Structural Dissociation?

[shell]

I am reading that somatoform reactions are held in the EP rather than the ANP. They speak about 'dissociative attacks', which is a new phrase to me, although I do suffer from them. They are, from what I have read, a recording of trauma events displayed through body posturing etc.

I am wondering if each of you suffer from somatoform issues and whether these can be used to determine when the EP is 'out front'?.

Yes I have become somewhat aware of dissociative attacks as you call them, I experience them upon waking from dreams and nightmares, when I wake up, I am already switched, everything is fuzzy, feels strange and I will experience pain or feel things that are not "me" so to speak, like pain, touching, etc.

When I am talking in therapy, even though I am not scared of T in my head, my body is. My T said is it like my body is still in trauma mode, physically I am very withdrawn posturely, on alert, tense ready to flee but mentally I am very connected with her, and not overwhelmed. My head and body are disconnected, even though I believe I am safe and okay, my body experience is a very different thing, I feel like I have run a marathon after each session, or like I have beaten up and physically hurt, standing after a session is painful. A lot of my abuse was very physical, so maybe that is why I have so many of the somatoform issues, but they fortunately aren't triggered as much any more, except at night.

I now am focusing more on somatic therapy, which has really helped me be more aware of physically what is happening, my body numbing has decreased, as has my reflux, and on going back issues, which I have had for years.

I now know the EP was out front in a session with an older T, when I lost my full eye sight until he was able to help me ground myself, it was really frightening when he was there and then I made him disappear, and I couldn't see, but I don't always experience it like that. Mostly my T is brings my attention to it, because she sees it, but for me it has always been there so I am not as self aware, unless it is a very painful episode. It's not always possible to distinguish real pain from the other, the only way I know it is different is that I can make it disappear

 

[Eleanor]

I don't mean to throw a curve into this conversation, but I am curious... I've recently wondered if my ADD isn't actually dissociation in action. Don't get me wrong, I think ADD is a real thing, and I'm wondering if there might be more than one kind. Given several responses on another thread about ADD drugs, I'm wondering if they suppress EP's or somehow for a time magically integrate them....

@shell a question about pain. Dissociation from actual physical pain is a regular topic of conversation in our house. Neither my H nor I are particularly good at self care, and we both regularly just "shut off" how we feel physically to do stuff that needs doing or even that we just want to do. It is unconscious and kind of automatic. So could you say more about

but for me it has always been there so I am not as self aware, unless it is a very painful episode. It's not always possible to distinguish real pain from the other, the only way I know it is different is that I can make it disappea

?

 

[shimmerz]

I've recently wondered if my ADD isn't actually dissociation in action

@Eleanor , when I had my meltdown I went from hyper focused to ADD like symptoms. Yes, I believe this may well be EP activation, if I am reading correctly what you are proposing.

 

[greenleaf]

I do wonder if the pain relates somewhat to these parts (emotional or EP and ANP) trying to synthesize into some kind of whole.

Hi Chava, I have had a few short periods where I thought I was aware that some fairly chronic muscle issues were directly connected to old emotions... then the awareness vanished again though. I have no idea if what might be going on with me, is at all similar to what is causing your pain...

I get deep itching in some of my left-side muscles; these used to just be totally tight, and I didn't realize that was due to abuse stuff, I just thought I was not flexible. For a couple of very brief periods recently I became aware that I was actually tense in some muscle areas due to an old feeling fear and tension; this set of feelings has a completely isolated feeling that I had a lot in my middle childhood when my brother was being violent, parents weren't dealing etc. I have been getting more familiar with that set of emotions so I can connect it to a time period more clearly. The feelings of absolute isolation are a good indicator that I'm experiencing that stuff, I think, as it really doesn't match my current situation if I try to look at things logically (whatever that means.)

Those couple of recent, quick periods where I could sort of feel the old fear and feel my muscles tensing because of it, I was also somewhat analyzing it with my adult skills I think; it was a strange sensation. I'm pretty sure I can't do this on purpose, it happened and then stopped. "On purpose" is a weird phrase with this stuff; maybe I mean, my ANP isn't in control of it? hmmm

Could be why the muscles keep freaking out, maybe those emotions are what that "EP" feels, but the EP is mostly not integrated into my current self? So "she" never relaxes and "my" muscles freak out.
@Chava -- muscles that aren't firing and/or relaxing properly can really cause a lot of pain, is this possibly part of what you go through? -- and things like myofascial pain and fibromyalgia are not well understood yet. .. just "correlated" with childhood abuse and such...

