He Shot Himself...

[scout86]

Maybe it doesn't belong anywhere at all.

I just got off the phone with the wife of my best friend and unofficial adopted brother. He shot himself Sun night. He's dead, of course, because there's no way he'd miss.

He served 2 tours in Iraq, 1 in Afghanistan, and was on a "peace keeping" mission in the Sinai Peninsula for a year. He was a Master Sargent in the TX National Guard, until he retired a couple of years ago.

He & I argued about everything imaginable. He was a "recovering Baptist" who believe you went to hell if you killed yourself. I said I wanted nothing to do with that kind of god and I was sure he was wrong. I wonder if this means that I won the argument, in the end.

We also argued about PTSD. He maintained, at that time, that it didn't exist, I said that I KNEW it did, because I had it. I pointed out that he hardly considered ME to be a "malingerer". He got mad that time, which rarely happened. We didn't talk much for a long time. Nearly a year ago now after I started therapy myself, I was thinking about him, and worrying. I emailed him again and told him I was in therapy, and why, and that, much as I hated it it helped, and that I hoped he'd rethink his position on PTSD. He replied, which surprised me, and said that I'd picked the right time to email. We've talked fairly often since then. He never got help. He did get into an argument with a guy at the VA who said he had "a bad attitude".

His wife said that he never "threatened suicide", he just talked some about how everyone would be better off if he was dead. For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know better, for a lot of people that IS threatening suicide and some people don't threaten, the just do it. He's the second good friend I've lost this way. He & I had talked about the first one, during the "suicide is unforgivable by God" argument. I wish he was alive and here, so I could choke him. Where ever he is, he'd predict I'd say that too.

I hate PTSD.

 

[TimeToHeal]

I'm so, so sorry for your loss....

It has gotten better, but there is still such a stigma attached to PTSD and mental health/illness in general, that so many people suffer in silence and never get the help they need. This makes me so sad and angry, and I hope one day it will change.....

 

[franciemarnie]

I am so sorry for your loss Scout86. I am sorry for the unbearable pain your friend was in, and that PTSD can bring.

 

[Hope4Now]

@scout86 I am so very sorry for your loss. And sorry that your friend could not find a way to seek and accept the support he needed.
My heart goes out to you, and to his family.

I have lost a number of people in my life to suicide, including my father who committed a sort of "passive suicide" (my made-up word) about 6 years ago when he was clearly having a heart attack and, apparently, just let it happen. In all these cases, I had reactions that included (in addition to profound grief) the desire to choke the person because I was so damned angry at what they did, and blaming myself for not having been able to help them and prevent them from killing themselves.

May you find peace in your heart.

 

[WillyKat]

Really sorry to hear this. You were a good friend to him, that much is obvious. You tried to set an example, show him a path. Damn.

This hurts because there are a couple of people that I've tried to enlighten and they won't be enlightened. I worry about them.

You mentioned him not believing in PTSD and saying things like suicide is against god. I've found that sometimes people are adamantly opposed to something that they are completely absorbed with, like they're trying to convince themselves.

 

[The Albatross]

I've lost a couple people who also "never threatened suicide". Not just PTSD is that way but booze or other substance abusers... "silent suffers" we call them. It can be quite a shock and people are left wondering if they missed something.

My heartfelt condolences to you and your friend's wife and family. It is a shame there is not much more to offer than a sentiment that sometimes rings hollow when stacked against the depth of the loss. Just very sorry to read this Scout.

 

[scout86]

WillyKat, I don't think that was quite the case with him, although I think I know what you mean.

When we had the "suicide debate", he didn't have PTSD. That was before his first deployment. I'm trying to remember, now, where the "PTSD debate" fit in, as far as deployments go..... It may have been between the first and second. At that point, he really truly thought what he said he thought, because he hadn't seen things from the other side. He was a very competent, confident, self assured person who thought if it didn't make sense to him it didn't make sense.

The result of all that was that he was convinced that, if he couldn't handle something it was because he was somehow lacking and at fault.

