Poll Taking Things Literally.

[Philippa]

The guy is a douche. If a woman holds an ideal she IS an ideologue and divorced from her being? A woman can't have humanity and ideals simultaneously? A woman can't have a humanity that this guy can benefit from if she has ideals.

THIS was exactly what I was trying to point out to them, but they both acted like they had no idea what I was so upset about. It was bizarre.

He's a prick and one who seems to have studied to protect his own viewpoint, including his be-litting retorts to squash any feelings in those who object. I wonder if his forcibly intellectualised cold theories keep him warm at night, in his smug retaliatory spite? My guess is... probably not. And in this state he has the perfect environment to come up with more self affirming theories about women. Good luck to him.

Well, he knew he had back up no matter what he said. I've seen it before on mra sites. Even a guy out and out calling all women whores will be defended if you say something to his face about it. I've been told I was "emasculating" a guy who said this, for saying "Aw, did someone not get laid enough in grade school...or now?".

In relation to your to taking things literally, I have in the past not had the cognitive energy to keep up with people's joshing with me, pulling my leg etc. It's fatigue not lack of faculty. But do not be duped by people who veil their harmful sentiments in trussed up language so they can channel their emotion into sanitised philosophy. Actually better still just avoid them THEY ARE DULL.

Thanks, I appreciate this. I was not believing of their crap as they were dishing it out to me, but I did wonder if I was taking things too literally for a bit. I think I took it exactly the way it was meant and worded, and they are just lying little douches who set it up to twist it around and make me out to be stupid, the way they think every woman is deep down. I read one of the guys pages, and some of the comments were so comical. He considers women to all be like toddlers, so insecure and needing constant ego stroking! If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. :D

 

[Springer80]

that's exactly how it felt as well WAS....Which was dehumanizing to feminists WOMEN.[DOUBLEPOST=1401904447,1401904381][/DOUBLEPOST]

 

[Philippa]

Do you go because you feel the need to re-assert your power so you go and try and fight for it against the very people who oppose it?
I get that. I understand the feeling but you don't get justification/affirmation from doing battle with people like this.

Initially it was to try and understand what they were about. I had been directed there by a friend, or someone I thought was a friend, a few months ago. I like to see what's out there and I did let myself get a bit caught up in attempting to get them to see things from my point of view, but none of them were actually interested. The responses have all been the same. I guess I was looking for at least some adult discussion about the issues and try and find some equal ground, but it felt like I was making efforts to see from their point of view, and none was given to see mine, and it inevitably ended up with me being insulted and the whole thread being a waste of time. But that made me determined...I guess to be heard. But those people aren't listening.[DOUBLEPOST=1401905721,1401905547][/DOUBLEPOST]The video was in retaliation to that kid Elliot Rodgers, who killed those people last week. Apparently the men who were also killed did not have their names mentioned in the news...only the women who were killed...so Karen Straughn was posting a video naming the names of the men and not the women...tit for tat in some childish, f*cked up way. I made a comment that it was childish and the thread was going on some course where it felt productive and civil, until this guy came on and started saying this to dehumanize the women. When I called him on it, he said I was "either intellectually dishonest, or dull". Then his friend jumped in and defended him and pointed out that I was being too literal.

 

[Springer80]

Seriously Philippa, just stop looking at this stuff. It's like rubber-necking t emotional car crashes. You can do and probably need SO much better than all that. Possibly it's a learning thing, cutting your teeth on what NOT to get involved with. if so, fair enough but if your energy is already sapped from your condition and your likely to get upset, just don't put yourself through any more ugliness than you've already had to endure.

And remember, your douche alert is not faulty! :tup:;)

 

[Philippa]

Seriously Philippa, just stop looking at this stuff. It's like rubber-necking t emotional car crashes. You can do and probably need SO much better than all that. Possibly it's a learning thing,

Thanks. I think I just am looking for human connection really...but in the wrong place. I know it's bad for me...it's a weird form of self-destructive behaviour...I admit.

And remember, your douche alert is not faulty! :tup:;)

:)

 

[Springer80]

I know it's bad for me...it's a weird form of self-destructive behaviour...I admit.

Well it is and it isn't - weird that is. When bad stuff happens you want to understand it so you can change it. So don't be too hard on yourself. Just don't end up like Karen!!:eek:

 

[Philippa]

Now I'm just spinning back into "what's wrong with me that I'm even putting myself at the level of these people?

 

[Springer80]

Hey, why don't you look on-line for men who are feminists (aka nice) and ask them about their values and why they hold them? They probably say what they mean as well, so you won't have to worry about the literal thing!

 

[Philippa]

Well it is and it isn't - weird that is. When bad stuff happens you want to understand it so you can change it. So don't be too hard on yourself. Just don't end up like Karen!!:eek:

She's a strange one. She sounds VERY sure of herself and whilst I can understand that many men feel like they are disposable and redundant these days, and there are issues that need addressing on their side of the fence as well, like suicide, homelessness etc....and I was wanting to learn more about these things...what I found is that so many of the guys in these groups are like the ones I mentioned, and you cannot have a reasonable discussion with them about anything without it devolving into an attack of some sort.

So yeah, she's creepy. Some feminists may be over the top and put the rest to shame, but some of the anti feminist women mras are much much worse.

 

[Springer80]

"what's wrong with me that I'm even putting myself at the level of these people?

Careful with that.....there isn't anything wrong with you. I used to scour papers and cut out all the articles that were misogynistic or about child abuse or rape. I needed to catch them all and keep them as evidence because nobody seemed to care or do anything about them. I wanted to be able to redress the balance. In so doing I triggered and strengthened all the horrible truths I had learned because of my experience and felt more and more powerless and second class.

You probably spar with these guys because you want to win, cos if you win then your back on top. It's not weird. It's doesn't make you defective.

 

[Philippa]

Hey, why don't you look on-line for men who are feminists (aka nice) and ask them about their values and why they hold them? They probably say what they mean as well, so you won't have to worry about the literal thing!

I do know at least one or two. I do find them nice, but at the same time, some of them can come across as just playing nice so they can get laid...and some even seem like they've lost their balls or something? I am friends with a male feminist at the moment...sort of seeing him but we both have our intimacy issues, so it's not as often as I would like.

I was exploring what else was out there, but I feel like I've lost perspective a bit, and my head has been done in by it all. I'm just confused. In some ways I get annoyed with the feminists I know but I'm definitely not interested in joining forces with the douche brigade mra's. The feminists I've known all seem to brow beat anyone who doesn't immediately agree with what they have to say on certain subjects, and I've experienced that first hand. I know they aren't all like that, but that has been my recent experience, so I feel burnt by both sides actually.[DOUBLEPOST=1401906854,1401906711][/DOUBLEPOST]

You probably spar with these guys because you want to win, cos if you win then your back on top. It's not weird. It's doesn't make you defective.

That sounds about right.[DOUBLEPOST=1401907002][/DOUBLEPOST]I kinda wish I'd never gotten involved in any of it now. This guy I know was trying to get me involved with the mra, because he could see that I empathised with men on issues about male domestic violence and rape and how they are not considered to be important or 'as bad' and therefore invalid...and I felt like I had to "keep up" with the latest, because I've been so out of touch with what's going on in the world that I literally had no idea. But now I wish I'd just stayed that way and didn't look into any of it.

 

[Springer80]

I feel like I've lost perspective a bit, and my head has been done in by it all.[DOUBLEPOST=1401906854,1401906711][/DOUBLEPOST]

Sounds like you need to just chill and rest and not try so hard for a bit?

By the way, I consider myself a feminist. Not a card carrying one but one just the same.