General Is A Civvy Ptsd Group Good For Combat Ptsd

[Deleted member 28812]

First of all I am sorry for being hyper and having so many questions lately but your advice has already helped me so much making decisions and soon I will have asked any question I have and becaome less hyper.

So we are from another country (see little flag, I don't mention the name here because I don't want people who aren't registered here to see it. We have few Vets and I don't want anybody to guess who I am. I would be mortified if somebody who knows me would read what I write here. I mentioned it in other posts but that was not a good idea. Please don't mention the name of the country if you answer).

We don't have so many ressources. There is a support group which was founded by the mother of a Vet. They have an online discussion board. Unfortunately some people used it for "political discussion", discussing the pro and contra of a military intervention... or rather only contra as they did not see any pro and unfortunately those people chose use ugly words when talking about our Vets. They believed in freedom of speech and letting those people have their opinion and let them post there.
That was a while ago. I am not sure if they are still there because I don't go there. I would hate to have to read those people's uninformed opinion again.

I happened to met some other spouses online but then I told them a personal story about my husband which hubby didn't want them to know and he was mortified and ashamed and did not want me to see them anymore.

I joined a civvy support group (both sufferers and supporters). My hubby decided not to join. There was a bad group dynamic. I was under the impression that the people were being very negative, seeing everything as hopeless and I was under the impression that they didn't really want to work on their symptoms or find a solution but rather liked to be down. There was another problem. I am shy when meeting people face to face and there were some people who were really wordsy. One woman, let's call her Rebecca often interrupted me when I was talking and I thought "Why don't they even let me finish a sentence?". She implied things like my husband being sexually abused. My husband has no memory of being sexually abused. I told her so but she did not even listen.

I couldn't relate to many of the things discussed such as problems with sexually intimacy and did not like their negative world view. There was nobody who struggled with crowds which is hubby'S worst problem (to my mind) Hubby has mild PTSD and had a bad time but is already getting better.

Sorry for being so wordsy. While this board is great I thought that I might going to the meetings of the support group again or I might opt against it and I don't know yet how to decide.
What would you do if you were me? How would you deal with "Rebecca"?

Have to add that hubby is opposed to the idea of support groups and thinks I am wasting my time.

 

[Anarchy]

Hi Lemon Tree,
A couple of thoughts, I'm not in any face to face group, or therapy. I'm also not military.
I'm in touch with people here via PM and with others outside who I can relate to.
I think with group dynamic, you get to put up with what the group is, and from your description, it seems that group want to keep helping each other to dig their hole deeper, happy in their misery. shrug your shoulders and leave them to it.

Wanting to withdraw and isolate is one of the symptoms, and the decision to come out of that state cannot be forced from outside. trying to force or cajole will only cause a further loss of self agency.

Judith Herman describes conscripts returning from Vietnam, setting up their own "rap groups" where that could get together and discuss and come to terms with what they had seen, been through and done - with others who could relate to those experiences.

As well as friendship in the face of outright rejection by the wider community, the rap groups allowed the former conscripts a safe environment to re find their self agency, and to explore the limits of their own responsibility, even for revenge attacks and war crimes which some of them had been a part of (Is it any wonder that the VA, NHS etc want to control "treatment" now!).

There is a great deal of commonality in the symptoms that we experience - however we came by our traumas, but, there are also some differences. eg I don't know if anyone who hadn't been in a boarding school, orphanage or a prison, could relate to some my experiences in that area. people who didn't have early traumas probably cannot relate to some of the dissociative states and abiding feelings of anxiety. I doubt that I could fully relate to, or have sympathy with some of the military stuff, but perhaps some of the refugee population where you are could relate to it?

If the volountary groups in your area allow one individual to shout down or talk over others, perhaps ask the people who are respectful if they'd like to meet another evening in another place, and in a manner that is more respectful of individual opinions?

 

[Neverthesame]

I am not a vet either, but I would imagine the coping tools learned from therapy, would be applicable to a vet. May not be as effective, or it may not matter as far as treatment. I would guess going through the VA would probably help him open up being able to talk with people who understand what combat is.

As for Rebecca, I can think of one simple, easy to use tool which may help dealing with her. Duct tape. Best of all it's inexpensive. ;)
If your not keen on that, then it might be an idea to raise this issue with the therapist running the group, as they may not have noticed that you weren't done speaking. The therapist may take a more active role in regards to moderation within the group.

 

[Owl.]