I've mentioned on here a couple of times that I started therapy because I was spending a lot of time on the computer, researching "suicide" and "therapy". By what I can only describe as "luck" I happened to hit the "send" button and email my now therapist one day, rather than pulling a trigger or something comparable. (Ironically, at that point, I'd put my hand gun somewhere "safe", couldn't remember where I'd put it, and it was in the draw of the desk where my computer often is the whole time.) He and I had kind of been "communicating from a distance" for a couple of years. A few weeks after I started therapy, I got this "feeling" like I should email him. I'd been worried about him anyway, but figured he didn't really want to hear from me. So, I sent him an email, told him what I was up to, and told him WAY more about why I started therapy that I've even told my T. I gave him my phone # (in case he'd tossed it) and told him I'd ALWAYS be glad to talk to him, so he should call anytime he wanted to. He called a day or so later. That REALLY scared me! He had already sent an email, saying he thought "God was working through the internet" and thanking me for me email. I figured he'd given up the "there's no such thing as PTSD" view point, but I also figured it would take him a lot to get there, so things must be bad. We've talked a few random times since then. I sure wish he'd called on Sun! :sorry:

Thanks, BTW, for all the kind thoughts everyone. That's not exactly why I posted this, but thanks. I guess I just had to tell SOMEONE and I figured you guys would get it. And, it's kind of a cautionary tale for "supporters". If this is a disease, it has the potential to be a deadly one.

 

[Tinyflame]

Aw, @scout86 , I'm sorry. :( :cry:

I think viewpoints pre-ptsd vs post-ptsd can be very different. I relate to how he felt.

I had a similar accidental connection to help re:the internet too. Apparently it's the 'birthday' of it today, of all things.

I'm glad your friend had you, and it coincided with getting therapy for yourself. He is in much gentler hands than we can imagine, and God knows everything. It's a sh*tty painful thing, ptsd. :(

And as @The Albatross said, same with other things. I recall my dad (quietly) helping everyone, yet he struggled at one point (at least) with SI in the process of quitting drinking (I think he had ptsd), and could not stop one person (who did it in front of him). He never ever ever stopped thinking of the one 'he' lost, not the ones who all said he helped.

((((((((((((Scout)))))))))

 

[Bedbug]

Scout, my thoughts go out to you. I have no words.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I am religious, but don't believe for a second that if you commit suicide you go to hell. This belief causes suicide to be denied and kept in the closet. I know of one family who did this and it saddens me very much that they can't acknowledge the reality of the situation because the idea of their loved one going to hell is too much to bear.

I applaud you for talking about it. Silence only makes things worse.

 

[Echo]

@scout86 - I am so sorry that you would lose such a good friend in this way and that he felt it was the right thing to do. I am glad that you did make contact again, even though it was too short. You will be a comfort to his wife and a source of information and understanding that no-one else will be able to offer - not only did you know him well but you also have PTSD and can explain that. I expect you said things today that helped her very profoundly. This is such a good way of honouring his memory and the love you both had for him, to help take care of his wife.

And yes, you are right, people do miss the signals that people give, if they give them. Though sometimes there are no signals, just a shift in the brain chemistry one day to unbearable. It is not your fault; you have every right to be angry, but I hope you will also find in time that your treasured memories of this lovely man will predominate. May he rest in peace.

 

[scout86]

Thanks guys! I don't cry often and I hate it, but I've got tears in my eyes now, from reading what you've written.

I've spent today trying to get used to the idea of this world without him in it. It just seems WRONG and I don't much like it.

He & I had talked a lot about my other friend (Vietnam vet) who shot himself (under remarkably similar circumstances). He knew I was mad at Ted, but also that that didn't change how I felt about him and that I totally forgave him. (While wishing he was around so I could kill him for being such an idiot!). I suppose he expected that I'd do the same for him, and, of course, I do. (But don't anybody ELSE get any bright ideas!) He said at the time, and my T has also said, that suicide is the ultimate selfish act. It is, I guess, but as I told my friend, the view from the edge of that particular cliff is different and there are things that you just can't see from there. Like what you mean to people. The only time we ever have to say those things is "now". That's one of the most important lessons any of us ever learns.

Solara, in my own view of "God", he (if that's the right word) knows what's in our hearts and he's a God of love and mercy. There is no way that kind of God could condemn someone for this kind of thing, even if he disapproves and it breaks his heart. Which, I suspect, it does. I'm pretty sure my buddy knows now that I won that argument. If that's not the nature of God, than I don't think I want anything to do with him. When we emailed. he always signed off with "see you on the other side". It got to be a "thing", I sent him an email a earlier today, and ended with "See you on the other side". I think, some day, I will.

thanks again!