes your confidence, I have been putting up with this behavior for 8 years, and it has totally messed with my head. I used to go out, be a pretty happy go lucky person with lots of friends. Now I am a shadow of who I was in a lot of ways. Since we agreed we are no longer together it has been a little better. What struck me as similar about your guy was the attitude with which he refuses to address the problem. If I was in your situation I would refuse to do the floors. It didn't work for me though, I once went two weeks without loading the dishwasher, just did all the dishes by hand, he didn't even notice. So as an experiment, I loaded the dishwasher, but left it open. An hour later I caught him in there reorganizing my dishes. Hopeless.
Just wanted to add, a person who loves you should love the way you do things, mostly think your idiosyncrasies are cute, and even if they sometimes get irittated by them they should not undermine you that way. If he is very enthusiastically positive about most of the things you do but just has a floor quirk, thats one thing, but it sounds more widespread then that. I had to deal with this kind of critique in all aspects of the relationship. It really caused me to stop wanting to express myself at all. I'm learning there is a person in there again and its pins and needles now, everything is so emotional, but at least it's not numb.
This DEFINITLY subtly erodes your confidence, I have been putting up with this behavior for 8 years, and it has totally messed with my head. I used to go out, be a pretty happy go lucky person with lots of friends. Now I am a shadow of who I was in a lot of ways. Since we agreed we are no longer together it has been a little better. What struck me as similar about your guy was the attitude with which he refuses to address the problem. If I was in your situation I would refuse to do the floors. It didn't work for me though, I once went two weeks without loading the dishwasher, just did all the dishes by hand, he didn't even notice. So as an experiment, I loaded the dishwasher, but left it open. An hour later I caught him in there reorganizing my dishes. Hopeless.
Just wanted to add, a person who loves you should love the way you do things, mostly think your idiosyncrasies are cute, and even if they sometimes get irittated by them they should not undermine you that way. If he is very enthusiastically positive about most of the things you do but just has a floor quirk, thats one thing, but it sounds more widespread then that. I had to deal with this kind of critique in all aspects of the relationship. It really caused me to stop wanting to express myself at all. I'm learning there is a person in there again and its pins and needles now, everything is so emotional, but at least it's not numb.
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Here's how it would play out in my house.
Me: Honey- when you let me tell you how to clean the toilet, I'll let you tell me how to clean the floor.
Him: But- I don't clean the toilet.
Me: Exactly!
Personally, I think that the need to "teach" you how to clean a floor is a flat out attempt to degrade you. He wants you to be unsure of yourself so that he can maintain control. I have been with men like this. My ex was great at telling me how to do stuff he wasn't willing to do himself. He'd flat out refuse to speak to the phone company after jacking the bills up to $500+. So that we didn't lose the phone, I'd have to be the one to call and whine and plead to keep it on. With him in the background telling me the entire time what to say, how to say it.
When a partner is flat out refusing to do something and tells you how to do it, that partner is an immature jerk and irresponsible. When a partner implies you are not smart enough how to clean a floor properly and he must "teach" you such a brainless task, he is being a condescending, controlling abuser.
Me: Honey- when you let me tell you how to clean the toilet, I'll let you tell me how to clean the floor.
Him: But- I don't clean the toilet.
Me: Exactly!
Personally, I think that the need to "teach" you how to clean a floor is a flat out attempt to degrade you. He wants you to be unsure of yourself so that he can maintain control. I have been with men like this. My ex was great at telling me how to do stuff he wasn't willing to do himself. He'd flat out refuse to speak to the phone company after jacking the bills up to $500+. So that we didn't lose the phone, I'd have to be the one to call and whine and plead to keep it on. With him in the background telling me the entire time what to say, how to say it.
When a partner is flat out refusing to do something and tells you how to do it, that partner is an immature jerk and irresponsible. When a partner implies you are not smart enough how to clean a floor properly and he must "teach" you such a brainless task, he is being a condescending, controlling abuser.
Hello, I'll Make Tea,
Being rules orientated, opinionated and even having a bit of a controlling personality, IMHO, is not a symptom of PTSD.
Someone once explained to me that having PTSD can and does change a person, but it does not change the person's fundamental personality. In other words, it's like a blanket thrown over one's personality with the more moderate qualities subdued and the extremes fight to be expressed. Someone who is very critical is prone to be more critical of themselves and others; someone who is driven becomes very hyper-aroused easily and can turn explosive without a lot of prompting; someone who is fundamentally laid back becomes more easily, and chronically, depressed. That being said, most people want/need to feel they have some control over their lives - you wouldn't be writing if you didn't own some of that yourself, eh?
