General My Partner Had Very Severe Ptsd. Please Help Me

[aaaaa1]

Hi Solara, thank you very much for your comment. I take your point with regard to the alcohol. I won't make any excuse for her, but for me it's moderated a bit by her sincere apology, showing she understood that it was wrong, and by the fact that it didn't bring up any symptoms with it. (Of course, there's still the issue of my feeling unsafe, and betrayed; you're completely right about that).

Without wanting to pry into your life, may I ask about one thing you said?

PTSD doesn't typically manifest in such a manor and then suddenly go away with a cessation of drinking and hours of CBT a day. I'd say that MOST of us with severe PTSD have one symptom or another for life. We don't suddenly revert to being normal again.

I suppose in one sense it didn't go away 'suddenly' -- there was months of work before it did, and some lingering strange behaviour even after the episodes stopped. In another it did -- after one huge blowout, no more serious episodes, just healing. I've read various medical papers about CBT and PTSD, and have come across conclusions like this: '78.3% of clients showed full recovery from their PTSD symptoms and no longer met criteria for PTSD after 1–3 sessions of imagery rescripting and reprocessing therapy [and additional CBT work].' Are you saying this isn't the case?-- or that you can 'no longer meet the criteria for PTSD' but still 'have one symptom or another for life' (just below the threshold of PTSD)?

May I also ask about dissociation? Is it uncommon with PTSD? When you say it isn't *just* PTSD, what else are you referring to?-- not challenging you on this, just trying to remedy my own ignorance.

As for her drinking: if she got very drunk, she would often become confused, paranoid, and sometimes hostile. She had a problem knowing when she had become too drunk and needed to stop drinking. And if something triggered her, she would often begin to drink, I imagine as a way of trying to numb the extreme emotions she was feeling. One consequence was that if I ever found that she had been drinking (even a relatively small amount, a couple of pints of beer, or glasses of wine), it was a very clear sign that a serious episode was on the way. On the other hand -- she didn't drink while at work, or drink in the morning, etc. -- it wasn't that sort of problem drinking.

 

[Lucycat]

I am still confused by the alcohol issue here.

You state that she was abusive when under the influence of even small amounts of alcohol when she was unwell. You have not said she is alcoholic, addicted or dependent on alcohol. (so I don't see how this equates to a drug addict.)

She has had successful treatment for her illness and is well and symptom free. However I understand that the relationship is in difficulty. Looking from where I am sitting it would appear that she has changed a lot - for the better, but I understand your apprehension about 'how real' that change is.

I think it an entirely mature attitude on her part to 'test the water' in having a drink, in a public place, within the safety net of a friend's company. I appreciate that you have an agreement that she will not drink, but I see this as a misdemeanor rather than a major crime. A breach of trust that hardly warrants the reaction of being exploded at in the street. She wasn't drinking secretly, she wasn't drunk, and as you say yourself there was no affect on her from the drink. So - just maybe -now that she is cured of all her symptoms she is able to have the occasional drink if she chooses without abusive outbursts. Doesn't she have the right to find out ?

It seems you will allow her to be 'cured' of PTSD, but not 'cured' of her abusive outbursts with alcohol although they have gone.

 

[aaaaa1]

Thank you for your input. I'd be very grateful if you'd be willing either to withdraw from this discussion or to help it move in a more constructive direction -- I'm really looking for people to share similar experiences (so I do not feel so alone), or to help me understand the things that happened when my partner was ill, as outlined in the questions I ask at the end of my post. I've found your contributions either abrupt and unconstructive ('This makes no sense', of a statement which was both simple and true), or focussed on taking me to task over side details from my account. Doubtless you are right that there is a helpful way that we could explore her changed relationship to alcohol -- we are in couples counselling, and could have discussed it there, for example. Doing it in secret after having explicitly promised that she would not is a very different thing. I do not think she was 'addicted' to alcohol, but she was certainly dependent on it to deal with very minor sources of stress, and, as I mentioned, it was a factor in her (emotionally and physically) violent outbursts.

As someone who has experienced violent domestic abuse, I'm very happy that she has been cured of her abusive outbursts; but I do not think you are being very empathetic if you do not understand that going through such violence, and for such a prolonged period of time, would cause difficulties and hangups for me. Nobody deserves to be exploded at in the street -- I agree. It happened to me, more times than I can count, infinitely worse than my own outburst, and I would not wish it on anyone. But, as I detailed above, I am having a lot of difficulty dealing with unpredictable, uncontrollable feelings of anger and pain. I know that I should not feel like that. I'll die if I continue to feel like this all the time. Being told that I shouldn't does not bring me any closer to understanding what happened, or what is happening to me now.

