The Double Bind Condition

[shimmerz]

My birth father is a sociopath. My birth mother was a schizophrenic. I was with them, on and off until I was two. My existence was far from honoured. They wanted me dead.

If I expressed a need I would be tortured.
If I didn't express a need I would be left alone but went without a primary need (to the state I would starve myself for instance)
I could not seek help (obviously)

I understand the theory of a double bind as it related to my young life:
1. do this, you are punished (cry because I am hungry)
2. do that (the other option), you are punished or suffer somehow (don't cry, so don't get fed) (particularly insidious when this choice is made by victim, which of course, causes shame because it was my choice)
3. no escape (this can be because neither parent is a source of safety, learned helplessness that causes us to not even bother trying to get help etc) (this, of course leads to shame too because we 'didn't try hard enough to get help)

Right now I am kinda caught in this type of situation. I am pretty sick and should go to hospital. I have been abused over and over in hospital so I choose not to go.
so here is how it plays out (and I am doing it to myself)
1. deal with physical consequences of illness knowing I could be causing more damage by not having it attended to
2. go to hospital and face abuse by staff (historically this has been consistent, it isn't catastrophising)
3. this isn't going to go away unless I make a choice of either 1. or 2.

Double bind.

Not looking for advice on the above scenario. It just feels hopeless. I am interested as to how difficult it has been since I learned of this double bind theory, to actually see how it has played out in my life, you know, finding examples of it. It is difficult for me to pull into my cognition somehow. I wonder sometimes if I am the cause of my own chaos at times because I am placing myself into double bind situations (like this physical issue I am having right now). Is this my fault because I could go to hospital but it seems like going is walking in front of a high speed train? Not going seems like a better choice but that may just be a passive death wish? *heavy sigh* I can't figure this out.

It seems like a fair share of my life has been 'choosing between the lesser of two evils'. I feel like if I can cognitively bring this pattern to the forefront it may help me out of the chaos tunnel. Does anyone have thoughts on whether this affects their lives and how?

https://childhoodtraumarecoverydotc...ents-put-kids-in-a-psychological-double-bind/

 

[shimmerz]

1. pay attention to sickness or I suffer physical consequences
2. go to hospital and face abuse by staff (historically this has been consistent, it isn't catastrophising)
3. this isn't going to go away unless I make a choice of either 1. or 2.

Funny, I can't even seem to write this out properly. I am sorry if it doesn't make sense to anyone. Step 1 seems to be beyond my grasp somehow. Forgive me if this is scattered.

Sorry for the confusion. The typed number 1 in the OP is different from the quoted #1 in this posting because I keep adjusting #1 *heavy sigh*

 

[desiderata310]

It does.
I know you aren't looking for suggestions. I promise I'm not being judgmental. You had a unique (to you) experience with your sons the other day. Can you get one or both of them to advocate for you at the hospital? It sounds like in the past that you've been treated poorly because you were fighting solo. Trying to advocate for yourself from the bed is difficult. I should know.

Having a team on your side could help. Don't you think? Before you really were solo. Two mentally ill/abusive parents.
Having concerned sons could maybe make the difference? It's worth a shot.

 

[shimmerz]

Before you really were solo. Two mentally ill/abusive parents.

Hadn't thought of my sons or any advocates thanks Desi. I wonder if this is trauma hangover that is closing me off to even thinking I could have help in this situation. Good food for thought.

 

[Hope4Now]

It seems like a fair share of my life has been 'choosing between the lesser of two evils'.

I hear you on this one. Loud and clear. And on this:

I wonder sometimes if I am the cause of my own chaos at times because I am placing myself into double bind situations (like this physical issue I am having right now). Is this my fault because I could go to hospital but it seems like going is walking in front of a high speed train? Not going seems like a better choice but that may just be a passive death wish? *heavy sigh* I can't figure this out.

I think this double-bind situation we do to ourselves is often the aftermath of it having been done to us. Because we have parts of ourselves that fragmented off in order to protect the whole system from annihilation. Now these parts want different things for us. Sometimes polarized opposite things. The "work" is to listen to the parts from a place of SELF as much as possible and find an approach that acknowledges (if not completely meets) all the parts' needs.

Take this comment or leave it if it doesn't resonate: I wonder whether the reason you are struggling to articulate #1 is that a part of you is fully aware that you should go to the hospital/doctor to deal with this physical issue, but that if the physical issue is dealt with effectively (e.g., you cry and are fed), it removes the double-bind and opens up space inside, into which may come some memories/feelings/experiences you're not quite ready to take on? That another part of you is involved in #1. A part of you that is afraid that if you deal with the physical problem, the part of you that drove you so hard your whole life will take over again and shut down all the other parts that have finally had the opportunity to have you become aware of them/listen to them?

 

[shimmerz]

In reading your post Hope, this

1. do this, you are punished (cry because I am hungry)

is a need. Needs and I don't do very well together for the reasons expressed above. Cry and punishment - don't cry - potential death. That seems nicer somehow though. Less scary. It is as if, if I do it to myself (not cry or express a need), then that is a less jagged pill to swallow than if someone does it to me. I expect that kind of behaviour from myself (to myself) (does that even make sense???) but it kills me and gets me all riled up if I see it in others directed towards me.

So if I think about what will happen as I go through this process of making this decision, I can reflect back on where my thinking this stuff out actually went wrong. In this situation, I see myself as just pushing my way through until the 14th (dr. appt). I am tough, I can take it, kind of thinking. I think that thinking has come honestly to me but is messed up.

