Yelled At By Psych Doc! Called Me An Addict!!!

[DharmaGirl]

Ok, are you addicted, or have you developed dependence? Do you rob your friends or do anything you have to to get your pills? Do you always take more than prescribed or just when you are terribly overwhelmed? If not you are NOT addicted, you have developed dependence which means your body has adjusted to the medication. Google addiction vs. dependence. Too many people are under the impression that if you withdrawal from a medication you were addicted. No, you developed dependence like every other human being taking the drug. I don't know why your pdoc called you an addict. Our culture is to take a pill to make it better. You don't sound like you have a lot of addictive behaviors to me.

 

[Marymickaela]

Ok, are you addicted, or have you developed dependence? Do you rob your friends or do anything you ha...

My 1st response to your question was to say I’ve only developed a dependence, but I need to be honest. I’m both. With the Klonopin I’ve only been taking more when feeling overwhelmed and since putting my drugs into a weekly pill case have only reached for it 1 time in the last 3 weeks. I had made a vow to myself when I did this I would not self-medicate with the Klonopin and except for this 1 time haven’t broken that vow.

I wrote a really long response about this but it’s too long. I’ll just say I have an addiction to Vicodin and took some of my husband’s prescription when he had back surgery 4 years ago. I have been in treatment to get off Xanax and Vicodin 12 years ago. Back in 2002 I had a psych doc who was prescribing me massive amounts of Xanax and Klonopin. My H called her my drug dealer. She was also treating my teen daughter and we were dealing with her bipolar disorder, suicide attempts, and hospitalizations. I had a nervous breakdown in Nov. 2003 due to multiple stressors in my life. Job, daughter, no support, and made a suicide attempt by taking a drug overdose. I was hospitalized for the 1st time in my life at age 53 and dx’d bipolar. I was in and out of the hospital and treatment programs for the next two months and was never able to return to my job of 10 years that I had loved as that had been the big trigger for my suicide attempt.

I spent the next two years in a major depression, lying on the couch 24/7, unable to function. I then entered a wonderful partial program that saved my life. It taught me lots of coping skills and I also started seeing a wonderful therapist.

I’ve had 4 sleep studies, and even been to Mayo. I have no thyroid due to cancer at age 26. Sometimes my levels are all over the place, but they have basically kept me hyperthyroid in case there are any cancer cells left.

Lots and lots of other things to my story, but let’s just say I think I have a dependence to Klonopin as I’ve been able to take it as prescribed. But I do have addictions and an addictive personality. My father was an alcoholic and I would probably be one except I can’t drink due to all the meds I’m on. I get sick. I had no idea Lipitor magnifies alcohol by something like 5x’s. I had a glass of wine while out to dinner with my daughter and new husband a couple years back. I was staggering drunk on 1 glass of wine. It was so embarrassing and my daughter was livid with me until I discovered the link with Lipitor. I don’t drink.

I started EMDR therapy in July and it’s been extremely traumatic. My new therapist is wonderful and we are totally in tune with each other. I see her once a week and there are times it takes me days to recover from our sessions. But I haven't self-medicated. My psych doc told me once that the key to my getting better is EMDR. He knows about some of my worst traumas so had to know what his yelling at me would do with my PTSD. I plan to tell him he’s ruined some of the trust I had in him.

I went to bed last night and used a castor oil pack on my abdomen for 2 hours. It’s supposed to promote healing. Didn’t really sleep, but I take Melatonin and just rested and relaxed until morning. Who needs to sleep, right?

 

[Ronin]

Do you rob your friends or do anything you have to to get your pills? Do you always take more than prescribed or just when you are terribly overwhelmed?

That's assuming a rather extremist and misrepresenting view of what addiction is and how it works.

Not every addict is going to be so blatantly stupid & carricaturesque about their habit. Does not make it less a problem. & addiction isn't just what your body does or how you behave. It's how you think.

Let's not encourage this 'Oh! You're not addicted! Pat yourself on the back, they were just misinformed!' trace of thought when it's simply not true, and not helping.

 

[Ronin]

Didn’t really sleep, but I take Melatonin and just rested and relaxed until morning. Who needs to sleep, right?

Answer? Everybody. Those who don't even recognize the need for it anymore need to sleep the most.

