Privilege And Self-worth And Changes

[rightkindofme]

This is going to sound really weird and some people are probably going to think, "Poor little rich girl, shut up." I can live with that.

With that introduction, I am currently really financially privileged. This is weird for me. I grew up very poor. I have a lot of poor-people habits. I appear poor to the people around me. Folks are constantly offering me charity (like clothing that doesn't have holes in it) or trying to "help" me have access to things. This is kind of weird to deal with. "No, actually I don't want your cast-off tv. I don't have one because I do not choose to have one not because I can't afford one."

These conversations get really weird.

I live most of the time like a very poor person. I am 33 and I'm still wearing clothes I had in middle school. I've worn them through two pregnancies. I don't buy new/nice vehicles. I spend a lot of time at home gardening so I can learn about growing food. I don't wear jewelry (other than my wedding ring) or makeup. So most people in the community (I'm really social as I walk around our neighborhood) think of me as kind of a charity case. It's really weird. They think that because I walk to the farmers market for my groceries that I need help.

I try to tactfully tell them that I don't need food donations. (Actually we donate hundreds of dollars a month to various charities. But thanks for thinking of me!)

It's uncomfortable. But I don't feel comfortable in clothes and external markers that would cause people to treat me like I'm of a higher social rank.

Except my wedding ring. Which I had custom made in New York City at my husband's insistence. If I walk into Tiffany's jewelry store the folks who work there look at my ring and hiss in their breath and say, "That's real".

So I have these very weird very intense opposite experiences. And both of them cause me to feel wildly uncomfortable.

I have started businesses and I've done angel investing through a venture capitol firm. Many people who are actually mega-rich know who I am. They stop and listen when I talk. It is... very disconcerting to me.

When I deal with rich, influential, "powerful" (oh gag me with a spoon) people I tend to go home and feel like I should cut myself to ribbons because I am not good enough to be going there. Any second they are going to find out that I'm bad and stupid and a whore and they will start thinking that they should beat me too and....

So my life involves a lot of plummeting up and down the emotional spectrum. On one hand, I have external validation in the form of a rapidly growing investment portfolio (I turned ~$150k of assets into $1.3million in 8 years) that I do actually know what I'm talking about with money. I do make good guesses and choices and decisions. Clearly. But I still have all these horrible tapes playing in my head at full volume. I shouldn't be talking to these men about money I should be sucking their ####. I don't have the right to speak. I should shut up.

I put this in discussion because I couldn't figure out where this would fit. It's about self-concept and how you change how you view yourself.

I'm saying all this because I want to explain where I'm coming from and why this is really weird for me.

What I want to ask and then discuss is: how do you figure out who you are and what you are worth? I don't think my bank balance is very important in the overall discussion of my value as a human being. I think it is a demonstration that I am skilled at handling money.... which isn't the same thing as having value as a human being. Let's go look at Wall Street.

So what things do matter? How do you reconcile massive changes in social experience in life? I grew up in extreme poverty. I was homeless and I stole food to keep from starving to death. I have a fierce need to be safe and I'm very lucky that I have been able to figure out how to invest money such that I'm likely to be safe for the rest of my life. I'm even luckier I married someone who had a nest egg who was happy to say, "I trust you to handle the money."

But I don't feel safe. It feels like it is just stupid money. It doesn't matter. I don't have an extended family so if something bad happens all I have is... money. Who gives a @#%@?

So the money is part of it, and it makes it very complicated. But it's not really about money. How do you decide who you are? How safe you are? What you need for safety?

How do I feel less scared all the darn time?

 

[Deleted member 20280]

For Myself I was Diagnosed two years ago after a huge Nervous Breakdown that culminated in my eventual Downfall from Grace, I was on approx $70.000 Per annum in my Emergency Service (Work for the Government Career). I had a sharp fall to the bottom and within three months was penniless, living in the gutter and scrounging cigarette butts off the pavements because I could not afford to buy any Tobacco, I could only afford papers, I hit speed, Cocaine when I could get it, I drank myself into a coma in July 2 years ago. I am having issues with synthetic Amphetamines even now but an almost off them totally from going cold a few times these last 12 months. I do have a cannabis habit still but only because I personally find cannabis very soothing and calming, When I take the Abilify my mind goes into overdrive and I cannot sleep, So I stopped my script meds 2 months ago and turned to cannabis use as it calms me down, Guess what..... I sleep better now.

Bloody shame the UK is so far behind the US when it comes to prescribing Medicinal Cannabis, I will probably have to wait another 2 years. On Psych agrees with me 100 % that the Cannabis use is good for me but because his boss is an old stuffed shirt brigade wannabe, He has dug his heels in and will not even consider it, He retires next year so I will put in for medicinal usage again, ** Cannabis is prescribed for MS in the UK in severe pain issues.

