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We Become What Our Parents Want Us To Be C-ptsd

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honey can you say stop?
That is WAY cool! I have this list I'm working on, I call it my "social cheat sheet" May I borrow that idea?

@shimmerz , I can't help but think that small children usually go through a phase where they really get into exploring the uses of the word "No!" If you don't get the chance to do that when you're 2, what do you suppose happens? (And, so what if others think you use "stop" too much? It's YOUR word!)
 
I said NO and tried to get away once when being assaulted when young, which was sadly weird for me to have a boundary at the time, but I did have one. But that failed too. But in so many cases throughout my life I haven't known where a boundary was or what I really wanted or didn't want because there was no clear and separate "me" and pain or feeling punished was simply part of my life's repertoire. That particular time when I said "no" I was able to feel myself as really uncomfortable, and then really trapped. But after that failure, I just let anything happen, for years. I don't count that among my primary traumas because I blacked out part way through, and already was self-destructing badly before that certain incident (though suicide attempts came after, so it probably mattered). It sort of beat me down further into this non-existence I felt. Sounds idiotic, but numbed out and void was a way of "existing" because it wasn't as painful and confusing.

I'm pretty avoidant these days, but I think trying to gather my "self" so the boundary things feel more clear. Or maybe I'll be a hermit forever. I probably say no to lots of good things too. In the end, my personality is always going to be pretty flexible, but I'm trying to develop a stronger base from which to make decisions. And in the situations where I probably can have a boundary and separate self, I'm starting to recognize that. I've never had a helpful friend like that @shimmerz and don't trust anyone to care that much, but that is such a good lesson. My first boyfriend in my sobriety acted like he cared but ultimately dumped me because I was too detached during sex and I don't think I've trusted anyone enough since. That was a long time ago, but I've made some good guy friends. But along with trying to figure out what of myself I should just accept, I'm still open to believing we can learn some of these basic lessons later in life. I hope. Takes so long for some of them because of all of this backing down to feel safe again and regain some sense of my self.
 
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I call it my "social cheat sheet" May I borrow that idea?
That's what this is all about @scout86 . Please use what calls to you. It's about collaboration. I would love to know how you use it if you have the chance. It pique's my interest your social cheat sheet. Can you tell us what that is about?

I had 5 children. They said NO more times that I can count. If there were things that they didn't like they were taught to say 'that is enough' if something was 'buggy' to them. I, however, had a horrible time saying no to anyone. I suppose those that can't even imagine being able to say no or stop end up having a major breakdown of epic proportions and stop functioning completely. My story. Then people have to figure out how to change their relationship with you when you figure out you can set boundaries.

At that time it is a real social experiment on who really cares about you and who doesn't.
 
I'm still open to believing we can learn some of these basic lessons later in life.
You wouldn't be here conversing and helping others if you didn't have hope @Chava. So glad you are part of this thread. I think truly, that that lesson showed me that things that were obvious to others was so far out of the realm of my existence that it took tremendous pain, confusion and someone to fill in the magic word to open possibilities - all because my parents taught me that no and stop were absolutely not an option.
 
One of the things that bothers me the most about myself is that there seem to be blank spots in my "road map of reality". There's a lot of stuff that other people seem to just get that goes right past me. A few years ago, when I was arguing with a friend about whether or not I deserved the compliment he was trying to give me, he got frustrated and said, "The appropriate thing to do when someone gives you a compliment is say 'Thank you" then shut up!" I was stunned! I mean REALLY???? Who knew? Well, obviously HE did! LOL

I decided I should just quit pretending I was operating with the same play book as the rest of the world and start keeping track of these insightful little gems. That was the first item on my list. Another time, this same friend was having an issue with his wife. She had made a mistake and was trying to deflect responsibility. He was being totally rational, not mean. She started in with "I'm so stupid, I can't ever do anything right......." Where I come from, that's a "game" where you are then supposed to set about reassuring the party that they aren't dumb, it's not their fault (even if it is) etc. He looked at her and said, "Don't go down that road with me." I was STUNNED! "You can DO that??" I had no idea you could refuse to play that stupid, pointless game. I HATE that game! How cool is that?

There was a situation awhile back where I had been invited to something I didn't want to go to. I was telling me T about it, because I was worried about having to go to avoid hurting anyone's feelings, but I really didn't want to go. He said, "Don't go. All you have to do is say that you have something else to do that day & time." I said I didn't want to lie... He said, "You DO have something else to do, what ever you WANT to do." (I can do that?) I asked what if they want to know what I'm doing? Then I have to make something up! He said that wasn't the case. First, probably no one will ask. If they do ask, there are plenty of polite ways to say "None of your business." Third item on the list!

"Stop" is going to be item #4!

My T says I shouldn't let this lack of information bother me. That, if I didn't get the chance to learn it as a kid, which I obviously didn't, then all I can do it try to learn it now. I guess.....
 