It's my belief that most of us have at least some rules. Often those rules clash when we're in close relationship to others. It's the stuff that causes common every day "fights" between couples. But couples find common ground, because they want the relationship to continue and evolve. What you're talking about is different. You're talking about (1) having mutual respect (or lack of it) between the parties, (2) addressing the practical side/s of your relationship, i.e. who takes out the trash and why, and (3) standards.
If I understand you correctly, the two of you have come to an agreement that he's the "bread winner" and you're the homemaker. I don't suppose you tell him how to do his job, do you? Why should he tell you how to keep house?
As Abstract pointed out, why is he making you responsible for his emotional state as reflected in how well the floor is cleaned? When it comes to how clean the floor is, toilet lid being left up, or what's the "right" way to fold towels - The only purpose in over focusing on those types of things is to cause unnecessary turmoil and strife that neither of you need, IF the two of you want to continue a relationship.
His sleep problem is his to deal with regardless of how clean the house is. Those are two entirely separate things.
If his opinion of how well you clean the floor isn't up to his standard, yet you're doing it to a relatively decent standard, then the problem is his - solely his. If he wants it cleaner, let him do it, and don't feel guilty about it. Your purpose in life isn't to live up to his standards of cleanliness. And, you feeling humiliated if he cleans the floor after you've already cleaned it is just the reverse of him feeling less than perfect if the floor isn't cleaned to his high standard.
It sounds to me like you're both taking what the other person does (or doesn't do) personally. Maybe.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a very real threat. If he is NPD it can really send you into a downward spiral, a deep one, very quickly, that is difficult to get out of (trust me). I'd suggest learning more about it. Of course, you can't diagnose him. But learning about it can give you some indication if NPD applies to him, or whether he simply has very high standards, is rather critical, and is highly organized. If it's latter, then the two of you may want to consider couple's counseling so that both of you learn what's reasonable to expect from each other in the relationship, and what's reasonable for you to accept and expect of yourself.
Being rules orientated, opinionated and even having a bit of a controlling personality, IMHO, is not a symptom of PTSD.
Someone once explained to me that having PTSD can and does change a person, but it does not change the person's fundamental personality. In other words, it's like a blanket thrown over one's personality with the more moderate qualities subdued and the extremes fight to be expressed. Someone who is very critical is prone to be more critical of themselves and others; someone who is driven becomes very hyper-aroused easily and can turn explosive without a lot of prompting; someone who is fundamentally laid back becomes more easily, and chronically, depressed. That being said, most people want/need to feel they have some control over their lives - you wouldn't be writing if you didn't own some of that yourself, eh?
It's my belief that most of us have at least some rules. Often those rules clash when we're in close relationship to others. It's the stuff that causes common every day "fights" between couples. But couples find common ground, because they want the relationship to continue and evolve. What you're talking about is different. You're talking about (1) having mutual respect (or lack of it) between the parties, (2) addressing the practical side/s of your relationship, i.e. who takes out the trash and why, and (3) standards.
If I understand you correctly, the two of you have come to an agreement that he's the "bread winner" and you're the homemaker. I don't suppose you tell him how to do his job, do you? Why should he tell you how to keep house?
As Abstract pointed out, why is he making you responsible for his emotional state as reflected in how well the floor is cleaned? When it comes to how clean the floor is, toilet lid being left up, or what's the "right" way to fold towels - The only purpose in over focusing on those types of things is to cause unnecessary turmoil and strife that neither of you need, IF the two of you want to continue a relationship.
His sleep problem is his to deal with regardless of how clean the house is. Those are two entirely separate things.
If his opinion of how well you clean the floor isn't up to his standard, yet you're doing it to a relatively decent standard, then the problem is his - solely his. If he wants it cleaner, let him do it, and don't feel guilty about it. Your purpose in life isn't to live up to his standards of cleanliness. And, you feeling humiliated if he cleans the floor after you've already cleaned it is just the reverse of him feeling less than perfect if the floor isn't cleaned to his high standard.
It sounds to me like you're both taking what the other person does (or doesn't do) personally. Maybe.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a very real threat. If he is NPD it can really send you into a downward spiral, a deep one, very quickly, that is difficult to get out of (trust me). I'd suggest learning more about it. Of course, you can't diagnose him. But learning about it can give you some indication if NPD applies to him, or whether he simply has very high standards, is rather critical, and is highly organized. If it's latter, then the two of you may want to consider couple's counseling so that both of you learn what's reasonable to expect from each other in the relationship, and what's reasonable for you to accept and expect of yourself.