So I suffer horrific Body memory spasms when I come out of an episode like I am today. YES I have aspliff rolled because I know it will relax me enough to help me ride the spasms out and I will (he hopes) sleep tonight for the first time since last friday.

I slept last friday for the first time after a nine day spell of chronic insomnia.

My point in all this after waffling above about me this and simply this.

I went from family man with not a care in the world financially, I earnt $70.000 my wife just under $60.000 Per annum, A rather nice joint Salary I hear, Yes, We were both white collar, middle class and looked upto and respected for what we had worked for, My breakdown changed all that for me, I lost my career, My wife kicked me out and banned me from seeing the kids for the last two years. ***** I have done all the resentment I am going to there, I am not going to lose sight of happy memories I have with my kids by dwelling on negativity.

I now live in a very Humble one bedroom bedist apartments, smaller than a US bathroom I hasten to guess. (An Apartment in the UK is and trust me in the USA, no bigger than a closet in America.

I am on basic Benefits with one enhancement ergo my disability payment.

So, Man of Measure to Homeless Ex Veteran Hobo in one week. Jobless and penniless with three months. I do not drive a nice swanky car any more and My clothes all come from Charity shops and do you know what, I feeel that I am a much better man for it now, I have more time for others hence my devoting as much time as I can to helping others here on the forum in an unnofficial Capacity.

Thankyou for this thread @rightkindofme is has brought home to me why I actually feel better now than I ever did when I had money, It did not make a better man of me it made me selfish and wanting more than I could afford, I live week by week now and Yes... I am Happy. :D

 

[Dana1010]

When I deal with rich, influential, "powerful" (oh gag me with a spoon) people I tend to go home and feel like I should cut myself to ribbons because I am not good enough to be going there. Any second they are going to find out that I'm bad and stupid and a whore and they will start thinking that they should beat me too and....... But I still have all these horrible tapes playing in my head at full volume. I shouldn't be talking to these men about money I should be sucking their ####. I don't have the right to speak. I should shut up.

Ha ha ha. I just want to say that I am coming here from my email account where I just sent off a proposal for some work I'm trying to get, and the whole time I was practically expecting abusers to crash out of the computer screen and tell me to get lost because I'm contaminating everything. So this is very good timing. I've been wondering myself when the tapes are going to stop playing. I'm sorry to hear you are still having this problem despite being so successful. I got a small break few weeks ago, and while it was hell completing the work with all the voices, I have to admit it felt pretty good to have something concrete to throw back in you-know-who's face. "Hey, that's my name attached to this work, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Sail it up your ass." I know we should ideally heal from the inside out, but if I can get some from the outside now and then, I'm not going to snub my nose at it.

I don't think my bank balance is very important in the overall discussion of my value as a human being.

Well, that would put you in a very select minority, heh. I heard a radio interview with a guy who wrote a book called Blue Collar Roots/ White Collar Dreams . He talked about something called impostor syndrome which you sound like you might suffer from. I think people who've gone from poverty to wealth are a special class of people with a breadth of experience to draw from that others will never have. Anyway, you survived a terrible life, abuse, etc., and you came up smelling like roses at least in material terms. I don't know what else you or anyone else could ask of you.

 

[Seasounds]

What I want to ask and then discuss is: how do you figure out who you are and what you are worth? I don't think my bank balance is very important in the overall discussion of my value as a human being. I think it is a demonstration that I am skilled at handling money.... which isn't the same thing as having value as a human being.

What a great discussion to learn from, I look forward to everyone's responses.

You point out some good things. Emotional valuing oneself is not directly proportional, or even related to one's balance in their bank account. I can understand how the dispartiy would be a paradox, with the cultureal media presentations, of who valuable people are, and what makes them valuable.

I don't know there is really an answer for 'what is a human life worth', except 'invaluable'; don't try to put a number on something that can't be measured with cash. The challenge for me, in developing a sense of worth, is to bring appreciation to the good things that I do, including myself in society/discussions, etc, instead of marginalizing myself, due to a background that taught me that I had no rights and no values. The other side of the coin (no pun intented) is to ask that the people closest to me demonstrate value to me, through their behaviors. I ask myself, "Do they make fun of me?", "Do they try to dominate me?", "Do they interupt me constantly, or discount my opinions?", "Are they interested in what I have to say?" "Do they treat me with the culture signs of respect, or do they treat me 'less-than'?

