Programs

[shimmerz]

I have a few things that feel so strong inside of me that it feels like a program. I won't go detail. It can be gruesome. But it is a life or death program. One which I had no control over for the longest time but is not higher up the brain structure ladder. I can see it as such now but have no idea how to break it.

I am wondering if there are many of us that feel 'programmed' in any way. I wish I could even describe what I mean by program but it is like this self destruct thing inside of me. It isn't just being afraid of something, or a habit of hiding someplace, but instead a consistent 'need' to perform a specific action that will lead to my death. It is triggered by several things and it is so strong.

Do any of your actions feel programmed?

 

[Truthful_Whispers]

Could be obsessions, repetitive self-sabotaging thoughts. OCD traits.

 

[shimmerz]

No, not thoughts. A drive for actions. And these actions come from prior to 1 year old.

 

[Friday]

I have patterns, for sure. Incredibly vexing when I can see them, but can't actually affect change.

Cases in point...

1) When my son is out of state with my ex? I shut down, hard. I've tried about 50 different ways to deal with this, but so far I have yet to be able to change or stop the shut down. It lasts for about a week whether I fight it or roll with it.

When my son is with my ex instate, there's a less severe shut-down, it lasts for about a day as long as I don't fight it... but it still happens. If I do fight it? It lasts all week. Ranges from a week of sleep, to a week of insomnia, to a week of lost time, to a week of rage/shaking/grief/pain/fury. Basically, I have to simply decide my son is already dead, and completely compartmentalize his whole existence in order to function. A mild shutdown, that takes about a day, a major one about a week.

2) What goes up must come down :p Any time I get super motivated/highly excited, etc.? I'm gonna crash down into self loathing & SI. That pattern I can't change, but I can alter how low I drop, come to find. When I'm on my A-game? I gentle the landing from Cloud9 well enough I don't even get depressed much less struggling with SI.

Either of these sound like what you mean by programs, or something completely different?

 

[Ronin]

I don't like that terminology.

Trained in reactions are just that. Trained-in reactions. And to a great degree overcomeable, psychological effect of them certainly, where not physical.

If it feels like compulsion to die? It's a liar by default, because it masks other needs. Needs where lack of their being met manifests AS a death wish, and that's a lie. Don't believe the lie.

(Edited to add: Apologies for sounding harsh, I just had way many people I cherish pull this 'programmed to die' in descriptions and it falls under 'stories I don't talk about', how that continued. So a topic I'm super blunt about in attempt to help people, before things do get bad.)

 

[Ronin]

Second thoughts.

@shimmerz, you didn't (objectively) have a control over your states & surroundings back then - but you do have it now.

All of you. Even the wee you's that just can't grasp it yet.

What keeps you safe, physically & emotionally, while you experience those needs? A need is a need, with time subsides; acting on that need has consequences that are harder to get rid of. It's easier to put something between the need & action while one pokes at how to control the need.

 

[Truthful_Whispers]

No, not thoughts. A drive for actions. And these actions come from prior to 1 year old.

Hmm..interesting. That's awfully young. Almost like an instinct, then.

 

[joeylittle]

Yes, I have things that are so automatic, I often believe I can't challenge them. But here's the thing: you can challenge anything. Whatever the instinct/learned behavior is, no matter how gruesome, no matter how apparently uncontrollable - as long as you can be aware of it, you can choose to re-train yourself.

I think it's hard, because it's frightening. People will tend to pick the devil they know, rather than risk meeting the devil they don't. And it's a pretty common thing, among people who struggle with any lifelong medical condition, to not know how to give up the parts of them that are most rooted in that condition.

But you catch yourself beginning to think in or act on the impulse, and then you stop, and turn your mind elsewhere - ideally to something more self-supportive than self-destructive. As long as you can think, you can choose.

Personally, I believe that core beliefs are what drive those early thoughts and actions. And core beliefs are very hard to truly get at, let alone change. But you can get at them, and you can change them, through just re-directing the behavior, over and over again.

The best analogy I can think of is free divers. I was reading recently about a woman who can hold her breath for, I believe, 9 minutes. Now, that is not the way we learn to breathe. And we learn to breathe from the instant we emerge into air. We learn that breathing goes in and out. We learn that to not breathe (as in when choking, or having trouble coughing as infants) is life-threatening. Eventually we learn how to hold our breath for certain activities. But we are practically 'programmed', to use your language, to breathe in and out at regular intervals.

And yet, there are people in the world who have trained their bodies to suppress a whole lot of programming, and to instead follow a different set of physical and mental cues. These people can hold their breath while diving hundreds of feet deep into the ocean, and then coming back again. They aren't born differently from anyone else - they have just chosen to learn a new way of breathing.

