Sexual Assault I Think I Was Raped - But I'm Devastated That I'm Not "sure"

[The Albatross]

Doubled back around to my remark about women in the 40's through 60's. I woke up in the middle of the night and rolled over the sexual permissiveness of the 60's and 70's... "free love"/"swinging" hedonism/pleasure. I think that those two eras fundamentally transformed and muddied more the waters to be navigated for young women today. Not to say these situations didn't occur before, they certainly did... but to me they further complicate the issues for our young women and girls. The good thing is that we have dialogue about it now and are much more inclined to discuss it rather than give over to silent shame and self condemnation.

 

[Chava]

If it was me in her situation and I had a partner and my friends were suggesting the guy who is accused of rape was interested in me then I would not isolate myself with this person and definitely not get drunk with them.

This is what says a lot to me but I have a hard time articulating. Even if she didn't consent, it would still be rape, but she certainly missed some extremely obvious points for boundaries...she even willingly let them slip (the drinks, the shared room...all after saying "No" the first time)...which is actually what I'd be questioning instead (because she can not remember and we can not tell her if she was raped...and as others have noted, putting that on a guy if it didn't happen would be horrible).

I sort of came from the angle of past boundary violations (and also triggers), but maybe there isn't anything like that in the past. In any case, this was a boundary fail. I've been there, and that's the part to concern yourself with at this point. Since looking back over this, the only facts we have are that you said "No" the first time and he listened (but was obviously interested), that you went out with him again the second night and repeated the whole drinking scenario, even knowing it maybe wasn't a good idea, and still went back to sleep in the same room...and then really do not know what happened.

It's all just unfortunate. I've been assaulted but I've also been in plenty of these kinds of situations and it doesn't feel good, but that doesn't mean you can resolve it by assigning black-or-white meaning to something that is perfectly gray. You maybe can't resolve it but you can work on safe or clear boundaries for yourself in the future so you don't leave yourself or others feeling so confused. This is a very individual thing, but one example that works for me is not accepting an invitation to a guy's house within the first few dates (like he can't cook dinner for me if we've only gone out a couple times, but we'll go out somewhere public and hopefully visit longer or do something new). If he can't tolerate that, he can move along.

 

[rightkindofme]

This is why I am a fan of "Yes means yes" laws. If you haven't said yes then it is rape. Clears up the confusion.

 

[Chava]

Clears up the confusion.

Not if you have no memory of saying yes or no. I would not call this rape...really cruel to the guy if it didn't happen. We don't know and can't really affirm this for the OP, right? She could work on the boundaries to feel more control in the future. That's obvious. That still doesn't excuse rape, but it's an easy thing to do.

 

[Peach]

This is why I am a fan of "Yes means yes" laws. If you haven't said yes then it is rape. Clears up...

Maybe words were never even spoken. She could have come on to him, which then means 'yes'. We'll never know.

 

[Chava]

If you haven't said yes then it is rape

Then I've had nothing but rape. I think this is a ridiculous law because are you supposed to remember to say "yes" at some point when you have your tongue in a guy's mouth? Sorry, but my participation always meant yes. My "No" meant "No." So did trying to push them away and trying to keep my clothes on. My non-consent and non participation because I was passed out probably meant no too, but I have no memory to guide me either way in those cases. Maybe I participated in part of a blackout. I have no idea and never will. So I stopped partying in hotels.

 

[Peach]

I've been thinking about this all day and it still makes me angry. She was damn lucky she didn't end up in a No Tell Motel bathtub missing a kidney or was kidnapped and sold to a sex trafficker!

 

[Chava]

Why does it make you angry @Peach ? If you've never gotten too drunk, that's great, but most of us have been there.

She still could have been taken advantage of, but there's just no way to know...and the only lesson going forward would be to hold to those boundaries she imagined but caved on. Guys can be sort of dense. If she said "no" but went out drinking the next night and back to the same room to sleep, it would be easy enough for messages to get pretty damn confusing. But like I said, I've been there. No judgment. Just sorry I don't think we can affirm anything for the OP.

