Wondering About Some Peoples Perceptions Of What Being "attacked" On Forums Means?

[Philippa]

I really loved both these last replies. Thanks guys for your input here. It helped a lot.

I especially agree with joeylittle, and was reflecting on this myself yesterday...just the way I tend to jump straight to assuming that if I feel pathetic in relation to something then it must mean I Am pathetic, but catching myself and sorting out the fact from fiction is an ongoing process.

I think you're right in that we all tend to over identify with our thoughts, and also many many people do not read the words on the screen...they brisk over them and jump to conclusions. It is then almost impossible to convince them once they think they are right about something, that they aren't.

People make meaning out of words in their own head and forget to check if it's the right meaning or not...they just assume it's right, and most people don't want to hear or consider that they might be wrong, because being wrong is tied up so closely with feelings of pain and failure, they just can't handle it. The funny thing is we are ALL wrong so often. :D

But you put it all in a way that really solved this puzzle for me. :)

 

[Philippa]

I'm not surprised when you say that, on the other forum, everyone went after you and dropped both concern for "demon hunter guy" AND the poor person who was in trouble to begin with! I've seen that, but I don't get it at all. (I think I would have cringed at Demon Hunter's post, then ignored him and addressed OP, but who knows?)

That would probably have been a better way to keep the peace, however, this guy was really being very bossy and telling the poor guy what he needed and trying to be the hero and it made me more than cringe, it made me react by saying I thought he was doing this to make himself look good and didn't care about this person who was suicidal at all, which was really off. Maybe it was the only thing that gave him a sense of purpose in his life and made him feel like a hero, but either way it was off.

It's a strange phenomena when group dynamics take hold, that's for sure.

 

[BlueOrange]

@Philippa , it does seem to me that you did the right thing in that other forum. I've seen things that are similar to what you describe, and the fact that many people value 'lack of disturbance' over 'good content' causes a lot of harm.

Please be careful about one of the things you just said, though:

it made me react by saying

It's a very normal way of speaking, but part of slowing down our responses and making sure that they are well considered is to recognize that our reactions are our own responsibility. Nobody made you react - you either chose that reaction, or you're in the habit of that reaction. Subtle, but important.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I've seen people who were in pain being challenged on something I considered irrelevant

I do this (aren't we all in pain though?....not targeting) and I don't apologize for it. Why? For the simple reason that people oftentimes come on here and complain up, down, left, right and sideways that their problem is the sky being blue. They'll go on and on and ON about how their problem is that damn blue sky! They are SO focused on the sky that they can't see that the sky isn't the problem, and that the sky never was the problem. They can't see the true, underlying issue. If someone else with an outside perspective doesn't point that out, are we really helping them at all? Is it really helpful to simply advise them on the blue sky issue when the color of the sky isn't the real issue at all? Its like throwing a Band-Aid at them when you could instead give them a solution to the real problem. Cover up versus problem solving. Which one would you choose?

And I know a lot of people don't like this style, and say I'm not being sensitive or whatever, but it is what it is.

 

[BlueOrange]

@Solara , I'm not advocating cover-ups, I'm saying that these issues are not as simple as they might appear to be.

Sometimes, we might see someone and think that they are missing the point. When we do that, it's possible that we are the person who is missing the point.

Sometimes, we might see someone focussing on one problem, and we think they should be focusing on something else. When we do that, it's possible that we are the person who is making the mistake.

Sometimes, it's not helpful to call someone out on a particular topic, because their coping resources are fully consumed by the topics that they are already dealing with.

Paying too much attention to the pain can cause serious problems. Not paying enough attention to the pain can cause other serious problems. There is no 'one size fits all' answer.

 

[anthony]

If someone else with an outside perspective doesn't point that out, are we really helping them at all? Is it really helpful to simply advise them on the blue sky issue when the color of the sky isn't the real issue at all? Its like throwing a Band-Aid at them when you could instead give them a solution to the real problem. Cover up versus problem solving. Which one would you choose?

