Relationship He's Pushed Himself Too Far

[scout86]

@owl1982 , you probably don't do "short" because you have a lot to say. That's ok. It doesn't really sound "sick" to me. I suppose in the technical,
mental health" sense. there might be a whiff of "sick" about it. But, if you're trying to build a life out of broken pieces, I think you might have to be creative and that creativity is a good thing.

I'm not quite sure where to start. From what you said about where this guy was/is starting from, we have some things in common. I'm in the process of trying to figure out "why I was born" and how it compares with "why most people have kids". My mom is in her mid 80's and is sure she had me to make her happy regardless of how impossible that is or she makes it. Long story, hard to explain. My T says I don't owe her anything and it's better for me to establish some kind of limits to avoid her toxicity. Last night I told her I'd call her next week instead of today & made her cry. "What do you mean it's not my job to make her happy? Why can't I do anything right?" LOL Oh well?

You CAN'T talk to him directly or he doesn't seem to want to talk to you? I think, somehow, he needs to hear this stuff, and it would be best coming from you. My opinion, standing over here in a relatively safe place, is that he needs to hear it from you. I think he CAN hear it, given the chance. Could be messy though. And it could be that you are at a point where you need to be very brave and risk everything by telling him. I don't believe anybody climbs out of the black hole of silence alone. Someone has to give them a reason, pass them a ladder, throw them a rope, dangle a bath towel over the edge so they have SOMETHING to grab on to to make the climb a little easier. And, actually, the fact that there's someone at the top of the hole who wants you out could be a reason to make the climb. You still have to make the choice yourself and are responsible for doing the climbing.

On your "last vet" story...... Last Mar, one of my best friends and my unofficial adopted brother shot himself. He came back from his first (of 4) deployment "not really the same person". I spotted it fairly early and, because I'm not good at subtle, called him on it. Led to a huge argument. We barely spoke for a couple of years. I kept emailing him jokes, mentioning that he couldn't "unadopt" me every now and then. Finally, shortly after I started therapy. I sent him a very direct "I'm worried about you and this is why" email. I got an answer. He got my point (finally). He went in for help (that he didn't actually get, which is another story. The last few months of his life, we talked a lot. I had a lot of hope, but there were other problems too....I don't know that it HAD to turn out the way that it did. But it did. BUT, I think not giving up was the right move, for me at least. I understand that there's a kind of pressure that comes from some kinds of pursuit that's not good. But I also think that there's something about being able to believe that someone cares about YOU, just the way you are, and accepts YOU just the way you are, in spite of everything, that's pretty hard to pass up. (Not saying it's impossible.)

As far as anyone following ME? I kind of doubt it. It's possible that there'll be a day when my path crosses with the right person and things go better than they have in the past. I'm not holding my breath! Meanwhile, I'll just keep exploring the path. :)

 

[GG-love]

@scout86 - Do you think it is better to keep in contact so that they know you are still caring? I struggled with some things last fall and my counterpart finally called me on it. I didn't realize how bad I was and what I was doing to those around me and it brought me back to a place I needed to start a healing process again so I know it can be a good thing. I just am wondering if its all about timing?

 

[Owl.]

@scout86 - Might just be that there's someone running behind you who just hasn't caught up far enough to be noticed yet. Keep exploring, stop and smell the roses occasionally, give them time, they'll get there. :)

On to a different (same old) tune: A state of "mental health" is not something any of us can expect to reach, and that is something that's very hard to come to terms with some days. Today is one of those days.

The sun is shining for the first time in forever, it's Sunday, I slept okay-ish and yet the only thing I can do is look out the window, thinking about how I know he'd love to be out for a walk now, about how I hope he is, about how f***in' much it hurts that I'm not walking with him, all that shit. It's all about him, and some part of me does realize that I'm doing the very same thing he is as I'm ignoring texts, IMs, even calls and just shutting myself into my little cave of misery over my guilt about somebody else. It's a damn slippery slope here, and it'll change again because it always does, but my doc's going to have his hands full with my guilt-trips for a while.