 

[blackswan]

@dog_party, it sounds like there is a LOT of trust that would need to be won back in order for the two of you to re-establish a romantic relationship. An ex of mine used to fly into drunken verbal rages at me and it took me a long time to learn to trust my next boyfriend when he was drinking, I can only imagine how much work it would have taken to learn to trust my ex again in that situation.

I suppose it comes down to which you would regret more: working at this relationship for a few years and it not working out, or walking away now and building a new life? There's no correct answer in situations like this, just paths that lead us to the best possible future.

As a side note, a lot of my boyfriend's PTSD symptoms are only triggered by events in our relationship and only occur in our home. I'd be wary of assuming that just because your lady is symptom free now that she will remain symptom free, especially under the stress of repairing and maintaining a relationship.

 

[aaaaa1]

@dog_party, it sounds like there is a LOT of trust that would need to be won back in order for the two of you to re-establish a romantic relationship. An ex of mine used to fly into drunken verbal rages at me and it took me a long time to learn to trust my next boyfriend when he was drinking, I can only imagine how much work it would have taken to learn to trust my ex again in that situation.

Thank you blackswan, I think this describes what I'm feeling very well. I would have enough difficulty adjusting to life with a new person -- I'm very uncomfortable being around anyone drunk, or around anyone who doesn't show a lot of respect for boundaries -- and I've found adjusting to a different, better life with the SAME person to be extremely difficult.

I suppose it comes down to which you would regret more: working at this relationship for a few years and it not working out, or walking away now and building a new life? There's no correct answer in situations like this, just paths that lead us to the best possible future.

This is my dilemma! I find it very hard to think happily about the future right now, and I'm hoping that being able to spend the next few months trying to become well and happy on my own will give me a clearer picture of what I/we ought to do. If you have any advice on this front, or if you've found anything particularly useful in coping with the difficulties that you've been through, I would be very grateful to hear.

As a side note, a lot of my boyfriend's PTSD symptoms are only triggered by events in our relationship and only occur in our home. I'd be wary of assuming that just because your lady is symptom free now that she will remain symptom free, especially under the stress of repairing and maintaining a relationship.

Could you tell me a little more about this? We've experienced some pretty bad stresses since she recovered -- moving house, some horrible situations at work, and my ongoing depression probably being the main three, and in each case she has borne up well. I mean, she's been very stressed, but not in an irrational way, if you know what I mean -- just taking bad events the way anyone would. Certainly I'm currently the person in the relationship that has ongoing difficulty managing even small stressors (becoming very angry while driving, responding badly to big crowds of people, being unable to deal with more than one person making a request of me at a time -- all things that I never experienced before, all things that I hope to be able to reverse!)

She was certainly triggered by events in our relationship in the past, but generally deals with things very well now. Do you mean that, in your experience, this state of affairs might not continue? Do you think that she could 'top up' her recovery and coping strategies by re-entering therapy at some point?

On a side note: the trauma that caused her PTSD was a serious accident, not connected in any way with our relationship -- not even similar in any of its features. The exact circumstances would be incredibly unlikely to recur in our ordinary lives. (It is not like, for example, a military veteran being seriously stressed by loud noises, or vehicles, etc.) Is it common for someone to experience such serious episodes because of things that aren't directly to their initial trauma?

 

[Meadowsweet]

It's interesting to hear that your girlfriend had PTSD from a single trauma. I think it is more common for someone to recover from single trauma PTSD. It would be unusual for someone who had not experienced interpersonal abuse, to be having such severe reactions to a relationship. In addition, dissociated flashbacks, as I understand them, tend to be quite significantly related to trauma. This is what makes me thing that there is something else going on with her.

For this reason, the abusive side of her personality would still worry me. Some abusers can be very charming and be perfectly genteel, when it is in their interests to be so. So I think your wariness is a healthy response to what you have been through.