I choose help them solve the problem. Saying that... there are times for bluntness, there are times that wording needs to be a little less harsh. Working out when to use them respectively is the issue IMHO...

 

[joeylittle]

Its like throwing a Band-Aid at them when you could instead give them a solution to the real problem. Cover up versus problem solving. Which one would you choose?

Problem solve. But with a certain amount of humility; after all, it's unrealistic to think you can truly pinpoint the real problem every single time. It's just the internet; it's really easy to be wrong when you're relying on people to self-disclose and you can't see their face or hear their tone.

I think the danger for anyone who has spent quality time in the mental health system is that we are all biased to our own experiences, there's no way around that. And we can be very, very certain that we know what we are talking about.
And then we can end up actually fighting for our own point of view on the situation, rather than contributing useful insight.

I think it's just because our knowledge base about this stuff has been very hard-won, and it's easy to confuse what we know with who we are. It's easy for it to get very personal, very fast.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Like I said, I don't apologize for my response style. It is what it is, take it or leave it. I get called out in shit when I don't like it so I see no reason to coddle anyone else, even if they don't like it.

I just think it's a shame that so many people (ok, maybe not many, but enough) are here for abuse issues and then they go on to slander someone all over the board. THAT, to me, is abusive and I think it's disgusting. I won't fight back in a public place and slam the other person, so of course you end up with people who support the gossiper by saying things like "we know all about your issues with so and so". Funny, as my issue with this person went down outside the forum yet lots of people here know about it? Yeah, people need to grow up and look in the mirror. You deserve no help for becoming your abuser as these types of people disgust me, as do those who support them. Can't you see? Your abuser won. You are now them! Congrats.

 

[anthony]

Aren't you kind of doing the same thing that you say you don't like from others, by mentioning and obviously having a dig at somebody here?

 

[scout86]

@Solara for what it's worth, I have no idea who or what you're talking about and couldn't care less.

I don't think anyone should feel they need to apologize for their own personal style. Differences in style, outlook, and experience are a reason we can all be valuable assets for each other. There are times, to use the old children's story, when someone really needs to say, "But the emperor isn't WEARING any clothes!" (I often do that by accident, because I'm not smart enough to realize I "shouldn't" say anything. LOL)

To paraphrase something my T has said. We can act truly out of love, or we can act out of fear/anger/the desire to hurt. He says the important thing is to do a reality check first and be sure you're acting out of "love". He says "if you get the energy right" usually the rest will sort itself out. I guess that's my personal guideline for "calling someone out". Am I truly doing it because I want to help? Or am I doing it for some aggressive or passive aggressive reason? I think, sometimes, it's hard to have the presence of mind to think this through first.

@Solara, personally, I like your "style". The way you say things, sometimes, makes me cringe, but that's on me, not you. Do you sometimes get things "wrong"? Sure, so do I, so does everyone. It's what you do after that that matters and I see you owning up to and handling the aftermath pretty well. There are conversations where your bluntness can insert reality into a conversation and let it move on to a better, more useful level. I think the same can be said for @anthony and @Philippa . Without people who are willing to be direct and clearly say stuff, a lot less good would be accomplished.

 

[Philippa]

It's a very normal way of speaking, but part of slowing down our responses and making sure that they are well considered is to recognize that our reactions are our own responsibility. Nobody made you react - you either chose that reaction, or you're in the habit of that reaction. Subtle, but important.

I agree, however, I did not say someone made me react, I said "it" made me react...the situation. I reacted to what he said.

 

[Philippa]

@Solara] Am I truly doing it because I want to help? Or am I doing it for some aggressive or passive aggressive reason? I think, sometimes, it's hard to have the presence of mind to think this through first.

I was thinking about this very thing the other day. It's also been my motto in the past to live like this, however, I can say without being proud of it that I have called people out from an angry place before and not to help them as such...to 'make' them look at themselves because they were being dicks (as I perceived it). I did not, at the time, realise I was hurting them though and did not intentionally want to harm them, as far as I can tell, but it wasn't from a place of love that it came from, and I was very angry at the time...not at them personally, but they were the misdirection my anger took.[/user]