It wouldn't be as bad if I could at least explain myself. You're absolutely right, he does need to hear my side of the story, but I cannot do it in person, he didn't pick up the phone when I tried to call a few days ago, and there's a 12-page email (that much for not being able to do "short"!) I spent a week writing and rewriting in an attempt to explain where I am, where I came from and where I would give several vital organs to go from here.
It has now been sent, against every instinct I had, because I couldn't keep sitting on it any longer. Maybe he read it, probably he didn't. Maybe he deleted it right away, maybe he's keeping it for a better day, I don't know, but it's the only way I can reach out and at least hope to get through and get him to grab hold of that sad, droopy vine that is me trying to pull him out of this...eventually.

His last words to me (via WhatsApp, no less) were "Lose my number."
I deserved those, I really did, that was a freakout of epic proportions coming from me and he'd sat through it much longer than I would've already, but when that's the last thing you hear, it's a little hard not to be terrified. All I really have to go on now is everything he's said and done in the past and the fact that he didn't block my number and our picture still is up in his profile. Really not a lot to give a girl hope sometimes - but as long as he doesn't slam all doors in my face, that'll probably have to be enough.

As for my "last vet", J - it had to end the way it did. It may sound cruel beyond words, but when he passed, I felt nothing but relief.
There wasn't anything left of him, he knew it, he hated it, and even with therapy, he never managed to get a hold of even a single shard of himself again.
He's at peace now and the pain is gone, for him, that was everything anyone could've hoped for. I'm really sorry for your loss, though. I had the luxury of distance, not sure I could've handled it if I hadn't.

J sent me away when we both realized neither one of us would ever be going back to being who they were before, and I was at a place in my own mess where I couldn't do anything but go. By the time I'd gotten better, he was too far gone for anyone to reach.
I did, however, swear to myself then that I'd never give up on anyone I loved ever again, so that's what I'll have to try now, any way my man'll leave open for me. It hurts, it's bloody terrifying, and it feels like, no matter what I do, I can only make it worse by either making him think I've forgotten about him if I don't get in touch, or by pushing him away when all he needs is his peace if I do.
Pity, party of one.

I suppose Isaac Asimov worded it better (and shorter!) than I ever could.
However, I continue to try and I continue, indefatigably, to reach out.
There’s no way I can single-handedly save the world or, perhaps, even make a perceptible difference - but how ashamed I would be to let a day pass without making one more effort.

I'm writing down my thoughts and all the shit I'd tell him if I could because I don't think I have it in me to email him again. Maybe one day he'll be back to read them.

One day, "one more effort" might just make the difference.

 

[scout86]

Well, if it helps at all, putting myself in his place.....If I was totally serious and really wanted someone to lose my number, I'd have blocked theirs and changed the picture. That's just me, mind you, but I find those 2 things to be a bigger deal than they might seem to someone else.

I'm crossing my fingers, hoping that sending the email was exactly the perfect thing to do. Again, putting myself in his place.... I come from the place of "I must have been KIDDING myself (AGAIN) to think that anyone would want anything to do with me......." (Don't want to go any farther down that road at the moment. There's other stuff going on here too and the road is too close as it is. LOL) Anyway, in that frame of mind, finding that someone doesn't want to give up, no matter what you said or did, can be frightening and annoying and pretty cool all at once. I've thought about this quite a bit, because there are so many posts on here from "supporters" having problems with "their sufferer" isolating. For ME what gets to be a problem is the kind of "rescuer" or someone else, who is demanding in a way I can't cope with at the moment and then won't take no for an answer. A person who either
"gets" where I'm at or is willing to just accept it and sit with it, THAT is ok and actually kind of nice. Does that make any sense? Does it resonant at all with your own, personal experience. The other thing is, I keep getting told that the way out is NOT to cut off all contact with the rest of the world, it's actually to find a way to be IN the world that's manageable. I hesitate to encourage people to not respect boundaries, because sometimes you want to isolate because others don't respect boundaries. But, every good wall has a door in it. I figure there's no harm in knocking.