Don't you just love how some of us posses supernatural abilities? I mean seriously! I have the unique ability to insert emotions into other people's minds. How do I know this? Because so many people tell me that I made them mad at me, or hit me, or scream in my face. What an awesome POWER it is to be able to MAKE anybody do ANYTHING! Hmmmmm.........anybody know how to get a hold of Bill Gates?
Queen Boudica
VIP Member
Me too.
And I'd agree about looking at narcissistic personality disorder and how having someone telling you how to clean and making sure you do everything their way is degrading and controlling and belittling and destroys your confidence. Stop it now before it is too late. If you have kids does he do that to the kids too?
BloomInWinter
VIP Member
Your husband is very outside the norm with his perfectionistic, controlling, judging behaviors.
What you are describing isn't his PTSD, but other serious mental illness.
It's fine to have a preference for ourselves. It's ok to ask nicely if someone would do something our way. To have a very rigid idea that our is the only acceptable way, demand that it be done that way, then punish a person for not doing it perfectly is sick, abnormal, manipulative, and a hallmark of domestic abuse.
Most healthy adults, when faced with such mean perfectionism, would respond with a "if that's the way you want it done, you can do it yourself then." Of course, no healthy adult would make such bizarre demands of another adult unless they were that person's supervisor and paying the person.
The Julia Roberts movie, "sleeping with the enemy", is an extreme example on the spectrum of abuse, but the abuser has those characteristics.
Please disregard any of my comments which don't fit your situation or aren't helpful.
Please do get counseling for yourself. You don't mention if you feel safe, or how bad he gets in his punishment for perceived infractions. Is his method of punishment escalating?
One thing you do know now is that he had a problem before you were in his life. He withheld the truth about it from you (unless I misread that) and yet he's slowly manipulating you into changing yourself to fit his bizarre expectations.
My gut reaction is that he is possibly much more controlling than he is letting on, and that you may be in danger. I hope I'm wrong.
He has no right treating you like a slave and you do not have to do things his way unless you choose to do so.
His PTSD does not give him the right to be demanding, disrespectful, passive-aggressive, or mean. PTSD can make our worst parts of our personalities more prominent, but it doesn't give us a different personality.
Your hubby has personality issues that he will need to work on, and you will need help and ongoing support to not be emotionally harmed.
Please get that help for yourself.
What you are describing isn't his PTSD, but other serious mental illness.
It's fine to have a preference for ourselves. It's ok to ask nicely if someone would do something our way. To have a very rigid idea that our is the only acceptable way, demand that it be done that way, then punish a person for not doing it perfectly is sick, abnormal, manipulative, and a hallmark of domestic abuse.
Most healthy adults, when faced with such mean perfectionism, would respond with a "if that's the way you want it done, you can do it yourself then." Of course, no healthy adult would make such bizarre demands of another adult unless they were that person's supervisor and paying the person.
The Julia Roberts movie, "sleeping with the enemy", is an extreme example on the spectrum of abuse, but the abuser has those characteristics.
Please disregard any of my comments which don't fit your situation or aren't helpful.
Please do get counseling for yourself. You don't mention if you feel safe, or how bad he gets in his punishment for perceived infractions. Is his method of punishment escalating?
One thing you do know now is that he had a problem before you were in his life. He withheld the truth about it from you (unless I misread that) and yet he's slowly manipulating you into changing yourself to fit his bizarre expectations.
My gut reaction is that he is possibly much more controlling than he is letting on, and that you may be in danger. I hope I'm wrong.
He has no right treating you like a slave and you do not have to do things his way unless you choose to do so.
His PTSD does not give him the right to be demanding, disrespectful, passive-aggressive, or mean. PTSD can make our worst parts of our personalities more prominent, but it doesn't give us a different personality.
Your hubby has personality issues that he will need to work on, and you will need help and ongoing support to not be emotionally harmed.
Please get that help for yourself.
Queen Boudica
VIP Member
Yes, the exact same thing to me too, that ex H who was telling me how I should clean things and do things his way and then I made him mad at me and scream and hit me because I didn't see that it was the right and logical way and ignored him or even dared to argue with him to leave me alone.
And then he had to do it because his way was better, so now I was lazy and useless because he did everything and another excuse to scream at me and abuse me. Yep amazing isn't it
And yes, my psychologist suggested "sleeping with the enemy" was a very good approximation of the abuse and control my ex was putting me through.
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