I'm not sure if you are accepting that you have been abused by this woman. If you can look at it another way - I have PTSD from numerous counts of interpersonal abuse, and I have never abused anyone. You are suffering depression, and experiencing anxiety about this womans potential to abuse you again, but you are not abusing anyone. So PTSD, depression or anxiety are not responsible for long term relationship abuse, it is the person behind those conditions that abuses.

There are cases, when a person may become abusive during a flashback because in their mind they are fighting someone attacking them, but from what you've said here, even this isn't the case with your girlfriend as she wasn't attacked, she had an accident. I don't know if she sustained a head injury or any brain damage during the accident? That may cause black-outs and violent outbursts, but if it was brain damage, it wouldn't be cured with a few months of CBT. So again, I would be suspicious about putting her abusive behavior down to her PTSD alone.

I think perhaps, if you can get help for you to accept the extent of her abuse and how it has effected you, you may be able to see more clearly, and be in a position to make the decision of whether you want to choose a relationship with her, or not. But your mind needs to be clear and awake to the signs of her becoming abuse again..

 

[blackswan]

My boyfriend developed PTSD as a result of domestic violence as a child so I obviously see big big differences in our situations. Aspects of domestic life are triggers for my boyfriend, but in addition to that just being in a relationship adds to his overall stress load. Have a look at the PTSD Cup explanation in The Vault section of this site (I think it's in a general understanding PTSD article by Anthony), it articulates this idea better than I can right now. I just wanted to point out that symptoms can re-surface and that it helps to be prepared for this as a couple (if you're a couple).

And I have no specific advice, sorry. My general advice is to look after yourself (which you're doing already), to build the life you want to live so that the right person is just a welcome addition rather than a central building block (which you're doing already), and to know that from this place all paths are painful... which sux... so it's about figuring out for yourself which painful path gets you where you want to be. You'll get through this though :) one day this will be past and you'll be looking back from a much happier piece thinking, "Holy expletive, I'm glad that I never have to do that again".

 

[aaaaa1]

This is a very kind and empathetic reply, thank you Meadowsweet. I don't want to give away any personal details about either of us -- we're both quite private people -- which is why I haven't spoken in much detail about her trauma. The serious accident (during which she was extremely close to death before receiving emergency treatment) was the main trauma, but it's important to note that she was working in a geographically remote, very isolated community, which also sounds to me like it was an extremely intense, passive-aggressive place. During the incident she was neglected by the people who were supposed to be taking care of her, and afterwards she was blamed for it in very intense, religious terms, for six months or so. It was an utterly random thing that happened, but it was interpreted by the people she was with (and, consequently, her, at least while she still lived there), as being entirely her fault, entirely directed at her on account of her personal faults. She no longer believes any of that, of course, and has no interest in that sort of aggressively evangelical, charismatic personal religion. I'm not an expert on this subject, but I would imagine that the isolation, neglect, contempt, and blame that she experienced must also have been contributing factors in turning a harrowing event into an ongoing disorder. From what I understand, the memory reconstruction that she undertook was related all to the events of the single day or so during which she almost died.

Do you think that this might account for so many of her triggers being social in nature?-- she didn't experience 'direct' abuse, but certainly was treated terribly, and by people who ought to have been looking after her.

So PTSD, depression or anxiety are not responsible for long term relationship abuse, it is the person behind those conditions that abuses.
There are cases, when a person may become abusive during a flashback because in their mind they are fighting someone attacking them, but from what you've said here, even this isn't the case with your girlfriend as she wasn't attacked, she had an accident.

So, when you write this, do you think that the interpersonal element I mention above might be enough to change what you've said? I've often wondered exactly where the emotions of hatred, paranoia, and rage that she showed during episodes came from -- she has spoken about feeling betrayed by the people she was with, terrified that they were letting her die by not helping her get medical attention, and furious at them during the event.

I think perhaps, if you can get help for you to accept the extent of her abuse and how it has effected you, you may be able to see more clearly, and be in a position to make the decision of whether you want to choose a relationship with her, or not. But your mind needs to be clear and awake to the signs of her becoming abuse again..

