" The Laundry Must Be Folded This Way", " The Floor Must Be Mopped That Way"

[Hashi]

I'm a sufferer and I have a diagnosis of OCD. @I'll make tea , whether your husband has OCD or not, and whether or not there are other things going on as well, I do see a lot of compulsion in the issues you're talking about.

I can only repeat that accommodating his compulsions will make things much worse for him. He will suffer more if you do.

It may be just me but sometimes I think he is close to tears when a thing is done wrong.

The feelings of frustration and powerlessness around compulsions are horrible. I can well imagine him being close to tears. I'm always in tears when I'm in the grip of compulsions. It's complete misery. The thing that's necessary to understand is that they are only a symptom. The cause is the underlying feelings - anxiety, lack of safety, lack of control, feeling unable to face issues and emotions.

It would be easy to think that doing things the way we feel compelled to gives us a feeling of calm and control. Because it does, for a short time. But that's like saying an illegal drug really does help, because we feel better for a short time after we take it. Of course, what happens after that is that we need it again, and we need it more. Next time we take it, the cycle continues. The problems we would be addressing don't get addressed, because our focus is on the drug and not on them. So the problems get worse. The anxiety we're quelling with the drug gets quelled for a while, then it comes back worse. The feelings we're squashing with the drug go away for a while, then they come back worse. Everything gets worse.

I'm sure that you wouldn't try to help your husband take illegal drugs, because you would see that it wasn't a solution. You wouldn't think, he has tears in his eyes, he needs his heroin. I imagine you would want to understand and support him in how not to take the drug. You wouldn't want to understand and support him in getting hold of it.

Giving in to compulsions is like taking a drug. If you try to help your husband meet the compulsions, his need for the compulsions will get worse, and his distress over the compulsions will get worse. He won't address the underlying issues that the compulsions are masking and numbing. So they will get worse.

The best way you can support him is in how not to give in to the compulsions. From what you say, he's not acknowledging what's really going on and is instead sticking mostly to the idea that this is an objective correct way to do things. In that case, what you can do is limited because he isn't working on this himself. There are a whole lot of issues around that, and I think they can't be left aside for ever. But leaving them aside for now, you can at least not feed the compulsions by accommodating them yourself. The one thing you can do is not give him the drug. I think that's important for both you and him.

 

[Promicarus]

I want to learn more about how it makes him feel when things are done "wrong", so I can understand his reaction better. It may be just me but sometimes I think he is close to tears when a thing is done wrong. While it is hard to tell how he is feeling because he has a pokerface my intuition tells me "he looks like he is going to cry any minute".

I'm sorry...but I just have to say this--I know that I do not know you at all...but this just "rings the bell' for me...it just rings true as the kind of statement often made by someone who is accustomed to being victimized, to the point that it's become an unconsciously taken-for-granted position in a relationship.

I'm not saying that your hubby is abusing you. I hear what you're saying...that he's soft spoken, etc. And that's great. Maybe he is just obsessive about how things are cleaned, and so feels the need to make sure they're cleaned correctly...and maybe he does it in a completely non-abusive way.

But someone making the above statement sets off all kinds of alarms for me..."I want to learn more about how it makes him feel when things are done "wrong" so I can understand his reaction better".....? Really?


What about how YOU feel? How did how HE feels about minute things like that become such an all-consuming subject in your focus? Usually, I've found, when someone is so completely focused on how someone else feels, that they need to understand it completely, in order to base all of their actions and behaviors around it....that's a VERY NOT GOOD SIGN!!!

What about YOU? It sounds almost as if being able to predict his every mood and thought is your end-all, be-all point in life, from what you've said, here. Whether he's abusive or not, becomes less of an issue, than how insignificant YOU must feel in order to need to make someone else the entire focus of your world.

I don't mean to demean either you or your relationship. I want to make that clear. If you are satisfied in it, and with your orientation to it, then by all means, who am I to criticize? But I just needed to remark that much of what you've said really sends up red flags, for me, as something indicating an unhealthy focus on someone else, at the cost of your own needs,.