 

[Chava]

I have some of this for sure. My therapist calls them patterns, I think of it sort of as "wiring"....in the idea that neuroplasticity affirms that we can "rewire" many things, even very early, which my therapist also agrees with (it's just challenging).

My earliest body memory is probably <1 yr old. It took a long time to recognize this. But I was able to somehow separate part of myself from being swamped by the experience (which is the common response) and just partly observe. I realized my response and feelings didn't make much sense in light of what was actually happening in the present. But they were infant life-death responses related to current triggers. I found a way out through accessing sound and doing something internal with it (letting it regulate/calm), to a point that I could feel less immobilized and more present again. I could not just force myself to get up and go for a walk. I could have, logically, but the feeling was that I would have carried a lot of dread and panic with me, probably making the shutdown worse. I don't react with such intense immobilization to certain related triggers anymore.

Recognizing the trigger is hard enough, and then finding a way through (that reaches that level) is also hard. But the first step seems to be recognizing that it is an old pattern that does not actually fit well with current circumstances. These can be changed, but I know it's really hard.

I used to feel programmed to self destruct. Almost didn't matter what was happening in my life. I just had to feel on the verge of death. Then to a lesser extent, that continued for many years...needing to feel like I was suffering. That was a more subtle but pervasive pattern, not like a body memory exactly or something I could make a good connection to. I just had to really slowly and safely experience being alive. I'm glad my current therapist doesn't push me and understands I have to go easy even with good feelings. I can get overwhelmed by feeling alive.

 

[sun seeker]

As long as you can think, you can choose.

This begs the question, what do you do when you can't think? When you are so flooded by a trigger that the ability to reason is negligible? (I'm not saying this is the case with the OP - it happens to me.) Is this where you would need to repeatedly train yourself in a different behaviour when you are not triggered?

 

[shimmerz]

I can get overwhelmed by feeling alive.

This is a really interesting statement to me @Chava, thank you. I hadn't thought of this.

Incredibly vexing when I can see them, but can't actually affect change.

Yes, how you describe this fits quite well. I should add that I have a form of 'split consciousness'. The largest part of me (and @Chava I am doing a bunch on Norman Doidge work right now on neuropasticity, so this may be a help), seems to have this need to run (it is more like stumble in a daze), to a place that nobody will find me and become 'nothing' (which I am guessing is a child's version of death. However, as I have progressed in the past 8 years or so and have recognized the part that is driven to do so, there is an awareness for those around me who 'watch out for me' so that I am safe when this part is activated, so that they can 'find me easily'. This is not for a reason of survival, but instead so that I don't worry them sick or have them feel responsible for my 'disappearance'.

When my son is with my ex instate, there's a less severe shut-down, it lasts for about a day as long as I don't fight it... but it still happens. If I do fight it? It lasts all week.

Does this feel primal to you Friday? The consistency of it sounds genuine to my experience. Cause/effect. I am wondering what is involved in your experience of 'fighting it'?

If it feels like compulsion to die?

No, it feels like I was 'trained' to do it. I am not suicidal, I am not depressed. It isn't that at night time sometimes I randomly feel like I need to run and hide and die. No. Die is not even a word involved. Disappear. However, luckily I am co-conscious enough now (with training) to know (an itty bitty part within myself) that what that is going to mean is die. In the meanwhile I may have compromised myself by following through with the actions that will lead to this 'program'. Compulsion is not a strong enough word I don't think. Please note. Not suicidal. Can't relate at all unless I am in this mode. And it hits like a freight train. Fast.

Almost like an instinct, then.

Yes, there is an element of conflict here. I must disappear to save myself and recognize that in the moment, but struggle to understand the long term implications of such actions. Instinct and a sense of survival which ultimately will and has led to an extremely compromised (deadly) situation if I successfully follow through. I have not experienced this for some time (like a long time) and it has just come up again....it is freaking me out.

Whatever the instinct/learned behavior is, no matter how gruesome, no matter how apparently uncontrollable - as long as you can be aware of it, you can choose to re-train yourself.

Yes, this I believe and have put into practice often. Successfully. I am a firm believer in neuroplasticity and rewiring. However.....I am calling this a 'program', because regardless of the tricks I have used in the past to help myself out of crazy reactivity, this one seems to defy them all. I don't want to be keeling on someone else's ticket. I know it sounds drama, but I am afraid to say it isn't.

I have tried EFT, Shaman Journeying, working with Trance Masters, clonazepam, ativan, you name it.... or maybe not....

That's why I am asking. I hope I am describing this in words that others can understand. Sorry if I am unclear.And thank you for helping with this. I really appreciate it.

 

[shimmerz]

train yourself in a different behaviour when you are not triggered?

We must have posted at about the same time Sun. I would be open to any ideas how this could be done. I am not certain how I could do this......any ideas are greatly appreciated.