This has been a challenge because it can mean of letting go of relationships/friendships that I value, and even more so, because I have no family.And for myself, integrating self-respect, bit by bit, I am now approaching to know that I am good enough to approach money-one symbol of being an adult-for me.

I would love if you shared how you became good with money, if you came from a painful past. Any pointers would be great. That may be another thread, or feel free to share how you believed in yourself, enough to connect to such a power symbol in our culture.
Thanks.

 

[scout86]

So what things do matter?

You get to decide that for you. Your value system sounds fine to me. I can imagine some of those encounters are awkward. You could probably embarrass people if you wanted to. I think it's cool that you don't. You really DON'T have to justify yourself, your appearance, or your lifestyle to anyone. (Hard as that idea can be to get used to.)

how do you figure out who you are and what you are worth?

I wish I knew the answers to those questions because my T keeps bringing it up! What do YOU think?

But I don't feel safe.

So what would you need to feel "safe"? My T has asked me this one too. I told him I thought "safe" was a fairy tale for children and it might be kind of a mean trick at that. But that "safe" to me was the feeling, true or false, that I had a pretty good idea what was coming and that I could handle it, what ever it was.

I don't have an extended family

There's the family you are born in to and the family you pick up along the way. Sometimes our true family is made up of people we meet along the road.

How do I feel less scared all the darn time?

Do you know what you're scared OF?

 

[Go Hungry]

(sorry, I'm having to edit myself a lot because apparently Kid finds wealthy people extremely... troublesome.)

So the money is part of it, and it makes it very complicated. But it's not really about money. How do you decide who you are? How safe you are? What you need for safety?

How do I feel less scared all the darn time?

I'm going to have to see if I can focus on this part. (Oh wow, epiphany.. okay we're cool) I actually deleted a big paragraph I had about the stresses of moving from one social class to another. It is a bizarre and alienating experience. Honestly, this affects people who don't have PTSD as well, because our society pretty much pounds 'money=self worth' into our skulls in virtually every way possible, including ones so subtle that even babies are susceptible to it.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-develop-growing-up-poor-part-2/

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-develop-growing-up-poor/

I think this links are pertinent because they help illustrate the extent to which it affects a person. I think this factors highly into your low self-value when surrounded by rich folks. It's not you, it's societies customs and expectations that have been drilled into your head for decades.

(okay, I've got to stop here, this is triggering me hard and it is getting out of hand.)

Best Wishes...

 

[Friday]

(The short version).

You know how poor people are just... People? So are wealthy people.

Money can be all there is to a person, having it or not, but the vast majority of people I've known in my life... Whether they have or come from money or poverty? Are just people. Quirky, flawed, normal, ordinary people.

 

[Sighs]

So having been both poor and rich you have a good understanding of the fact that your inherent value as a person is not affected by either.More than a lot of people ever figure out.

 

[Neverthesame]

I am what one would refer to as "middle class". I grew up with not a ton of privilege. But my basic needs have always been met.

I have had friends on both sides of the poverty line. From wealthy people with huge houses, to people who struggle to make rent in low income housing.

My personal beliefs as far as money and it's effect on my happiness, has changed considerably over the last decade. I used to want more of it. I used to think wealth was a measure of a person's worth. That wealthy people must be happier, healthier and all around just better off than the working class. I don't doubt for some of them that is true, but certainly not all.

Since I was diagnosed, I have lost my career. I have battled with depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, anger, insomnia and a massive sense of self-hatred. Most (scratch that) All, of which I still am fighting with. Substance abuse is something I did, for me it was booze. Though I don't consider myself an alcoholic, I won't explain that here, I'll save that for a different thread.

Since all that, I have gotten more or less back on my feet. I am gainfully employed. Which I was surprised to find, is more than enough for me. I don't want more. Since being diagnosed, I have lost my desire for money. I know I need some, to fulfill my needs, food, shelter, and clothing.

Maybe it's the sense of a shortened future. Perhaps It is my depression is affecting my ability to desire for better things. Could even be the fact that the only thing I desire is to be distracted from my own mind. You don't need money to do that. With a little imagination, watching grass grow can be quite distracting, lol.

I have noticed though over the last year or so, a rather unsettling thing. After my granddad passed. Time came for the executor of the estate, to divide the share between my parents and aunts and uncles. Got a bit ugly between a couple of them. I was rather saddened that people who cared for one another, could be so easily inclined to throw away a lifetime of growing up together, over a few thousand pounds. Fortunately, everyone has since made up, the family is now back to it's usual disfunction. Lol.

To make a long story short, I no longer see value in money. I don't care if someone is impoverished, middle class, wealthy or super ri ch. Every one of those people are still people. Complete with their own attributes and flaws. The size of the number in their bank account, is really quite meaningless as far as I am concerned.