Best wishes

 

[Abstract]

This is the way I see the big picture here:

Two separate issues. The first is very probably OCD/compulsion type related behaviour and an attempt to control anxiety and safety. The second very separate issue is repeatedly blaming the other person for their feelings, gaining power and self esteem by undermining the other person and not doing this in a way that shows any consideration of the other persons feelings at any point/long term.

The first needs to be addressed by helping the person to see that they are getting trapped in a compulsion - a reality check if you want. Not harshly done and with understanding is good but firm nonetheless. Go back and look at Hashi's description of her friends response to her fears around her carpet. Compassion for anyone in this much pain is right and good but sometimes compassion can tell us to do what isn't right for the person concerned. It isn't being kind if we support a compulsion. Go back to the first page of your posts again. His therapist cannot see what is going on at home and can't do this for you. He may well be avoiding discussing it too.

The second needs to be done more firmly and strong boundaries need to be put down. He needs to be faced with the fact that it is wrong and that you won't accept it. That it is harmful for you.

Lets take the wearing your pants too long issue here. It sounds like there could be obsessions about what others think and you falling. There is no simultaneous show of awareness of him invading your personal space by implying you don't know what is good for you, you don't understand things, he is wiser, better, right and you are wrong and less-than. It doesn't sound like there are windows of time where he apologises or supports your right to wear what you want to. It sounds like something that continues consistently.

 

[Abstract]

I hate to say this as I understand you love him a lot and are a compassionate person but you show signs of codendent thinking. I say that as someone who has done so in the past too. A deep sense of wanting to understand and empathising without a counter balance of looking after your own needs is a recipe for difficulties. It is also not in the other persons interest to support behaviour that is difficult and certainly wouldn't be in this situation.

rings the bell' for me

I agree with this.

I am usually conservative about the use of the term abuse and I am guided by looking at it in detail at one point. Lost pup is right to bring up the issue of free agency. Promicarus is right to bring up the issue of intent. For it to be true abuse then there needs to be some power difference and some obvious or hidden aggressive or passive aggressive intent.

I do however think others description of similar behaviours are fundamentally different. Lost Pup's wife is objectively very messy and he has tendencies to need to control his space - their tendencies clash (control versus ADD). He also does it in short spurts and shows awareness of it needing to not cross a line. Hashi is careful not to make others responsible for her compulsions even when she can't agree with their actions. Intothelight keeps her needs to control things from undermining her husband. None show actions that are long term second issue here.

Emotional abuse can vary a lot in severity. Mild emotional abuse is still that. It needs to be long term, repeated and be undermining of the other person and there needs to be some gratification for the person doing it. Saying he knows better and she is wrong when an objective evaluation of the situation is very different is gratifying as it boosts his self esteem at the expense of hers. He may not be aware of it but it is passive aggressive.

n the UK there is presently an advertising campaign against emotional abuse.

I wrote this out as it is an official example of emotional abuse and very mild and gently done. The person on the receiving end almost certainly feels that they just need to do better and there is nothing more going on.

IMT, I agree with others that have said you can probably correct most of this situation yourself by putting strong boundaries in place. We can actually teach others to disrespect our feelings without intending to. Bad for us and bad for them.

 

[Britt.f7]

I've been around a couple military families, and the cleaning thing is a big deal. It has to be done just so. That being said, I have ways that I think things should be done. I was probably more assertive about it in the beginning of my marriage. But, becoming sick and having kids has changed that perspective. You wouldn't tell a kid they were doing it wrong and "this is the right way" in the way your spouse told you. You would guide them, but not put them down. It is really hard to let that control down. My kids are older now and I still don't say this is the wrong way. My way is just different. Perhaps a little more thorough, but that is my opinion.

Frankly, I think your husband, despite being a nice guy, is controlling. That is not a good thing unless you want to be controlled. Some relationships can handle that. For years that is how my dad was with my step mom. She doesn't deal with it well now, but she did while we were growing up. He was, however, abusive. It's hard to admit that about someone we love. I hate to think of my dad that way. Unfortunately, it was the truth.

