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Structural Dissociation?

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Interesting.....I had NO idea about my trauma when I had the work done. It was for carpal tunnel (I was concerned for my job as I couldn't use my right hand the way I needed to). The acupuncturist had NO background in trauma and was less than sympathetic. I advise if anyone does have body work done that they ask the healer if they have experience in trauma.

Anyway, when I started reacting, I said to the healer 'this is about when I was two' (meaning before my adoption. I just blurted it out! It surprised the heck out of me. I have no idea how I knew that, because everyone had told me this really nice story about it. Fascinating stuff.
 
I'm jumping back in here after a wild few days in my life (good and bad, depending on the perspective). I've not even finished reading everybody's posts yet. Will respond a few at a time. I read The Haunted Self over the weekend. On Monday night, I had a total dissociative break that ended as I came out of it with like an hour of violent vomiting and then I slept. The whole thing scared the hell out of me, but it also seems to have jarred something loose which is good, I guess. I think it was the culmination (I hope not the beginning) of a process that started a couple of months ago. Maybe because of starting on medication which is soothing a bit of the phobia about my whole situation. Anyway, for the first time, I've wrapped more than just my head around this notion of having PTSD and parts of oneself. The part of me that has refused to accept that any of this is real seems to have let go of its vice grip a little.

Yesterday I read Jeannette Winterson's book, Why Be Happy If You Can Be Normal. I strongly recommend it.

They do not merge together at all but I am conscious of them both, making me 'different' from DID. It seems that integration will need to focus on my emotions. Ewwwwwww!
This is what I thought too (maybe still think...not sure). Except that I have realized now that the part of me that's conscious of what's happening is not my SELF (I'd thought it was) but is actually a pretty complicated observer part. It doesn't have any emotion at all. Which is why I've finally realized it is not my SELF (which, according to my therapy approach has compassion, etc.).

My ANP desperately wants to be consistent in specific areas. I make lists, I draw up schedules, I set alarms. The problem is .. the EPs don't give a rat's arse. They have OTHER priorities, and they, consistently, want OTHER things. If there is no continuity, there can't possibly be consistency. It is in high stress situations that consistency become EASIER, not more difficult - for the simple reason that when under pressure, one of the 'parts' stays present.
I've struggled with this all my life.
I guess SD is the Lazy Susan Theory of Personality.
:laugh: I love this analogy!
I feel like my EP (who struggled to stay alive in the most primitive way) has a death wish. It is a passive one (like wandering outside to freeze), but she is fighting against my ANP, who actually wants to live.
I have a couple of EPs like this. One has an active death wish (scary scary), others have more passive ones. Generally, my ANP(s) seem to be able to wrest control back from them before much damage is done. Having children helped this a lot--still does even though they're older--it's as if part of me suddenly sees what I'm about to do and says, "Oh, no you don't..."
But I've noticed recently that my feelings of wanting to die are NOT totally mine (or not like comprehensively mine) but come from a place of powerlessness. So I'm doing whatever I can to take some action, however little or uncertain, to remind myself that I am not stuck or powerless. I don't want to die either. And I feel less like I'm fighting a part of myself that wants to passively die. But I am really fighting the pain, which is starting to feel too much like "me"...like a takeover.
This is so good you're noticing this, all of this! My passive death wishing EP comes from a powerless place too. (My active one comes from a much more toxic place that I don't really understand yet...have only glancingly touched on it in therapy because it is pretty well controlled and has been for a long time). I fight the physical pain too. It is definitely a part. Not sure what yet, other than fear, fear, fear.
 
I would be really interested to know what it feels like to those of you who do not lose all executive functioning. Can you describe it?
Will you describe yours too?

Here's one example of what happens to me: I am sitting at my desk at home, making a list of things to do for the day before I go to work. Then I get really tired and spacey. Then I put my head down and feel like I can't move. Part of me (observer part?) can see myself and feel myself sitting there. Doesn't really feel like it's me even though I know it is. Other parts of me are yelling, "Get up and go to work!" and "You're nuts!" and "What's wrong with you?" and "What would people say if they saw you like this?" Still other parts are crying, or feeling like they're sinking down into some kind of nothingness. Eventually it passes. Sometimes two hours have gone by, other times it's just a few minutes. However long it takes one of the ANP(s) to gain control. So, maybe this is actually losing executive control without losing consciousness of what's happening.

Here's another example: Today. I just called in sick to work. I don't want to go. I want to read and respond to this thread instead. This is different from not being physically capable of going (as in above). I am aware that I am making a completely irresponsible decision from the perspective of my professional ANP, but one that also seems kind of life-saving from the perspective of another part.