I'm glad you sent the email! I think it's better to try and fail than to not try. It's important to listen, but you seem like you do that. It's equally important to be sure of what you're really hearing. Like "Go away and leave me alone." MIGHT mean exactly that. But, in some versions of the universe, there's an implied "for your own good" or something attached to the end of that that needs to be addressed. You, after all, should be able to chose for yourself what's "for your own good".

I've actually had pretty good luck with those emails that I sent and then regretted. It's how I met my therapist! LOL

One day, "one more effort" might just make the difference.

Absolutely! And you never know unless you try!

 

[scout86]

@GG-love that depends. (How's that for an answer?) One of the themes I see on this forum the most is people assuming they know what other people are thinking. That's fine, if you're right. Seems pretty often people AREN'T right and then go off on faulty assumptions.

So, I view PTSD as kind of being the filter through which I view the world. I'm the same person I'd have been without it (and I've had it pretty much my whole life, apparently, so I have a limited concept of "normal") but I see things a little differently.

I think, as in any relationship, people with PTSD need to know how others really feel about them. For me, trying to figure OUT what other people are thinking is an extreme source of stress. That could be a bit peculiar to me, because I got started down this road with a mother who likes to play some weird mind games. But, I really think, for most people, having to guess about stuff is a source of stress. If someone has something to say, I REALLY appreciate it if they just spit it out and don't make me guess.

So, if someone were to say to me, "I love you and I miss you and I'll sure be glad when you feel up to checking back in again." That would be wonderful. They are stating their feelings clearly and unmistakably, they are allowing me to feel however I do without having to defend myself, they are not making demands, but they have made a suggestion there at the end that leaves me room to reply without making it too complicated. Personally, I could get that message a lot, no problem. And I'd probably reply to it. What gets to be a problem, and can be really over whelming, is being asked to explain, give a time line, tell them what they did wrong (and the answer is probably "nothing"), stuff like that. That just involves too much complicated thinking and there are too many ways it can go wrong.

I don't know if that helps at all. And, again, that's the way I see it. Everyone is an individual and you'll get different answers from different people. A good idea might be to talk through some of this and come up with a plan BEFORE things blow up. (Between blow ups?) But, be sure you listen and hear what you're told. I guess it's a different way of seeing things, so doubt check your understanding, don't make assumptions.

 

[Owl.]

@scout86 - (Booooy, are we keeping you entertained here!)
He wasn't (100%) serious in telling me to lose his number, I know that.
He's the kind of person who will decide to draw a line, cross it and never look back, taking every step needed to get what he truly wants when he's serious about stuff. It's how he cracked my walls, it's how he got rid of his father, it's what he did when he decided to quit his job. Analyze what it takes - make the decision - take every step necessary.
So, yes, still being unblocked, even if he doesn't read anything I have to say right now (because he most likely can't) isn't the worst "sign", and neither is the picture (he's still talking to other people on there, after all).

He knows I can match him for stubbornness (and anger. And temper. And nagging. And rudeness, crudeness, paranoia, lack of self-confidence...).
He also knows (because I spelled it out to him in ways even a man can understand, no offense to anyone) that I refuse to give up on him. Right now probably simply is a time where he cannot quite comprehend or accept that. I'd like to think he still has that email, even if he followed the subject line and is putting off reading it "for a brighter day".

I'll admit the fact that my own coping-mechanisms are so very different from his own and it's a godawful time of the year for both of us anyway made me make all the rookie mistakes this time. Couldn't quite control my fingers before they could type stuff that probably hurt him even more to read than it hurt me to write. I might have left wounds that will take a long time to heal, but regret doesn't make sh*t undone.
All I can do now is be what he needs me be - which is absolutely silent. Not gone, staying off the grid would probably send him right into yet another spiral of guilt and worry, but silent...for the most part, seeing as I so spectacularly failed at that when he first withdrew (from me only, at least) this time. He doesn't seem to be past forgiveness for that, so there's that.