Seeing as we share the same "problem" with our country of origin and I'm well aware of the discussion board you mentioned and all its downsides (yap, they're still at it and no, I don't frequent the place for that very reason, although I've been in touch with the founder a couple times), I'll just put in my .02.

This country and PTSD, at this point in time, DO. NOT. MIX.

For some reason I'm never going to understand, there's always those like "Rebecca", who will blame all the misery in the world right down to the hunger in Africa on sexual abuse and refuse to even consider that that may not be the case. With as few (known!) cases of combat-PTSD we have, it seems the only traumatizing event some people can imagine is sexual assault, as it's considerably more common. Especially the "Rebecca"s don't seem to understand that, contrary to everything the media's been trying to tell us for years, our soldiers don't (and didn't) just smile and wave for the cameras or hand out food to starving children in war zones. Your average "Rebecca" doesn't have a goddamn clue, and WANTS to live in that little world she's created for herself.

I don't know what her backstory is, but there's a "Rebecca" everywhere you turn with an issue like this. Maybe they've all gone through sexual trauma, but I somehow doubt it. They've just built a world where the worst thing that can happen to somebody is sexual assault and NOTHING ELSE could possibly compare. They look at their own fears and project them onto others, then refuse to let anyone put cracks into their castles of glass by telling them that there are other problems out there. Does this make any sense at all?

The thing is - these people are not doing anyone any good. If you can manage to ignore her and believe the rest of the group might be helpful to you, yeah, go back.
However, you already said it was a bad group dynamic. Surrounding yourself with people with nothing but negative attitudes about the whole recovery process has a huge chance to hurt much more than it could possibly help. Add "Rebecca" to the mix and you've got yourself a place to go to be dragged down. I sometimes wish there was a group for me to go to here, but then I imagine that most people who would attend one are just like the folks you described and decide to stick to these forums and my own private support system. We don't need any more negativity in our lives, dealing with the Beast is hard enough without that.

So to answer your question: No. If I were you, I would not be going back. Especially since you seem to be looking for people who share your husband's symptoms and aren't finding them there. (A fear of crowds, while common, isn't necessarily the first problem that comes to mind when you ask people which of their symptoms they'd want to get rid of the most. Both Guy and I have that fear, but there are many, MANY others that pose much more of a threat to everyday life, so we wouldn't even go there until all of those had been fixed, which they might not ever be. So it doesn't surprise me too much that the topic wouldn't come up in group meetings.)

Ultimately, it'll have to be your decision, but I'd go farther even than your husband did and not only say this group sounds like a waste of time since it isn't giving you what you seek anyway, but say it has a real and strong potential to drag you down, and that, in my book, just won't do.

 

[Ronin]

I don't think it's a good idea to look for support for a partner they may not be interested in, and had a bad experience with. And I'd be reluctant sharing anything personal about a partner said partner may not be comfortable sharing, much more careful if it's about own service & personal life and how they work together or not.

If for no other issue, two: boundaries & limits of own understanding. You aren't likely to know what is, or isn't, 'too sensitive' for him in regards to his job. You'd need to discuss that with him, and discuss that BEFORE talking about him or his life.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I don't think that group is a good one, and I say don't go back. I have been to quite a few groups over the years. In my experience, MOST people don't really care all that much about getting better. Yes, some do, but others just see it as a place to b!tch and it is a very negative environment. I gave up on the local groups around me because of this. It gets old trying to help others who are struggling but they just shoot your suggestions down. And, if your healing is ahead of theirs, oftentimes they don't have much to suggest to you. If you could find a vet group, that might be much better as there is a bond amongst vets that others with PTSD just don't share. I don't mean to segregate out the types of PTSD, but its the very reason why there is a combat PTSD site associated with this one.

 

[anthony]

Groups are excellent, but based on the one you're outlining, that is more unhealthy than healthy. Groups for mental health, trauma of any kind, have to be heavily moderated by someone with a strong personality to avoid exactly what you have outlined, being a negative environment, everyone is down and only talks in that manner, and the list goes on.

Online is no different. This forum is one example. The best examples though are depression forums. Heavily moderated depression forums can show the main disorder of what makes people down, but reading the forum will show that in a more upbeat fashion, a healthy fashion, one that instils and highlights growth and healing, not wallowing in misery. If you put a bunch of highly depressed people in one place and allow them to all be negative, what you get is all of them feeling worse together, even to the point of suicide.