Finally: A while back, some neighbors came for a visit. The four of us (my husband, me, and them) were in our very small kitchen. The woman was sloppy/sentimental drunk and the energy of all four of us interacting was really really weird. She showed up drunk. I was trapped in the corner because of the way we were all sitting and standing. I got very anxious...the trapped feeling, the horror about the woman's drunkenness, taking on the energy of her husband who was obviously upset about it but not saying anything and trying to be normal, taking on my husband's energy as he was trying to manage these people, all of us trying to be normal in a very not normal situation. I was aware of all the thoughts/reactions I was having and tried to get over it...but eventually couldn't and had to excuse myself to go upstairs...and I did not come back down. I never lost executive control in the sense that I didn't explode at them, or cry out or run away as if I was re-living a scene from childhood, but it was all playing out in my head and felt overwhelming. It was EP stuff from past, but my ANP was able to calmly excuse myself, extricate myself from the situation, and go upstairs.
 
Will you describe yours too?
@Hope4Now , as far as I can tell, I lose all of my executive functioning. I am wondering if the executive functioning was not onboard at the time of the damage, whether that complicates things. I feel it must. I was an infant when all of this took place so the best I can do is to curl up in a ball and play dead. That is survival at it's most basic level.

My ANP does not yell at me, instead it says 'you can quit faking now' but regardless of how much I try I cannot move. The EP takes over my whole body. I am trying to move my baby finger these days, thinking that even as an infant, they can move their pinky. It seems to be working. I have decided it isn't an all or nothing thing. One finger is better than nothing.
On Monday night, I had a total dissociative break that ended as I came out of it with like an hour of violent vomiting and then I slept.
I hope you are feeling better now.
 
Sorry for all the posts at once. This is an extraordinarily helpful thread. Thank you Shimmerz.

He externalizes the PANIC, I internalize/disappear it put up the wall and emotionally just run silent. His externalization looked like ANGER to me, so I respond out of FEAR and run away
@Eleanor, thank you for this. This comment just precipitated a paradigm shift as it relates to a troublesome part of my relationship with my husband. I am terrified of anger and isolate/run when he gets that way...he says what he wants desperately when he's like that is for me to be with him...that it just makes it worse when I "go away"...so his anger is coming from PANIC. I will have to mull this over for a while.
I am wondering if each of you suffer from somatoform issues and whether these can be used to determine when the EP is 'out front'?
I have so many somataform issues...I won't bore you with all of them. Pain that keeps me from walking or standing much is the major one, but that's there almost 100% of the time. I'm pretty sure it is a whole bunch of parts of EPs that are terrified. When I get completely overwhelmed, like what happened on Monday night, I vomit repeatedly even if there's nothing in my stomach. This is some EP part that has to do with my adoptive parents. I don't understand it yet. I get IBS symptoms (I don't have IBS), but I don't know the part associated with this. I get freezing cold and shaking which my therapist and I think is the infant part (I was given up for adoption immediately after birth and stayed for a few months in the home for "unwed mothers" where my birth mother had lived (not too dissimilar from the one in Philomena if anyone has seen that film). I have all sorts of really odd involuntary body movements that seem to be associated with different EPs (flinching, arm twisting back, gagging, shaking out hands, etc...lovely! ugh!). I get bouts with unbearable itching.
My pain became an issue when I felt really vulnerable and too exhausted to keep up my strong outward persona.
I just felt exhausted and some pull to hide out and survive quietly without anyone finding out how messed up I felt. I do wonder if the pain relates somewhat to these parts (emotional or EP and ANP) trying to synthesize into some kind of whole.
This is what happened to me, too. The pain happened kind of slowly, over a period of months, following a fall down the stairs when I sprained my ankle and something emotional inside me broke. I remember it. But I didn't make anything of it until after a year+ journey of trying to track down a medical reason for my pain in my sacrum, and just pushing through my life as best I could until it got worse and worse. In hindsight, I see now that it had been probably coming on for decades. My ANP(s)/protector parts just got really exhausted, so some of the EPs/exiles escaped.

Did anything specific precipitate yours?

I've recently wondered if my ADD isn't actually dissociation in action.
I think this is a really good question. I suspect that the only way to really know the difference is through fMRI or something along those lines, but even then I suspect that the neurologists would find similar things lighting up in the brain. Much research shows that children who are traumatized display symptoms of ADD and anxiety and other interferences with learning and behavior and affect...and that often the trauma is overlooked for the more common diagnoses and treatment (which is horrible but so true). It's also true that it is very difficult to distinguish anxiety disorders from ADD (and PTSD too). I think this is because all (trauma sequelae, ADD, and anxiety) impact executive functioning.
 
