Other Stockholm syndrome and ptsd

[shimmerz]

It is worth at least an honorable mention of the syndrome

Yes, I agree. Coffee is still coffee, whether it be French Vanilla or Columbian

 

[shimmerz]

Interesting. This Q&A (it seems from one of the original researchers of SS) talks about the regression process and speaks to the shame pieces involved.

It does make sense to consider the ironic attachment, the "trauma bond," to be a return to infancy and the creation of an emotion that was once necessary for keeping mother and infant in each other's arms. It is not a sign of weakness or of mental illness. It is natural, predictable and useful. It serves the goal of survival.

And, yes, it comes from being a victim of violence. It does not mean that the victim likes being victimized. It has nothing to do with masochism. But some people will, unfortunately, learn to equate being abused with being protected. That makes life very difficult for survivors of childhood abuse. "Who can I trust when those who gave me life were violent to me - but also were the ones who DIDN'T kill me?"

Here is the link if anyone is interested.
http://www.giftfromwithin.org/html/FAQ-Stockholm-Syndrome-and-Child-Abuse-Survivors.html

The line about equating abuse with being protected absolutely makes sense to my skewed way of thinking. I can see a pattern there.

 

[Beachlife09]

I think I have an understanding of my kidnapper that no-one else can possibly have - and if very emotional and very provoked, I will still defend aspects of his behavior, which makes my therapist look at me like I'm from Mars.

Yes, especially when you add sexual things in the mix you've got an odd bond. And yeah, Haha i know that look (having received it from my own family at times), it makes you question your own feelings sometimes. :confused:

you have two choices. To fight and more than likely get yourself killed or in more danger a lot earlier. The other is to work the aggressors weaknesses and play than harder than they are playing you

Having been a captive as well, i would like to add a third one that is (shamefully) the one that i eventually had no choice but to do- option three: Do as they say so you survive. There comes a point when you can't fight in anyway anymore.

 

[Ronin]

Not shamefully, no. Living through? Being goddamn brilliant. A victory on its own.
(I know, I know. It gets entangled when one starts considering what one had to do to survive. But that's a whole complicated bag of issues and point still stands the very life matters and everything you did to keep alive was darned bright, because you're alive.)

 

[Valentino]

I think that Stockholm syndrome and Lima syndrome (converse where abductors bond w/ hostages) are a form of traumatic bonding. And traumatic bonding might be part of emotional engulfment or enmeshment.

Or it can be described as a boundary issue. When one's personal boundaries get confused and merge with another's it's more classically codependent and care-addictions. This is likely personality types that prefer PANIC/GRIEF 'flight to safety' strategy. Other types who might identify more with RAGE or fight/resist strategies, would fit into counter-dependent and control/perfectionist addictions. Counter dependents have the opposite issue of excess personal boundaries, to the point of pushing their own needs onto others or the external world.

Likely all of this originates from adverse childhood experiences, a child's adaptation to insecure and disorganized attachment model from a care-giver.

I like Dr. Robert Firestone's theory called The Fantasy Bond, which he simply describes as an illusion of fusion or connection, it's a primary defense mechanism to cope against separation anxiety (PANIC/GRIEF circuits overloaded).

Most people have fears of intimacy and are self-protective and at the same time are terrified of being alone. Their solution to their emotional dilemma is to form a fantasy bond. This illusion of connection and closeness allows them to maintain an imagination of love and loving while preserving emotional distance. Destructive fantasy bonds, which exist in a large majority of relationships, greatly reduce the possibility couples achieving intimacy.

The nature of a fantasy bond is the central concept of my theory as explained in my book The Fantasy Bond. It explains people’s compulsion to relive the past with new relationships i.e., to form illusory connections that invariably lead to a reenactment of defensive styles of interacting developed in childhood. This process of reverting to outmoded defense patterns interferes with the establishment of secure and satisfying adult relationships characterized by feelings of humanity, compassion, and equality. Once a fantasy bond is formed, individuals prefer to maintain a defensive posture rather than trusting and investing genuine feelings in others. Once having been hurt, they are reluctant to take a chance again and this defensive pattern has an insidious effect on couple and family relations.

-- Robert Firestone - full article: http://www.psychalive.org/the-fantasy-bond-substitute-for-a-loving-relationship/

I suspect that many children create an inner voice and structure their ANP (apparently normal part of the personality) of their future adult personality, around a fantasy bond relationship modeled after a primary care-giver. And I often see people seek out future adult love relationships with people who remind them of their flawed parents, a sort of symbolic do-over attempt, to finally get unconditional love that was missing in childhood, but also an do-over chance to express hurt from unmet needs and be heard. Unfortunately the new adult lover, while is similar to the parent's energy, and works well as a symbolic 'fill-in', they don't have knowledge or history of past neglect or abuse, and are highly unlikely to acknowledge or recognize all the unmet needs, hurt and attention that was missing from childhood.

I have been leaning towards the term emotional flooding to try to find an objective simplified pointer to describe the common underlying aspects of codependence, fantasy bond, enmeshment, merged/crossed boundaries, emotional hunger, care-addictions, ambivalent/anxious attachment, etc. It seems to be a very common relationship dynamic, and there are many models and theories that describe aspects of it. But it's easy to get lost in the abstract descriptions and theories.