Guess the best thing I can do now is leave him be, see if he reaches a place where he can read what I sent him and know it's my heartfelt truth when he gets home from the hospital, and try to come up with a sane, gentle and loving way of saying "Stay strong, you can do this, I believe in you and am right here when you feel like talking" on his mother's birthday.
...preferably without the capslock-ragey "I LOVE YOU, I MISS YOU, I NEED YOU!!!" my heart wants me to send.
I suppose sometimes, the head does need to win out to get what the heart wants. :)

 

[scout86]

I agree, you sent the ball back into his court, what happens now is up to him. I kind of did that with this last friend I lost. (He was the SECOND vet/PTSD buddy I lost to suicide.) Told him what I thought. Stood up to him and made him mad when everyone else was afraid to. He stormed off. I said, "You can't get rid of me THAT easy!" He really could have been my brother, we are/ were a lot alike. Anyway, over the next year or so, I kept running across stuff that I thought he'd like and I'd forward it to him. Without much comment. Maybe a "thought you'd like this" or "saw this and thought of you". After I "solved" a debate I was having with myself between "suicide" and "therapy" but impulsively hitting "send" on an email to a potential therapist, and had enough time to realize how easy it might be to impulsively do something else., I wrote him a long email beginning with "You may never speak to me again, but YOU NEED TO HEAR THIS..." He heard it that time. He was probably ready to hear it. We had a year of being friends again after that. It didn't save his life, of course. And, I'd like to think his life could have been saved, if things had gone as well as they CAN go. But, I also get what you said about there being a time when that's probably not true.

You could go with "I love you, I miss you, I'm thinking of you" along about his mother's birthday. (?)

 

[Owl.]

It's way too rare for things to go as well as they CAN go. In a perfect world, none of us would have to deal with any of this crap.
I do believe we're still the lucky ones, though. We're still here, and able to drag ourselves out into a new day every morning, hard as it may be sometimes. Too many others were not so lucky, but we've survived so far and at least we can still feel the pain.
Funny when you've reached a point where feeling hurt is a positive thing.

I'm not entirely certain the L-bomb should figure into anything I send. There hasn't been a single occasion where I told him I loved him without hearing it from him first. I felt it, I showed it (whenever I wasn't sinking fast myself), and I want to think he knew it, too - I just have a very hard time saying it first, and I want him back, not give him his second stroke. ;)

Got a few days to decide how to say what I want to, without actually saying it (Ha!). I'm still not convinced it'll be a good time to reach out, he'll be pretty raw, but given how he mentioned the date and its significance for him about a hundred times, ignoring it completely probably would be even worse.

 

[KwanYingirl]

@owl1982. Perhaps you can hang some lace curtains on your cave and bring in fresh flowers. Soften the sharp corners.

 

[GG-love]

@scout86 - I totally get what you are saying and that is where I kind of messed up this past week in seeking to understand and at the same time accept. I was replaying it today and figured out that I have emotional OCD or something... I just hope that in time I can be forgiven. I didn't want an assumption made of my feelings either. Thanks for advice it helps calm the storm.

 

[Owl.]

@KwanYingirl - I'm trying. :)
Doesn't help much that the holiday season is not exactly a favorite of mine and it's hard to avoid getting forcefully covered in tinsel, but there are some things with the potential to brighten up this mess a little. Can't give up trying to live my life "just" because he cannot deal with his right now, right?

As a bit of an update: I ran into his therapist at the grocery store this morning. We know each other from the time he asked my vet what caused the sudden change of heart and my guy just dragged me along the next day to tell him "This. And now let's fix this shit." (Always so subtle. And patient with his own progress...not sure why I'm as surprised as I am that he did what he did now.)

Obviously he couldn't tell me anything about how my man is doing, but after a round of "Hey, how are ya?"s (and a fairly obvious lie for my answer), he sent me on my way with, "This is not the time to give up, young lady."

Funny what a simple line like that can do when it's coming from someone who should know. Doesn't make the waiting game any easier, but If that man believes there's a way through this for my guy, I guess I can, too. :)