I think the core conversation is REALLY important. And is a piece of information that is likely generalizable and that the trauma treatment community and people who do body work - particularly if it can make big changes there - ought to be very cognizant of. Like.. I don't know, how to deal with choking or something. This is something that people NEED TO KNOW. That folks with CHRONIC core issues - life long postural problems that are NOT due to some genetic disposition (scoliosis or some mechanical issue) can be really badly re-injured (psychologically) by trying to shift that energy without a lot of preparation and support....

Here's another example: Today. I just called in sick to work. I don't want to go. I want to read and respond to this thread instead. This is different from not being physically capable of going (as in above). I am aware that I am making a completely irresponsible decision from the perspective of my professional ANP, but one that also seems kind of life-saving from the perspective of another part.
I could have written these words. Not today, but on any number of occasions over the years.
 
can be really badly re-injured (psychologically) by trying to shift that energy without a lot of preparation and support....
So agree with this. It is so dangerous.
fMRI or something along those lines
I have learned to trust my gut instincts on this and it all seems to go back to my trauma. Even the pancreatitis I had before Christmas. It told me 'STOP this right now! You have work still to be done!' I am learning how to listen.

The unfortunate part is that my EP doesn't care that I can't survive with no income, no house, no coping mechanisms to live in this world when it has taken over. And my ANP is forced to just watch and wait for D-day. Again.
 
This is my last long post. Really. I just can't help myself.
Those couple of recent, quick periods where I could sort of feel the old fear and feel my muscles tensing because of it, I was also somewhat analyzing it with my adult skills I think; it was a strange sensation. I'm pretty sure I can't do this on purpose, it happened and then stopped. "On purpose" is a weird phrase with this stuff; maybe I mean, my ANP isn't in control of it? hmmm
What you're describing sounds a bit like aspects of somatic therapy where you "get to know" parts of yourself that show up physically as well as emotionally. On purpose isn't a weird statement at all. I'm still working (through mindful movement) to learn how to do some of this stuff on purpose. I am not good at it.
No fibromyalgia but pain sensations might sometimes be similar.
Think of how a very small person would protect themselves if they could not run or fight. Core caves in, back tenses.
I was not diagnosed with fibromyalgia either, but I have wild trigger points that don't seem to follow any logical course of nerves and nerve endings.
The position you describe is usually the one I end up in regularly...awake or asleep...closest thing to safe. My therapist is now having me take up positions in which I make myself big. He says I need to learn that it is safe to take up space in the world. It is really hard to do this, but I am a little at a time and it is helping. So when I'm curled up and aware of it, I see if I can gently uncurl and stretch out...even if it is just my fingers or toes. I'm getting to where I can stretch out my whole body though.
Once she had unlocked the shoulder and I was able to move it, I started having these crazy dreams. In waking hours, if I moved my shoulder too far I would faint. One night, in the form of a flashback it came to me why my shoulder was affected and why I was so sensitive to people invading my left peripheral view. They were tied together. When I was very young, my abusers would pick me up (using their right arm) and freak on me and scare the crap out of me. Since they used their right arm to lift me, I would see them peripherally from my left side as I was twisting frantically to the right to try to get away from them. There was a reason. Once I knew the reason I could challenge it. I did exercises to loosen it up more and more acupuncture but this time with awareness. Sort of an exposure therapy.
Wow. That's an amazing insight. Have you done any processing in therapy with this incompleted movement? Have you connected with any of the emotions that underlie it? I'm asking because I know I haven't and that it's what needs to happen to fully process it/integrate it.
Makes me wonder about some fuzzy stuff that's come up in my flashbacks. I have had problems on my right side from the time I was a little kid. Even most of the injuries I've had have been on my right side. And one of the predictable involuntary movements I get is a powerful twisting to the right...twisted so hard one time that I pulled muscles in my left side that hurt for months.
We had one notable session where I cried so hard (sitting on my deck) that (sorry for the graphic) there was still a pile of snot on the boards several hours later. It worked tho, I can't remember what it was about exactly. Others not caring about me maybe? That is usually the big ticket item. On that occasion some bit of me or other had something to say and she has me/it say it over and over until the energy "shifted" and I could say it calmly. I can now sometimes do this for myself on my own. She calls this "clearing" the energy.
Wow! This is cool. I mean awful, but also cool that you can get release like this and that you can even do it on your own sometimes. Wow. How did you get to the point of the emotion happening? Did it just emerge?
I think my therapist is trying to get me to do this kind of releasing a little bit at a time, but the ANP(s) are having none of it. No emotion, just physical movement stuff and, more recently, some sounds coming out of me unbidden. Ugh. But progress I suppose from being completely frozen.
I can't find the 'right position', ever - whether walking, sitting or anything, really.
I get this totally. It has taken me 18 months of body work, somatic therapy, and lessons in the Alexander technique to gain a little glimmer of what the "right" position is for me. Every once in a while, I can sort of coordinate it all physically and feel the rightness, but then it snaps right back. Darned those ANPs and EPs.
Interesting.....I had NO idea about my trauma when I had the work done.
Me neither. It was the body worker who suggested I ought to go to a trauma therapist. I kind of rolled my eyes, but went because I was so desperate to resolve the pain. I really had no clue until last fall that I was "traumatized" even though I was aware of some of the things that happened to me.
My ANP does not yell at me, instead it says 'you can quit faking now' but regardless of how much I try I cannot move. The EP takes over my whole body. I am trying to move my baby finger these days, thinking that even as an infant, they can move their pinky. It seems to be working. I have decided it isn't an all or nothing thing. One finger is better than nothing.
It's great that you are moving your little finger. Can you open your eyes? It is really, really hard for me to do this, but if I can for a moment and be aware of my breathing, sometimes I can get unfrozen.
Still there are parts of me that completely deny the reality of any of what I call "hijacking" by parts and tell me I'm making it all up. The part that says "you can quit faking now" is a protector part. Doesn't want you to feel the emotional pain that underlies the immobility/space out/dissociation whatever you want to call it. Does that resonate?
 