This dynamic might be inherently hard to intellectually understand or talk about, as it primarily plays out symbolically within the body, relationships and habits.

 

[shimmerz]

I suppose I'm selfishly attracted to this SS theory because it helps me better understand why it took me 51 years to begin to accept the reality of what happened to me.

I believe this can be one of the biggest barriers to therapy. Minimizing things, twisting events and intentions, needing to build a truth around the thoughts that if we could just do XYZ better, differently, etc, we will survive. We get twisted because they are twisted. And then we take on their twistedness while they carry on normally.

And why I have chosen to continue to have a relationship with my mother as her caregiver (and my father while he was alive).

And why I was caregiver to my birth mother. I think this can be a clash with our morals and values. Which turns into a potential conflict of 'why am I not being authentic to how I feel. Wait a minute....how do I really feel?' I think our therapists buy their summer homes and take the family on exotic vacations on the backs of SS. It takes a lot of time to deconstruct and reconstruct our truth. Not to mention extricating ourselves from the dynamic.

 

[Hope4Now]

We get twisted because they are twisted. And then we take on their twistedness while they carry on normally.

Yes. I'm working on untwisting the twistedness I took on. It is very, very hard. I completely get it intellectually. If I could think my way out of it, I'd be just fine thank you. It's feeling it/knowing it/accepting it/grieving it etc. that is presenting seemingly impenetrable barriers on the path to healing. But every now and again I manage to see through one or stumble over one, and that keeps me going.

And why I was caregiver to my birth mother.

Ah, yes. You too, huh? I'm sorry if you told me this and I forgot. I forget a lot these days it seems.

.how do I really feel?'

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao: Now THAT's the question of a lifetime. I have no idea how I really feel. There are more than one "I" it feels like most of the time, and they're always in conflict with one another. What's authentic and good and right to one, is upsetting and betraying to another, is worthy of shutdown to another, is a lie to another, is a compromise to another.

It takes a lot of time to deconstruct and reconstruct our truth. Not to mention extricating ourselves from the dynamic.

Yes. I like what you call it/how you call it "our truth." That phrase really resonates with me. "OUR truth" "MY truth." Not necessarily "THE truth." I'll chew on this for a while. I think you've just shifted another paradigm for me. Thank you. Not sure my T is taking vacations on me yet (but the pricey Mr. Famous Psychiatrist certainly is). "It took a long time for your parts to start being heard and they have a lot to say...It will take time..." I think I've heard a version of this a thousand times over. I guess I need to keep hearing it. Or get that impatient, impulsive part to settle down a bit! :wtf:.

 

[Mercy]

Of the four Fs:

• Fight
• Flight
• Freeze
• Fawn

Stockholm Syndrome is probably a big manifestation of the fawn / suck up / brown nose response. The PTSD part of it is when it becomes embedded and continues inappropriatly with repect to what is actually going on - That really does widen the scope for who has PTSD though; wow!
____________________________________.

This makes so much sense to me. Fawn for me was the constant monitoring of my guest/captor of the week for exactly what he wants done and exactly how. It is hypervigilance on a life and death scale since so many of my little 'friends' failed to please and eventually died.

In current life, it means I backdown very easily and become a pacifier. An example, I was standing in my newly done over bathroom with an architect whom I knew and the contractor who was quite tall. He had neglected to finish an item on the punch list. My friend pointed out that it had not been done. I caved immediately and said it was alright. Of course, it wasn't and still isn't 'till this day. I just cannot defend my self with men.

Fawn is a good word for this part of my PTSD disfunction.

 

[riverbrook]

This could relate to both domestic violence and sexual assault. I was looking it up for reasons that I...

I was just going to rap about Stockholm Syndrome and start a new thread. Good. Yes I was kidnapped at knife point for two days. Right now I am suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. I guess about six months after I was kidnapped. I had a bad idea. Why not relate to my kidnapper. It was bad idea.

Yeah. They are right. Your life is in that persons hands. I was probably scared I was gonna. You know. Go.

I struggle with it everyday.

Somedays I swear I won't like my kidnapper. Some days I give in and think stupid things. Like I related to it. Isn't that awful.

So messed up.

I'm in a bad place with it. If anyone responds no rude comments. I'm very hypervigelant.

Thanks.

 

[shimmerz]

(((((((((@riverbrook))))))))

I am so sorry that you are struggling so.

 

[EveHarrington]

I'm kind of surprised OP that you've been on the Stockholm Syndrome thing for years without fully understanding what it entails. After reading this thread I guess those who disagree with you should stop trying to convince you of what Stockholm Syndrome actually is because the discussion falls on deaf ears. I now realize that you only want to discuss this with people who agree with you, even though you don't understand the core mechanisms of the syndrome.

 

[shimmerz]

I'm kind of surprised OP that you've been on the Stockholm Syndrome thing for years without fully understanding what it entails.

????
Eve, this is an old thread that has been revived. I get that we disagree on this, but do we need to start this all over again? Can we just let it be please?