 

[rightkindofme]

So, Man of Measure to Homeless Ex Veteran Hobo in one week. Jobless and penniless with three months. I do not drive a nice swanky car any more and My clothes all come from Charity shops and do you know what, I feeel that I am a much better man for it now, I have more time for others hence my devoting as much time as I can to helping others here on the forum in an unnofficial Capacity.

Thankyou for this thread @rightkindofme is has brought home to me why I actually feel better now than I ever did when I had money, It did not make a better man of me it made me selfish and wanting more than I could afford, I live week by week now and Yes... I am Happy. :D

I feel like this is part of it. My ability to help people is very important to my sense of self.

Well, that would put you in a very select minority, heh. I heard a radio interview with a guy who wrote a book called Blue Collar Roots/ White Collar Dreams . He talked about something called impostor syndrome which you sound like you might suffer from. I think people who've gone from poverty to wealth are a special class of people with a breadth of experience to draw from that others will never have. Anyway, you survived a terrible life, abuse, etc., and you came up smelling like roses at least in material terms. I don't know what else you or anyone else could ask of you.

I actually presented on overcoming impostor syndrome last month at a conference for writers. Heh. It's a fascinating thing! I definitely have it. They say up to 80% of people have it at some point.

 

[rightkindofme]

I would love if you shared how you became good with money, if you came from a painful past. Any pointers would be great. That may be another thread, or feel free to share how you believed in yourself, enough to connect to such a power symbol in our culture.
Thanks.

Well, part of it is: I always pay myself first. I save and save and save and save. When I lived on $1200/month (in a very high cost of living area) I always maintained a savings of a minimum of $3,000 and it has grown from there. I started small with investments: $20 at a time. Then I married my husband and he had an inheritance from his family. That right there is how people get rich and I think it sucks and it isn't fair. He had about $150k in investments from his grandparents.

Then I diversified like crazy. I have a little bit in everything. I'm terrified of losing money in one market so I balance it out across international stuff and and and. I have 401ks, mutual funds, IRAs and just generic stock. I have bonds and annuities. I'm completely paranoid. I'm paying off my mortgage at a really rapid rate. I will own my house outright before I'm 40.

But the reality of "how do I do this" is.... I married a computer programmer at the height of the market. (I didn't marry him for that reason. I married him because he was the first person to actually address my trauma background. Then it just so happened that he was doing well financially.) I live frugally most of the time and put 50% of his income into savings/mortgage/investments. He won't make this kind of money forever. Guys in his profession have a really hard time finding work past 45. I don't have many more years left of him having a high salary.

Once he can't get a programming job he's totally screwed. He doesn't have many other marketable skills and I need us to be set and stable before then.

So I pay me first in the form of investment income.

That's how I do it. :)

 

[rightkindofme]

I wish I knew the answers to those questions because my T keeps bringing it up! What do YOU think?

So what would you need to feel "safe"? My T has asked me this one too. I told him I thought "safe" was a fairy tale for children and it might be kind of a mean trick at that. But that "safe" to me was the feeling, true or false, that I had a pretty good idea what was coming and that I could handle it, what ever it was.

There's the family you are born in to and the family you pick up along the way. Sometimes our true family is made up of people we meet along the road.

Do you know what you're scared OF?

I try very hard to be nice to my neighbors. They've been very good to me for a decade now. We exchange presents around holidays and when folks have to go to hospital we will bring meals and such. I really like the community I lucked into and I don't want them to feel bad. I know they offer me help because they want to feel good about helping someone.

What do I think is important? That my neighbors can talk to each other. That we can ask to borrow tools and we can talk about how things are going. I value that my neighbor came and asked me for advice on how to handle interpersonal issues with teenagers when he was coaching the high school girls baseball team because he knows I was a teacher. I value that people care about my opinion.

Safe and scared are tied together. I piss people off. Sometimes... on purpose... sometimes I swear I didn't do it on purpose!!!! I am a loud, bombastic, opinionated person and a lot of people want to take me down a few pegs. I don't know how to feel secure enough to feel like, "Even if you want to take me down a few pegs you can't."

What does that mean? As little as social ostracism/humiliation to being hit. I've had a whole range of experience. There have been a lot of people who feel like the right way to treat me is to hit me in the face hard enough to knock me down then literally step on my skull.

I really piss people off.

So I'm scared. I deal with some people who have genuine power and they could hurt me very badly if they wanted to do so. If I got on their bad side. That's really scary. I don't feel like I am high enough in social status to get any protection from police, etc if I ran into problems again. Especially not with the crowd I run with--I'm very low status a lot of the time. Which could be just my opinion.