Flooding Vs Emotional Expression

[DogwoodTree]

And have a preformed plan. For example, it may include breathing exercises, exercise, sleep, reaching out for help etc.

What does "reaching out for help" look like?

No one in my world can handle my reality. Not my DH (he's lost in all this...overwhelmed with the parts he already knows), not my family (they're not safe), not my friends (they're clueless), and certainly not my kids (they're young...and I'm supposed to be Mom, not crazy-person). I've never, ever, ever had someone in my life that I felt like I could depend on them in my craziness and weakness, not even as a small child. I had to manage my own needs because no one else could handle my needs on top of their own.

Two parents, two step-parents, countless teachers and church people and youth group leaders...and no one could handle it. One teacher, when I tried to tell her what was going on at home, literally said, "I can't handle this pressure" and dropped the whole thing. Two youth group leaders, when I asked them for help, said that unless I was being raped (as in, intercourse...all the touching and talking and teasing and everything didn't count), they just didn't want to get involved. I learned over and over from every adult in my life that my problems didn't matter to anyone else. Thinking over it all...I really can't find an exception, anyone who said, "You matter enough for me to help you. You deserve to be safe. You deserve to be protected. You deserve to be heard. You deserve to be the real you." ...until I left for college, got a counselor so I wouldn't follow through with hurting myself, and she insisted that we report my step-dad so my sisters would be safe. And by that time, my soul was already so crippled that I didn't know what love or support or caring could be, and didn't know what I was even looking for. Still don't.

I truly have no clue what it means to lean on someone else with this mess. They can't handle my reality, and they can't change my emotions. So what in the world can they do that would, in fact, help?

Other people can get hugs, or verbal validation, or compliments on things they do well, or prayers when they're struggling...none of that clicks for me. I don't trust any of it. In my family, love has always, always been used as a bargaining chip.

My Ts...even reaching out to them...they ask what I want from them for help, and I really, truly don't know. If I knew that, I would've found a way to get it already, I would've figured out for myself how to fix this mess. I'm not playing the victim role waiting for someone to come rescue me--I just really, truly don't know what the solution is...not to a level of detail that I can actually work with, anyway. I guess that's why I keep asking for explanations and descriptions...so I can picture it...and try to create that in my world. But right now, it's more like trying to build a replica of a building that I've never seen and don't yet have access to.

(or denying they exist at all, numbness (which to me IS overwhelm)

Yes, this is true. Hadn't really thought about it that way yet...

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear @DogwoodTree , I must rush to work.. however I can relate to feeling (or I myself know) the total despair, hopelessness, feeling like an alien; the disregard if one in a million you get the courage to ask for help, & perhaps the worst happens. :( These too have emotions & history to be overcome.

I will come back. Let me just say, I don't mean it without gentleness & kindness. In fact, it comes from a place (myself) of having no spouse or workable familial support (3 family left- rest dead- 2 I haven't seen for decades), & a plethora of other obstacles to work through: self-harm, maladaptive coping, suicide attempts (2), suicidality, overwhelming fear of reaching out & being a burden, worthlessness. Etc.

In the tiniest thumbnail I can ask however, how about educating your family? Would they be receptive? Because however when all is said & done, we own our ptsd. They didn't cause it, can't control it, can't cure it. But we can do something. And if anyone- one person- can help to support that by seeing more in us than we can- it makes a great difference.

:hug:

 

[DogwoodTree]

how about educating your family? Would they be receptive? Because however when all is said & done, we own our ptsd. They didn't cause it, can't control it, can't cure it.

My family is actually very educated on what in our denomination is called "inner healing"...and biased. My mom travels to third-world countries to teach this stuff, and does a lot of lay-counseling through her church. But they all think...if you just forgive well enough...all the junk will go away. And as long as you still have junk...you haven't forgiven well enough. There are no other options or explanations for these kinds of problems (except maybe generational sin...which is solved by asking for forgiveness for earlier generations...or demonic attack...which can only happen to any extensive degree if you've left a spiritual door open by sin or unforgiveness...or personal sin...such as allowing yourself to be angry at someone no matter what that person did).