AA is the classic and most common face to face group which instils growth and healing in the group members, even though it is alcohol related, not trauma, the concept of moderating groups is the same. If the group wallowed and was one of misery and you left feeling worse about yourself, then chances are nearly all the members would leave and go to the pub for a drink, being the contrary to the groups aim.

Groups have to be as positive as possible, otherwise you're entering a situation that will likely make you worse. Good groups may make you feel worse about some aspects, highlight symptoms and such, as this one can increase them, but if you're facing things and working towards a positive outcome, growth and healing, they are mere side effects. Again, like AA, you feel worse before feeling better when withdrawing from alcoholism.

 

[Deleted member 28812]

I'm well aware of the discussion board you mentioned and all its downsides (yap, they're still at it and no, I don't frequent the place for that very reason, although I've been in touch with the founder a couple times).

@owl1982: Did you mention to her the "political discussion" taking place at the boards? I think this is hurtful for our Vets. My hubby would be heartbroken to read it. I thought about joining the political discussion telling them why I think their arguments are flawed but was afraid to make things worse.
It could have encouraged them to come in greater numbers or spend even more time discussiing politics. I hoped they woould get bored and leave after a while if no attention is paid to them.
I felt pissed after a while of having to read their stuff and left. Why don't they choose any other board for this type of discussion. here are military boards for those iwthout PTSD. I never met this type of political activist there. @anthony : Did activists like this happen to come to this boards and where banned or is this just not too common in the anglosphere?

@owl1982: Talking to our fellow countrymen I rarely mention my husband has combat PTSD. I tell them he suffers from an anxiety disorder. I just don't like the fact that some people will use it as a starter for a political discussion.
How is your Vet doing? I know he was not doing to well this winter. I hope this has changed after the holidays.

 

[Deleted member 28812]

@Neverthesame and @anthony: there is no therapist leading this group. It is led by two sufferers and this might be one of the problems. I mentioned to them that I think Rebecca is a little overbearing because she did not just interrupt me but also did the same to other people who at this time seemed to be in need of help. The founders see the problem but didn't want to intervene because she was not calling names or being rude, she was just overbearing and didn't let people finish their sentences and that's not against the groups policies.

@All: I think this group just drags me down and you are right to suggest that participating does not make any sense then. My main goal is to solve problems. I don't want to talk about how bad it makes me feel but find a solution. Otherwise I am wasting my time. I am unhappy about the fact that there is no good local support group where I can talk in my language, and REALLY meet the people... that kind of meet where you can shake hands and go for a coffee afterwards. So it's this group or none.

 

[Anarchy]

So it's this group or none.

There are other possibilities open, if you want to pursue them; such as starting your own group.

 

[Deleted member 28812]

There are other possibilities open, if you want to pursue them; such as starting your own group.

I don't have the time, money, leadership ability or experience and I have two children to care for and I would hate to be so "exposed". Im am sure that my husband would hate it too. We like our privacy.

 

[Owl.]

I did not mention the soldier-bashing going on on those boards to her, no. That place is intended for supporters, not sufferers, so there really isn't much that is off-limits there anyway as you can't really tell who's simply hating on the military because a loved one got hurt and who's got a different agenda. I just don't go there because it (sadly) is such a toxic place.

There really is no need for a soldier to stumple upon those boards in order to feel the hate of some, though. It happens in the streets.
I was wearing Guy's uniform jacket when we were running errands one day because I'd forgotten to bring one and was freezing my butt off. Ended up with three ladies in my face, getting a proper earful about how all soldiers are killers and how I'd "deserve to die for dropping bombs on innocent people".

Guy didn't take it so well. Not the part where he (through me) was being called a killer, it's what he thinks of himself anyway, but the part where I was attacked (damn near physically, too) for doing something as normal as wearing my boyfriend's jacket. That moment did a LOT to convince him that he was no good for me (or anybody).

That's the frame of mind he's still in today. We're in some sort of weird limbo where we both want to be in this relationship and neither of us can. A lot has happened to me in the time he's been dark now and at this point, I'm too symptomatic myself to even consider dragging anybody else into the picture. We're both stuck in our own messes we can't and won't load onto the other's shoulders and need to figure out for ourselves how to touch ground again before anything else happens.
Who knows what the future holds, but for now, I've started to refer to him as Schrödinger's Vet. Boxed up tight, and until we're in a position to check what's what, both mine and not mine. :)