 

[Chava]

Yes, primarily painful spasms and constant over-firing or shitty neuro-messages. No fibromyalgia but pain sensations might sometimes be similar. Also hives if pain gets too bad or exhausting. But also my spine is curving in wrong direction in some places, not normal age-related changes. Discs are okay. Just no stability. Basically among other things, I am not activating my core. I'm a pile of jelly. Regressive, eh? But also, for the muscles that are over-activated, it's an easy self-protective response. Think of how a very small person would protect themselves if they could not run or fight. Core caves in, back tenses.

 

[Pencil]

Core caves in, back tenses.

OMG, what an eye-opener! Thanks for that.

 

[shimmerz]

Crazy though this might sound, I started having panic attacks (first time ever) when my acupuncturist loosened my frozen shoulder (right side). It is important here to note that I don't feel pain conventionally, instead, parts of me just 'don't work', thus the shoulder was frozen, not in pain.

Once she had unlocked the shoulder and I was able to move it, I started having these crazy dreams. In waking hours, if I moved my shoulder too far I would faint. One night, in the form of a flashback it came to me why my shoulder was affected and why I was so sensitive to people invading my left peripheral view. They were tied together. When I was very young, my abusers would pick me up (using their right arm) and freak on me and scare the crap out of me. Since they used their right arm to lift me, I would see them peripherally from my left side as I was twisting frantically to the right to try to get away from them. There was a reason. Once I knew the reason I could challenge it. I did exercises to loosen it up more and more acupuncture but this time with awareness. Sort of an exposure therapy.

I still freeze through my back but I know now that if I stretch it out and breathe fully and use imagery to replace whatever is going on inside of me, that the feeling comes and goes.

I also notice when EP is activated that my right foot gets pigeon toed, like a child that is just learning to walk. Only my right foot though. Not sure what this is about but am certain it is something to be aware of in moving forward.

 

[Eleanor]

"On purpose" is a weird phrase with this stuff;

Yes yes yes!!! Just cheering here because it is SO hard to figure out what this ordinary stuff really means in this context....

Once she had unlocked the shoulder and I was able to move it, I started having these crazy dreams.

My massage therapist reports that this happens to him/his clients with some regularity. He will get something to release (he does "body work" in the same sense that guys in the automobile garage do "body work" only on cars.) and then there will be a big (often shocking to the client!) emotional outpouring. He is very matter of fact about it. Hangs out and offers calm support to the client until they settle down, then gets matter of factly back to work. He says he's once or twice called someone to drive the client home.

My T has me talk to parts of my body. Or rather, she has me ask them questions and see what they have to say. We had one notable session where I cried so hard (sitting on my deck) that (sorry for the graphic) there was still a pile of snot on the boards several hours later. It worked tho, I can't remember what it was about exactly. Others not caring about me maybe? That is usually the big ticket item. On that occasion some bit of me or other had something to say and she has me/it say it over and over until the energy "shifted" and I could say it calmly. I can now sometimes do this for myself on my own. She calls this "clearing" the energy.

Core caves in, back tenses.

Roll up into a ball. Tuck and freeze. FEAR and PANIC at once. An excellent defense for little creatures. Make sure you thank your body for having done exactly the right thing to protect you. :tup::tup: Remind it that it doesn't need to do it now. Poor little thing. :(

 

[Pencil]

Remind it that it doesn't need to do it now.

But this has permanently affected my posture. I try to get my core to 'toughen up' - to no avail. I think I walk like a gorilla. my body is ALWAYS uncomfortable - don't quite know how to explain it. I can't find the 'right position', ever - whether walking, sitting or anything, really.

 

[shimmerz]

@Pencil, I have had hunched shoulders since the beginning of time. I tried everything to repair them. I literally could not force my shoulders back. Unfreezing them did it. Be very careful though. My very carefully constructed world came crashing down around me. Every single flipping element of it. :eek:

until the energy "shifted"

Locked energy is a big part of this I think. Shifting it allows it to move out, ideally. What a great story @Eleanor! So glad you got that bit moved around.

 

[Pencil]

I came undone when I went to postural integration therapist. It was frightening.

 

[Chava]

Crazy though this might sound, I started having panic attacks (first time ever) when my acupuncturist loosened my frozen shoulder (right side).

I'm not against massage or bodywork but personally very cautious. I had a really good massage once, loosened up some horrid knots in my back. I felt a little fuzzy and delirious afterwords. I woke up in the middle of the night in a very creepy panic, wanting urgently to destroy myself. No more massages for me. A little myofascial release and stretching on my own. But if a bodyworker thinks they can get rid of all of my tension and help me feel better, at least I know that's not really how it works for me.