Have you done any processing in therapy with this incompleted movement? Have you connected with any of the emotions that underlie it?
No, I did it on my own. I have full range of my shoulder now, no fainting, no dizziness, just sometimes a rush of heat burns through me.

I am confused about the emotion part. I am not sure what range of emotions a 4 day old child has (first profound trauma while out of utero). I feel like I may need guidance with this one although recently I seem to have emotions that seem totally foreign to me come up and I can actually name them, such as anger.

Can you open your eyes?
Most times my eyes are open but I cannot close them. They can be open for hours. I feel like this is the 'infant' but I am not sure why I feel that way. I use the ANP to trigger my using my finger when I am overcome by EP. When ANP says 'stop faking' then I speak to the ANP and tell that piece of me that they are the 'body worker' so move that finger and I will get my body back. There is actual conversation going on between the two parts now. I have no idea how that is happening given that the EP is so infantile.

Perhaps the two parts have integrated enough that they are trying to help each other to be more cohesive. Again, this is going to sound strange. My EP had an agenda, imho. To die. Once I fought through the death wish thing my EP seems to have given back control - and even when it takes it back due to triggering, which even that is gone now, I swear my EP asks for help from my ANP and hands over slight control (finger movement). Once I can move my finger, my whole body goes back online (ANP control). I almost feel like it has been a process of my EP testing out the ANP - making sure that it knows it wants to die, the ANP acknowledging and understanding the EPs need and saying to the EP; you know what, why don't I take over now.

Unbelievably freaking fascinating. Now, unfortunately, this has come at a cost to the ANP part. It's part's veneer (for lack of a better word) is no longer super incredibly efficient, clever, sophisticated, charming, functional, etc. She has been taught by the EP that she must be willing to make mistakes, to be less than perfect, to forgive herself. That has come with a high cost and I now feel, that given the social position I am in, the 'whole system' may perish (die). Integration. Not for the faint of heart.
 
How did you get to the point of the emotion happening? Did it just emerge?

Don't know quite how to answer this question - and would add that I almost certainly started from an easier place as my issues are neglect ones. But... it was already "up" for regular life reasons. I have a weekly appointment and sometimes things come up or I have a crisis (they helpfully arrange themselves one Mondays or Tuesday mornings..) and then we go with whatever is "up." And I recall I was upset at my H that day... and my T asked where in my body the emotion was, and then asked me to hang out with that for a little and see if it had anything to say... and it did. And said it quite a lot!

In a larger context, I started working with my T after a workshop she did where she did this kind of work with individuals so the others in the workshop got to observe and "hold space" for the person working. It was AMAZING. There was one woman who you would not easily have recognized as the same person by the third day of the workshop - she had released a bunch of stuff - she looked physically different. It made quite an impression on me...
And it took me A LONG time to be able to do something like that.

range of emotions a 4 day old child has
Going with Panksepp - PANIC, FEAR, ANGER, SEEKING, I'd imagine PLAY, CARE and MATING come along later. The other four are implicated directly in maintaining homeostasis. Remember PANIC has a positive valence - feeling safe and cared for - euphoric in the literal sense. SEEKING also has a positive valence (when we are "on the trail!" or finding.) FEAR and ANGER are off on. ANGER can have a kind of transcendent quality to it... but I think that comes later.
 
I was supposed to feel stronger and healthier, but f*ck no, my body wasn't ready to let it be that easy I guess...
My t says that we have to be careful about forcing protector parts to give up their protecting jobs before they're ready (even really extreme ones like anorexia). I don't know how that works when protector parts are threatening your life. I wonder if the pain stepped in to take over for the anorexia.
 
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