What you say is very sensible. I think that over the last couple of years I've made a lot of progress towards understanding what happened to me -- at the time I barely knew, and never admitted to myself what was happening. She's also come very far, and recognised that it was abuse, and talked about the guilt that she feels for putting me through it. I think that I interpret ordinary things that she does as signs of her becoming abusive again. I often feel like the only thing that could help would be to know for %100 sure that it could never happen again. Certainly the evidence for that is good -- her behaviour since she recovered (that drink aside) -- has been sincerely kind and loving. But perhaps you cannot know for an absolute certainty, with anyone, and so perhaps that means we can't be happy together.

ps I just want to add -- when you say that 'some abusers can be perfectly charming and genteel', I know exactly what you mean. It made being with her when she was sick so confusing -- her alternating, for example, between saying 'Please tell me when what I do is hurting your feelings', and blowing up at me terribly every time I did (I did not realise then that it was always when she was having an episode). All I have to say about this is: there is a great difference between her kindness now, which is low-key, supportive, and directed at my needs, and the sort of charm and kindness she showed back then, which was histrionic, excessive, and demanding ('Let's get drunk!' or 'Let's [suddenly] go on holiday!'). Does that make sense? Sorry if I've been unclear before, and sorry for any confusion caused by not explaining her trauma properly.

 

[aaaaa1]

My boyfriend developed PTSD as a result of domestic violence as a child so I obviously see big big differences in our situations. Aspects of domestic life are triggers for my boyfriend, but in addition to that just being in a relationship adds to his overall stress load. Have a look at the PTSD Cup explanation in The Vault section of this site (I think it's in a general understanding PTSD article by Anthony), it articulates this idea better than I can right now. I just wanted to point out that symptoms can re-surface and that it helps to be prepared for this as a couple (if you're a couple).

Hello blackswan! I just read the cups article, and found it very illuminating. Actually it also sounds to me very much like the way I feel -- like ordinary things are much more than I'm capable of dealing with without blowing up. I know that I didn't experience anything on the order of the sorts of traumas that other people here have suffered, but I think it's possible that I have got a mild version of something similar, having been through this sustained period of unpredictable hatred and hostility from a loved one. Certainly it takes very little -- the dog barking while I'm trying to drive, my partner talking to me while I'm trying to concentrate on something else -- for me to feel certain uncontrollable negative emotions, all out of proportion with what's actually happening.

What the cups metaphor has not made clear for me are some other aspects of her behaviour during that period (things that have also gone away since she became better) -- the cruelty, the arrogance. I would imagine that some of them must have stemmed from her feeling out of control -- that she used them to mask serious worries and insecurities. Even so, it was very poisonous.

My general advice is to look after yourself (which you're doing already), to build the life you want to live so that the right person is just a welcome addition rather than a central building block (which you're doing already), and to know that from this place all paths are painful... which sux... so it's about figuring out for yourself which painful path gets you where you want to be. You'll get through this though one day this will be past and you'll be looking back from a much happier piece thinking, "Holy expletive, I'm glad that I never have to do that again".

This is very generous, thank you! I haven't taken good care of myself in a very long time, and I'm trying to work out how. Some days it's easy and other times -- like this weekend -- it seems almost impossible even to get out of bed or make food for myself. I really look forward to looking back on it all from a happier place ...

 

[blackswan]

The Interpersonal situation around her trauma sound additionally traumatising, for sure. It sounds like you were together during the truly acute part of her illness and who's to say, without absolutely all the details, what contributed to what in what way.

It sounds like you two have come so far together :) something to be proud of and reflect on fondly no matter whether your romantic relationship continues or not.

A final point before I go to bed, if you get back together she is going to have to be comfortable with wearing you sometimes over-reacting to what were previously the warning signs of her abuse. Over time as trust re-develops this will lessen, but you can't just tell your brain "everything is safe now" and have it be so. You can learn strategies to ensure that you have these discussions in a respectful and safe manner, but those fear feelings are valid and those conversations will need to happen. You both have to be fully on board to ride through the inevitable rough seas ahead to be together.

 

[aaaaa1]

Thank you blackswan!!

 

[blackswan]

...ok, two final final points ;)

Secondary trauma - it's a thing. I can't remember if you said whether you're receiving individual therapy as well as the couples counselling, but it sounds like you would benefit from having individual therapy as well as the couples counselling.

A system under stress cracks along its weakest points. Under stress I work til I break them become agoraphobic, neglectful of self care, reclusive, and glad that the liquor store is further from my house than I'm able to travel because I'm feeling agoraphobic - all highly useless coping strategies that I learned from my family of origin when I was small. The extremes of your lady's behaviour could have nothing more to do with PTSD than being what oozed out of the cracks when she was placed under the stress of PTSD...