My family is extremely good at giving the right performance...appearing to be "good", to have it all together. My mom says all the right things, especially if someone else is listening. (A few of the things she's said when no one else can hear the conversation, though...oh my.) Except that she can't face the idea that maybe there's still anything wrong with her, or with anyone else in the family.

For the past two years, most of the negative energy has been directed at me. This is the way my family has always worked. I know what it's like on the other side of that game because I played it so well on that side for so long. For most of the past few decades, my youngest sister or my dad was the scapegoat--everything wrong in the family was somehow connected to issues with one of them. If a crisis was rising, or conflict was eating at someone...find a way to make it someone else's fault, then you become innocent enough...a martyr...willing and able to make the concessions needed to work it out.

But then I stopped playing the game, because I saw how unproductive and destructive it was. So now my sister and my dad are playing along on the other side...that everything wrong has something to do with my issues. If Mom is stressed about something...it's because I'm not doing my job well enough in supporting her (I work for her, too). If two people aren't getting along on something, that's okay because "we" (those two people) are better than the scapegoat and therefore we can be nice to each other and figure this out.

I think my mom has been reading up and researching, trying to understand why we have so much conflict if I say no to her on something. She's learned about the drama triangle, and we had a long conversation about it last week. But it is absolutely amazing to me the kinds of distortions she comes up with to keep seeing herself as completely innocent in all of this.

I'm not trying to blame her and make her the bad guy instead of me...she keeps saying I'm "judging" her and that I should forgive her already and see how healthy she is so that I can trust her. But it's not judgment. It's discernment. It's recognizing that I have issues AND she has issues...and I can't change HER issues, only mine. So I have to distinguish between what is mine and what is hers. But she feels "accused" by me when I don't take responsibility for the whole problem.

She says she's "afraid" of me--note that I never yell, cuss, call names, pitch a fit, walk out on conversations, or make generalized accusations (that is, having no examples to back up the problems I point out when asked to explain my perspective--I don't volunteer my thoughts, but I'm able to back up my opinions with concrete examples when asked, and then they say, "When are you going to forgive me for that already??")...all of these are things that other people in our family do often.

She says that if I want her to feel less afraid of me, I should love her more. It's all about what I'm doing wrong or not doing right. Even when she gives examples for "her issues", it's somehow my fault. When she said last week that she has filters, too (after saying that my filter was my belief that our family still has dysfunctional issues), her first example of her filter was that she had put too much confidence in my unconditional love for her (which is a not-so-subtle way of saying that the real problem here is that I don't love her well enough). When I called her on that, she replaced it with "I've dumped too much of my dysfunction on you"...but somehow my opinion that the family is dysfunctional is still an unfounded filter.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Okay, related question...

Why is it important to know where in your body you're experiencing an emotion? Is it normal to have localized sensations for each emotion?

At my session yesterday, T asked about and I tried describing how I was feeling emotionally at one point. Then T asked where I felt that in my body. I couldn't pin it down. My body was frozen. I couldn't stand the thought of moving, and didn't want to be there any more. But I couldn't tolerate seeing myself move and feeling my body move long enough to move away. Shame...it was all over. My cheeks felt really hot, but that's all I could identify, and I couldn't make myself say the words.

What kinds of answers are they looking for when asking that question? And what are they trying to accomplish?

 

[joeylittle]

The 'where do you feel it in your body' is a biggie in therapy school. It's to actually diminish the power of the emotion a bit by being able to categorize it in a specific way. In order to identify where it is, a person usually has to interrupt their own train of (emotional) thought.

Personally, I don't feel them in my body, except for in my throat/chest because that's where I cry from, and I cry easily. I used to get really mad. T: "Tell me where you feel that in your body" (beat, beat, beat) Me: "NOWHERE!!!"