Jeez, I so get this stuff @scout86 . Things that are obvious to others where they say - ummm, nope - I just gape at. Doe eyed, it takes me a bit to realize what just happened.

I love your idea of watching and picking up on things that seem foreign to you and reassessing them. Brilliant! Thank you so much for sharing.

I am wondering, have you delved into putting the pieces together as to why these things are so foreign to you? If so, is knowing why helpful at all or are you just attempting to reprogram yourself and not be too introspective about it?
 
I said NO and tried to get away once when being assaulted when young, which was sadly weird for me to have a boundary at the time, but I did have one. But that failed too.
And this is how we lose our options for boundaries without even knowing it. It is no wonder people take advantage of us, don't understand us, yadda, yadda, yadda. Thanks Chava.
 
One of the things that bothers me the most about myself is that there seem to be blank spots in my "road map of reality". There's a lot of stuff that other people seem to just get that goes right past me.

Long before I had a therapist who saw trauma as the likely link to all my f--cked up behavior and my physical complaints, I noticed how backwards I was. Playing piano is easy. Eating and sleeping is complicated. So are all the basic human things. In college I had to learn about the Maslow hierarchy of needs and I thought it was wrong because I by-passed meeting all of the basic or human connection needs and went right for spiritual stuff. I'm not so spiritual now, and would like to be, but for a while it was like I found a way to just be removed from this human world in some ways. Renunciation in all the wrong ways, but I was trying to find a way to make it mean something, my need to not need anything. Sort of getting off topic, but my stuff always comes back to those very early basic needs and my inability to organize this stuff within myself or feel connected.

Thanks for starting the thread @shimmerz .
 
@shimmerz , I'm sort of compulsively curious. Maybe a little stuck in the little kid "Why?" stage. LOL So, I do wonder how I missed this stuff and once in awhile some insight comes along. I'm not real systematic about my list making. (I'm not real systematic about anything, or rather, I kind of have my own non-system system.) So, I look at it a little like if I was adrift in a country where I only have a smattering of the language and I'm learning through a kind of do it yourself immersion program.

From what I HAVE been able to piece together, this got started probably at birth. I had a kind of weird non-relationship with my mom. I understand some of the reasons. It was kind of a perfect storm of bad luck. I don't have a lot of specific memories, just of being afraid of her and not wanting to be around her. So, all of that attachment stuff that is supposed to happen pretty much didn't. My dad was ok, but, like most dad's of the era, wasn't around much. There were a few other people who were around now and then, neighbors, my paternal grandfather, who apparently liked me, and I'm sure that helped. (I was my parent's first child. An older gentleman who lived next door taught me how to walk. Never struck me as odd until after I started therapy!) One of my biggest memories of childhood is reacting to feeling rejected by telling myself that it was ok, I didn't really need anyone anyway...... But, I didn't see it as any kind of problem, because it was "normal". As my T likes to say, it was "How we do things around here." Except, apparently, it's NOT! LOL

I've been reading a book about "Daring to Trust". The author talks about some of this stuff. I'm a little..... I don't quite know what? "Surprised" doesn't quite do it... It just amazes me what I missed. It also amazes me that I managed as well as I did, because I can see a lot of potential of worse!
 
As a child perhaps this is apt. But on emancipation it is bunk. I am not bound as an adult to the roles assigned by my parents or family. I have choices.
Yes that is true and I am working towards that. I got stuck in wanting acknowledgement and some type of understanding, which I will never get from my family. That is life. I still get stuck in the other stuff Alba. I have much room to improve and I have come a long way. In these last two weeks I have come along way.
 
I'm not bound by any roles either and I realize that.
And that is a brave knowing.

But if simply growing up to an adult and knowing I have "choices" was enough to change everything, probably I wouldn't need therapy.
This is true, but there is wisdom in Alba's advice and statement. She is doing it. She practices challenging her own throughts and all that we have experienced, and it is not easy but she does it. Some of her thinking is outside of that PTSD thinking that we have and if we can shift just a little over to the other side of the disco floor we can see what she is saying. (I am disco themed at times, when I am not being Star Trek themed. :cool:)

Denying my needs FEELS GOOD. My whole body-self gets past and present glued together.
How is it that I can be here for so many years and not get the past and present glued together? I don't know. But your honesty is what is leading you on a healing path, value that.

Tell someone in a flashback they have "choices."
Well they do if they have choices throughout their flashback/panic attack if they have practised breathing, yoga, meditation, mindfulness, exercise, touch, smell, taste, feel and visual stimulus. I can come out of my father being on top of me and actually enjoy sex. I can stop my having things in the past glued to the present. I don't do it all the time. I still lose the plot but less so than I did, by a long shot.

You do have choices once you have really built up your skills toolbox. The DBT site is a good one. http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/

Sometimes I watch http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/instant_mindfulness.html one of these and I don't need to ring the suicidecallback line which I was ringing a bit a few weeks ago.