 

[ghotiff]

taken advantage of,

I chose this language over "rape".

I have been in similar circumstances, not to do with alcohol but to do with my dissociative trauma-based responses. While I felt "taken advantage of" and felt horrible I don't consider it rape, because I don't believe the men thought of it that way. I believe they saw my passive response (fawn) as consent, and while I was hurt by the experience I don't blame them particularly as earlier in our interaction there was good moments (ie this was not a stranger, but a friend etc).

This is just a general comment, not specific to the OP, but I think it can feel like rape, but not legally be rape.

 

[RussH]

inferring that support is only to validate it as rape and take away any responsibility from the person

No I did not infer this. I am simply stating that whether this is rape or not rape, she feels traumatized, and on that basis alone we should support her as she deals with the trauma.

 

[rightkindofme]

A long time ago I thought I could "read the signals" and figure out who wanted to have sex with me based on that. Then I found out that I am a rapist. Apparently I can't read the signals.

I decided that I never wanted to make someone feel like that again. I have asked for permission before I engage with anyone sexually ever since. It has not made the sex less awesome and I have the security of knowing that I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that everyone wants to be here doing what they are doing.

I'm not ok with wondering if I'm going too far. My values are not universal.

 

[Aliceinwonderland91]

There has been an awful lot of activity on this thread since I last checked it. Thank you all for responding - whether you think it was or wasn't rape.

I have no desire to be a rape victim and I agree with @joeylittle that labelling it might not help me. I was just looking for clarity in case it helped me to move on - this is why I wrote in this forum in the first place.

I just want to clear a few things up. I have not confronted him about this yet (I am not sure if I will - but have no immediate plan to) so he has no idea that I think he might have raped me, he just thinks I'm ignoring him (hence why he contacted me asking why). I have not gone to the authorities. Since starting this thread I have spoken to a few more people about what happened and my boyfriend, my friend, and parents have encouraged me to - but (partly for reasons addressed in the above debate) I have no plans to do that either at present. My question for @RussH was more motivated by wondering what step I could take if I chose to.

My main motivation for doing so would be, given that this person is in a friendship group of mine, what if another one of my friends reveals a similar story about him in 6 months time. Or a stranger does - and I could have prevented them from going through that. I think the counter to that has been expressed above. Damaging (or ruining) a potentially innocent mans life is not something I wish to be responsible for.

I doubt, given my uncertainity, that I will ever come forward. Even if I decide that I think, on balance, it was rape.

I am aware that I made several bad decisions on that evening, and subsequently - that I do not deny. It was my decision to get drunk even though it probably wasn't the best idea. I could have said no to that. I could not have said yes or no to what happened afterwards because of how drunk I was - and I will never agree with what some of statements above imply. Namely that the decision to be drunk around him gave implicit consent and therefore it definitely wasn't rape.

He may have been as drunk as I was and not realised that he was taking advantage of me, but he has told me that he remembers the evening. I do think that he took advantage - either he is aware of that (so he is not my friend) or his definition of what is not taking advantage of someone differs greatly from mine (so he is not my friend). I also think that he is not my friend because of how he manipulated me into not telling anyone.

Either way I have cut off all communiction with him and I am now seeking professional help. I think the idea that I should just chalk it up to experience, "learn my lesson" (that I can't trust people? even if they're supposed to be my friend? I'd rather not) and move on is a little unfair - particularly given the setting.

I chose to do, or not do, dangerous things all the time - for e.g. driving. If I crash my car into a wall and get hurt it's my fault. I will take responsibility. If someone crashes into me and I get hurt it is not my fault. I made the decision to get into that car and drive it around - but it is not my fault someone crashed into me.

The logic applies here - I made the decision to get drunk with someone I thought was my friend. That did not give him permission to rape me (or "take advantage" of me). It is not my fault.