In the example you describe, the actual challenge would have been to say, out loud, 'my cheeks are hot'.

 

[Fadeaway]

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/12/mapping-how-emotions-manifest-in-the-body/282713/

Maybe this will be helpful. It's an interesting study about where people feel emotions. For shame, cheeks were the most noted. You were able to identify that and that is pretty good.

 

[Friday]

What kinds of answers are they looking for when asking that question? And what are they trying to accomplish?

I. Accomplishing first off... Self awareness (emotional monitoring, which is half of the whole durn game in emotional monitoring & regulation) for us, general Information & tells for them.

Example) If someone says they feel anxious // where in your body? // the answer will actually outline to a degree how much is psychological & how much is neurological/physiological. A racing heart, ringing ears, hot & cold flashes, being violently ill? These describe severe anxiety that the sympathetic nervous system is highly involved in. Meanwhile, if someone's body isn't reacting at all...their pulse is calm, there is no visceral response, etc.? It's more of a psychological thing, because their nervous system hasn't taken the torch and run with it. Both are anxiety (if they're naming it correctly, and it happens that people don't). They're different degrees, however. The absolute lack of both body awareness &/or mental awareness is also hugely telling for where a person is at. If their heart is racing, but they don't know it? Or there are too many confusing things to process? Or they can feel just bloody fine, but they lack the language to express it? Or, or, or. There are dozens and dozens of different ways disconnected, to disassociated, to numb, to cold in not feeling as well as scores of ways of feeling. Where in the spectrum one falls in general and in that moment? Super useful.

II. What kind of answers are they looking for? Truth. What you're feeling and where and to what degree... Or not.

III. There's a thread on here I can't link right at the moment (I am experiencing technical difficulties ;) ) called "The Iceberg of Emotion". Hugely useful. Emotions are often layered, and the piece we may be feeling? Is usually made up of many other pieces. Another thing that describing where one feels something does, is to help parse out what is in the rest of the iceberg.

To keep using anxiety as an example... Anxiety in my belly... Can be cold dread. Or it can be butterflies from being attracted to someone! Radically different / similar feelings. Body sensations are often like having CliffNotes to a complicated book. Because the way I'd describe the butterflies is a whole helluva lot different from the way I'd describe dread (or fear, or encroaching anger, or, or, or. As a matter of fact, "anxiety in my belly" is a way I describe a very specific kind of anxiety I get, none of it a good thing.

***
Personal & Perhaps not relevant) I lose my emotions from time to time. Absolutely no body sensations whatsoever, because the emotions are gone. In one of a few different ways. Whether I've got my sociopath hat on, or I'm numb, or partially to completely disconnected, or disassociated. Body sensations? Pure and simple don't always happen for everyone. Most of the time, however, my emotions run pretty hot. I've got a comorbid disorder where that's pretty normal. (The intense emotions and the way they don't fade isn't normal, it's normal for them to be that way in the disorder). Then PTSD comes through spinning the damn kaleidoscope (or jumping on it). I have a wary truce with my emotions at present. (They've been the enemy for a few months. Errrr... Longer. But I've had truces, or flat out loved them, as well.)

Therapists (good ones) looking for body sensations help both us & them in the monitoring and regulation thing. There is no "right" answer. Only true answers. And those answers vary a whole helluva lot between individuals.

 

[Kailani]

Oh Dogwood tree I can relate! When i first got symptoms of PTSD really really bad I thought they were demons cuz me and a friend had used a ouija board to contact a friend who had died. I thought it was demons for the longest time. ?church related. Although I am convinced that God saved me through church in so many ways. All that plays heavily with the PTSD though. Again the symptoms came back and I thought I was under a witchcraft curse and had demons again-torture!!! Now I know when I think I have demons it's actually PTSD. Used to have nightmare of fighting a demon.uggg Please don't ever fall for that crap people-what a nightmare! People just son't get what they can't see....uggggg

 

[barefoot]

I used to get really mad. T: "Tell me where you feel that in your body" (beat, beat, beat) Me: "NOWHERE!!!"