I have ptsd but I don't want my husband to kowtow to me. That irritates me more then anything. I don't want to take over who he is as a person.

 

[Promicarus]

Thanks so much, Britt.f7...for a truly inspiring post. How big a spirit it takes to not only acknowledge that one's own father was abusive...but to identify one's own symptoms, and appreciate the fact that to use them to your spouse's detriment would be dishonorable. Kudos.

 

[Abstract]

Very well said @Britt.f7 and well done. I have my own issues and the ones that I have had the biggest problems with have been related to food or contamination fears. Certain things couldn't touch others in the fridge or be anywhere near each other and when it came to cleaning, using a cloth over surfaces and then using it again, ever, would freak me out totally. I have other problems too such as plates being put in the sink, in water or not, when they have not been cleaned first. There is a lot more but I won't sidetrack this by continuing. It would be impossible to describe the level of distress that I would feel when one of these didn't happen.

I however did not and do not repeatedly, long term, show no consideration for how difficult this is to live with for others nor did I undermine them for not seeing things the way I do.

 

[Badger]

I think living together successfully is all about tolerance and mutual support. Everyone has quirks. Its about finding the person you can live with who has mutually compatable quirks. Abstract and I would not make good housemates. I am not germ paranoid and I drag stuff in from the garden to the sink that still has dirt on it. Last summer I caught a pregnant Wolf spider in my colander and I kept having to jiggle her back and forth to keep her off my hands while I ran with her to the door. Country living isn't for everyone...

The pants though, those are YOUR pants. He has no business whatsoever telling you how to wear your pants. I like long pants, I like the shredded look they get at the bottom. I grew up a skater/artist during the new wave/grunge era and that is frequently how I wear them. Anyone criticising my pants has no business getting in them right? That's what you should tell your husband.;) That will get him to be careful about what he says on that subject anyway.

 

[Queen Boudica]

I'm not saying that your hubby is abusing you. I hear what you're saying...that he's soft spoken, etc. And that's great. Maybe he is just obsessive about how things are cleaned, and so feels the need to make sure they're cleaned correctly...and maybe he does it in a completely non-abusive way. But someone making the above statement sets off all kinds of alarms for me..."I want to learn more about how it makes him feel when things are done "wrong" so I can understand his reaction better".....? Really?

I agree - that was me; I wanted to make him better because of his abusive childhood (which turned out to be a fallacy, he was the abuser). I tried so hard to do things like he wanted and please him and be the perfect wife, until in the end I was so demoralised and hopeless as nothing I did was right, he would always find something else wrong, move onto the next thing. But in my case, standing up for myself resulted in more abuse and turning it round and blaming me for being paranoid and overly sensitive as well. It was never his problem it was mine and I always provoked him. Not that this is happening here but the reaction to the floor cleaning when you complain about it rings bells.

So yes there are a things here that @Promicarus is saying as well, that alarm bells are ringing for me too.

 

[Abstract]

@Badger, oddly enough I would have no problem with carrots being taken into the house covered with dirt and spider attached! :DI am also the one that has no problem removing the spider with my hands when everyone else is freaking out. :ninja: I am actually quite untidy on the whole unfortunately so probably different to what you envision too! I agree we all have quirks and that we tend to accommodate each others to an extent and that is good. Give and take is how it should be. I also know some of my quirks are way beyond quirks and it is not good for me to indulge them nor is it good for others to encourage them. What is most important is that I not shame anyone by blaming them for my bigger than quirk stuff.

Not only is it not OK for IMT to be told how to wear her trousers but also how to shower or wear a belt or any number of things that add up to the "gazillion rules" and all because she does not know the right way to do these things.

 

[Promicarus]

Anyone criticising my pants has no business getting in them right? That's what you should tell your husband.;) That will get him to be careful about what he says on that subject anyway.

Priceless.

 

[Abstract]

I'm so dim I didn't even see that. :rolleyes: Brain is mush....