So though at the beginning it does seem insurmountable, and it might not get easier, so many factors influence the getting better or not, but one thing is that you can get better at managing your ability to manage your PTSD symptoms.

One way to start that is to start looking at other people's point of views and understandings. Look at mindfulness, exercise, Star Trek, disco dancing, nutrition, meditation, boogie boarding and do things that make you feel good and do them when you are crap and feeling like shite and over time you will shift what your family laid down in your body and in your brain and seriously the sooner we get rid of those toxic family dynamics out of body the better. The people who will save the planet are people like you and me and those who sincerely know what trauma, suffering and adversity are like, because once we heal ourselves - there is so much to be done to make sure that there is a planet for the next generation and that intergenerational child sexual abuse is not passed on and violence and so forth.

I am not saying if you have a panic attack tomorrow you will be able to manage it totally well. But you might manage one more minute better, and in six months you might be able to use a skill to distract yourself so you only have an anxiety attack rather than a full blown panic attack, and six months further you might use smell and touch to manage the anxiety.

This doesn't stop the need to name what happened in your family or understand it. That is important. It is important to build up a relationship with your self based in the reality of now, but also the reality of neuroplasticity means with a hell of a lot of work, practice, patience, prudence, perseverance, persistant and (if you do it) prayer you can make small incremental changes.

And it means instead of me demarcated by the people who abused you so horrendously you stay a big NO to them by leaRning to do self care and self emotional regulation bit by bit.

I am perhaps not the best person to give advice as I got stuck in avoidance and trauma based thinking for many, many years, but I am improving now and it is important to see what people are doing what, and how they share what they are doing and then taking some of the bits of their daily programs and modify it for yourself.

I will not give into my family's scapegoating of me. I will stand on my one two feet and I will treat myself differently than they treated me - not saying it is easy or anything like that, but it is doable.

Early trauma for some people is sort of an ongoing gluing of time like that, but often on a body or deeper personality level.
Yes so it is crucial to work out what works for you and what strategies you need to put in place. We have to work harder on our self healing because there is no person "before" the trauma so we have to heal and create a personality and self at the same time. This is unfair. It is hellishly difficult but it is so important to do. Those abusers can't win by us spending the rest of our lives stuck in the trauma, hoping like little children that if we freeze, fawn, fight or go into flight that some how we will get some crumbs of love, care and connection. It didn't happen and it won't happen if we don't step up to the plate and really take on what is inside of ourselves. We have to build a relationships with ourselves and we have to do if for ourselves, as hellishly disappointing as that is - when we grab our own power we can have love, care and TLC that we were on a stravation diet from throughout our childhood.

Knowing I have choices helps.
It does indeed.

But it's not like I knew how navigate them.
Me neither and I could use some choice swear words describing how frustrating it is not to know how to negotiate my choices throughout my life. What a waste of my time and energy! Oh it is so sad. But practice is the key here. In small and mindful ways, practice 5 minutes per day. 1 minute at 5 times per day and really notice that and then build up on it. It works - it really does. (Quite hilarious that I am writing this as I was totally frozen on the couch most of last year. But sincerely don't waste your life the way I did by getting stuck in all of this. It is important to understand it, to sit with it and to grieve it, but don't let that be it - then the next step is action. Nothing comes of nothing as my psychiatrist says to me most sessions. If all my pain and suffering could help even one person avoid the years and years of being stuck like I was, it would make it worth it in some small way.

I chose to be in relationships. I didn't have boundaries.
Oh sweetheart I so feel your pain. I had disasterous relationships and I was so all over the place I lost many good people. I also didn't have boundaries. I am learning now. A little bit of a boundary each day builds up over 30 days to a significant boundary. I must be honest that I am slipping and sliding more than I am walking but gosh it is so much better. (Very messy at times, though!)

I chose to have boundaries and isolated myself.
I did that last year and spent most of the year on the couch. It wasn't much fun.


Call me a dumbsh#t, but I've needed help navigating all of my options and finding my "self" within them.
I struggle with this each day. And there is no need to call any one a dumbsh#t, just challenged because you didn't get the basics. It takes time to assemble the basics.

I chose to take better care of myself and the energy turned into chronic pain...so that, combined with not wanting to space out so much (never my choice), helped me choose to ask for help.
That is great. Chronic pain sucks - been there as well. And asking for help is very important.

But also seeing that the creativity as a child that you used to survive such a family - well you can use it as an adult and change your life, not overnight as it could take a year or two but you can do it.

You are brave to talk about such things.

And if none of this is helpful then discard the content and keep the TLC that underpins my writing today, and perhaps the content will be more relevant in 3 or 6 months. You are on the journey, we each have to find our own way.
 
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the man that donated the sperm that created my existance wanted for me (him).
Mine has pulled a lot of swifties and has been hassling other branches of the family and also did a whole lot of public stuff. I have been using the term the man that donated the sperm that became me but I haven't seen anyone else use it. Tis Great!
 
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