I'm glad I'm not the only person who does this! :-) I have quite a difficult time with this question and generally get very irritated when my therapist asks. She tends to not really ask anymore! I think my difficulty is that sometimes I don't really get it and can't feel anything - I'm not very connected with my body generally - and sometimes I do feel something but for some reason I feel a bit awkward/embarrassed about it and then I don't want to say/can't articulate it.

I think these kinds of body-related questions are partly to help us fully connect with and actually consciously experience whatever feeling/emotion we're experiencing in that moment, as opposed to just 'talking about it' in a heady, intellectual and possibly quite detached way.

 

[hodge]

Unfortunately, I'd have no problem answering that question, though my therapist evidently doesn't follow that school of thought. I often feel nausea from anxiety. I go through Pepto Bismol like crazy. I mean, I don't overdo the doses, but I do have to take it most days. Even then I sometimes throw up from anxiety. Not in about a week, though.

 

[Tinyflame]

Hi @DogwoodTree just wanted you to know I didn't forget about my promise to come back. Though I apologize I can't generate thoughts well today. I feel like 'feelings' devoid of a brain! :rolleyes:

This:

My family is actually very educated on what in our denomination is called "inner healing"...and biased. My mom travels to third-world countries to teach this stuff, and does a lot of lay-counseling through her church. But they all think...if you just forgive well enough...all the junk will go away. And as long as you still have junk...you haven't forgiven well enough. There are no other options or explanations for these kinds of problems (except maybe generational sin...which is solved by asking for forgiveness for earlier generations...or demonic attack...which can only happen to any extensive degree if you've left a spiritual door open by sin or unforgiveness...or personal sin...such as allowing yourself to be angry at someone no matter what that person did).

was not exactly what I meant by education. I meant the neuro-biological facts about ptsd, what it is, why it affects us , why we feel & react as we do, what we can't do, & what we need to do about it. Would they tell someone with Type I Diabetes to do the above & not take Insulin? If so there's no educating there.

But most of all, though it all hurts (or causes hurt) I (personally) would forego trying to change their minds or get their approval. Work only on yourself, difficult as they are to entirely separate sometimes. :hug: What you are responsible is for what you believe. What you are responsible for is how you act & treat others, not whatever they do.

PS, I would have thought like @hodge feeling 'lousy' etc is the sign posts (for me, eg throwing up headaches, other stuff, barring trauma-specific pain for some, eg pelvic etc), but different than pain just from injuries- fluid or triggered, but @FridayJones really explained it well. Wow FridayJones. :wideeyed: :tup: Thank you @FridayJones . :hug:

 

[DogwoodTree]

was not exactly what I meant by education. I meant the neuro-biological facts about ptsd, what it is, why it affects us , why we feel & react as we do, wht we cna't do, & what we need to do about it. Would they tell someone with Type II Diabetes to do the above & not take Insulin? If so there's no educating there.

I agree. But they don't want to see it that way. And I understand their resistance--they have their own trauma histories to cope with, and if faithing themselves out of that experience is what they've chosen as a coping method, I'm in no position to insist otherwise. It just makes it tough for me to still have problems when their belief is that I only have problems if I don't have enough faith.

forego trying to change their minds or get their approval. Work only on yourself, difficult as they are to entirely separate sometimes. :hug: What you are responsible is for what you believe. What you are responsible for is how you act & treat others, not whatever they do.

True. My family is just so enmeshed...it's really hard to create the space to believe differently than they do. They're (most of them) highly offended that I don't see things the way they do. I still have faith...I'm still a Christian...still in a similar kind of church actually. But there's disagreement between us, and that is threatening to them (to my mom, anyway).

I'll think on this some more. Still a lot of questions to explore...