However, I am struggling with having to ask for support in the hospital from the people I know, which sends me into another form of the same double bind. I seriously feel that this double bind has driven my life choices, which are driving my life events. Trying to get to this using this present experience and making parallels to my upbringing.

 

[Spiderallis]

It's usually attributed to Jerry Garcia, but someone once said "Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil" I'm sorry you weren't given other options as a kid and I understand how that could complicate things now.

Is a hospital the only way you could get care for your medical issues? Would your doctor maybe let you move your appointment to sooner if you called and let them know you're not doing well?

 

[Hope4Now]

It is as if, if I do it to myself (not cry or express a need), then that is a less jagged pill to swallow than if someone does it to me. I expect that kind of behaviour from myself (to myself) (does that even make sense???) but it kills me and gets me all riled up if I see it in others directed towards me.

Yep. I understand that completely. Having needs is DANGEROUS! Acknowledging that we do and that we need help is even more DANGEROUS because then we are at the mercy of others. It's far safer feeling to be in control of ourselves...even if that control actually puts us in REAL danger. Agh. Catch-22.

In this situation, I see myself as just pushing my way through until the 14th (dr. appt). I am tough, I can take it, kind of thinking. I think that thinking has come honestly to me but is messed up.

I understand this too, as you'll see when you read my recent message to you. Please don't push through. Please call the doctor as Spideralis recommends. Perhaps you could start there. Perhaps they could see you today or tomorrow?

However, I am struggling with having to ask for support in the hospital from the people I know, which sends me into another form of the same double bind.

Yes, I know this is so hard. I have an absolutely terrible time asking for help. I have a part of me that is hell-bent on doing it all myself...that spurns any help even when really needed...that assumes needing help is dangerous and weak...and assumes that nobody is really interested in helping anyway. I wouldn't want to impose on anyone. :yuck::yuck::yuck: But of course, I would want someone in my situation to reach out to me and ask for help. I like to help people. Why don't I think they like to help me? Pretty messed up parts in my system. A double-standard to go along with the double-bind. I am learning, however, to move beyond this. Am finally accepting what I have been hearing from my therapist for more than a year. Acknowledging my need(s) and asking for help are absolutely essential for healing. :wtf:.

 

[shimmerz]

Acknowledging my need(s) and asking for help are absolutely essential for healing.

*Shudder*

Would your doctor maybe let you move your appointment to sooner if you called and let them know you're not doing well?

Yes, I tried this. They said go to hospital. Honestly? Given my experiences? A fate worse than death.

This really is challenging for me. Not the hospital thing per se but more the concept of what is going on here and how this double bind mind F*** has and is continuing to drive my life decisions. This is a huge concept to swallow, or it feels like it anyway.

 

[shimmerz]

Take this comment or leave it if it doesn't resonate: I wonder whether the reason you are struggling to articulate #1 is that a part of you is fully aware that you should go to the hospital/doctor to deal with this physical issue, but that if the physical issue is dealt with effectively (e.g., you cry and are fed), it removes the double-bind and opens up space inside, into which may come some memories/feelings/experiences you're not quite ready to take on? That another part of you is involved in #1. A part of you that is afraid that if you deal with the physical problem, the part of you that drove you so hard your whole life will take over again and shut down all the other parts that have finally had the opportunity to have you become aware of them/listen to them?

Yes. I need to think on this. Thank you Hope. Changing this behaviour would change everything in my life. It feels like a core shift in the making. That is scary.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

@shimmerz "If I had a hammer"

 

[scout86]

It seems like a fair share of my life has been 'choosing between the lesser of two evils'.

I'm not going to say that hasn't been true.

Have you heard my T's "Blue and not blue" story? He says there's this tribe of aboriginal people who only have 2 words for color. Things are either "blue" or they are "not blue". He told the story. I expressed skepticism. We spent a good chunk of the hour talking about what an interesting idea it was. A couple days later, when I felt like I had 2 choices (hurt someone or do nothing) a light came on. "OH! He was trying to point out that I DO THAT!" :x3::banghead:

In the past, your choices have been more limited. First, because you were an infant and a toddler. Second because you were in a relationship with a pretty scary guy. Maybe more, other, similar situations. NOW you are you own agent. You do not have to go to the hospital and accept being mistreated. Sounds like you've had horribly bad luck. I KNOW people who work in hospitals and I promise THEY would have been nice to you. I'm sure somewhere in Canada there are nice doctors and nurses too. Finding them might be a challenge. Having someone to advocate for you is a great idea. This stuff, being so different from what you've done in the past and how you've done it, is hard enough. Besides being sick. Your sons actually sounded like they were worried and might be willing to help. (They might not be good at it either, not having had much practice and all.) Not being good at is is not the same thing as not wanting to try or caring.

Just a suggestion, and I've only tried this once. I have a HUGE problem with doctors and medical stuff myself. As a kid, I was supposed to tough it out. I failed each and every time and ended up panicking and fighting and creating a scene. :notworthy: Up until last summer, when my T suggested I see HIS eye doctor and it accidentally (?) worked out that our appointments were back to back, it had not occurred to me that I start this whole process by telling them "Hey, I have PTSD and as I result have a few issues with this kind of stuff. I'm going to do the best I can, here's what you can do that I know will help, here's what I know WON'T help." (My T laughed when I said "Do you suppose I should tell them ahead of time?") The whole thing went amazingly well.

Oddly, telling people the truth seems like a useful approach sometimes. You always have the option of yelling "F U!" and walking out. You do NOT have to stay if they are mean to you. Further, you can ask to speak with a supervisor. You can DEMAND to speak to a supervisor. You have more power now than you did "then". It just takes awhile to get used to the idea.