All that wonder ~alternative~ ~good shit~ is good for nothing if you're not getting the basics covered, and whoever told you it's a replacement for healthy lifestyle and 'good enough' needs to lay off their uninformed advice, as it's seriously risking your life.

 

[Marymickaela]

New Answer? Everybody. Those who don't even recognize the need for it anymore need to sleep the most.

All that wonder ~alternative~ ~good shit~ is good for nothing if you're not getting the basics covered, and whoever told you it's a replacement for healthy lifestyle and 'good enough' needs to lay off their uninformed advice, as it's seriously risking your life.

That's pretty much what my psych doc said at our appointment last week. These are his exact words, but close to what he said and meant. No more sleeping pills and if I don't sleep for two weeks I don't sleep. My body will eventually adjust.

That was 3 nights ago and I haven't really slept since. I'm trying so many things to help. Getting up, watching some movies. My eyes are bad and I'm so tired and can't function I can't do anything productive like work on my quilts so I sit in my chair like a zombie. Eventually I go back to bed and lie there. I'm so tired this morning I'm feeling actually sick.

 

[Neverthesame]

I am sorry for what you are going through, I am. Truly.

Though I want to ask a few things to be clear. I also want to call this so far as I see it. Also I want to preface this with a very clear message.

I am not attacking you.

Your psychiatrist and you had formulated a plan to help you lower doses of your current meds?

You then saw a nurse practitioner about an unrelated health concern, which resulted you being prescribed something for your gastric reflux?

At some point during this visit, your current plan regarding your psyc meds regimen came up, was discussed with the nurse practitioner and was deemed to be too aggressive of a step down?

On your visit with your psychiatrist, you discussed what you saw as a better plan for your med regimen. Your psychiatrist disagreed?

This medication (Prilosec) is not agreeing with you, and causing you discomfort?

It got a bit heated, he spoke down to you, while not shouting, but was firm with you, perhaps even rude and condescending but not actually yelling?

While talking down to you, he told you that he feels that you are addicted to sleeping pills, that he does not want to give you more. As you have been having success sleeping on your own, using a more holistic approach?

As it is, your current dosage of sleeping pills is not effective anymore?

So you would need either a different medication. Which because of your history with this kind of medication, there isn't one. Or you need a higher dosage. Which your psychiatrist has deemed to be either dangerous or counterproductive towards your efforts of getting free from dependence on this kind of drug?

You then went home very upset, took your Tramadol early, plus more of the Klonopin than you were supposed to (not all at once but in a 24 hour period.) to alleviate the psychological distress you were experiencing?

Have I got all of this correct so far? If I don't, please, please, please correct me. I am listening, not judging.

From what I understand so far, I am concerned that you are self sabotaging a bit, with your meds. I don't want to be harsh like your psychiatrist, but I honestly can see the logic in what he said. Those pills are horrible things. You must know this?

They don't last. They are terribly addictive, dependency causing deamons. I know, I really do. I have taken them all, then drank on them when they stopped working. Then took more, then drank on more.

I am not telling you this from a good place of 8 solid hours of sleep a night. I get 2 or 3. Sometimes none. I hate it. I have gotten myself off the really hard ones, and quit drinking.

I still overdo the Benadryl, alot. It needs to stop. Like seriously I Need to stop it. I still do it because I am desperate. But I still think those drugs are horrible. But I understand the desperation of insomnia. It's torture, it really is. Don't lose sight of the hope.

I read from you, who has managed to get some sleep on a low dose doing healthy things. That's amazing! You should be so proud of yourself for that. Damnit, you deserve it!

Whether or not your psychiatrist was being a jerk, he has a point. You don't need those things, you can do it. Keep trying to get off them.

Prilosec, isn't the only drug for treatment of gastric reflux. There are ones that are easier on the body. Book an appointment with your GP, find out more options.

Whether you choose to see the same psychiatrist, or find a new one. Please don't replace this one with someone who will just give you what you want.

If I've got this all wrong, please do correct me. I will try to keep as open a mind as possible, and listen.

EDIT: I am not saying you need to cold turkey your sleeping pills. I am saying that you you don't need them forever. In case that wasn't clear.

 

[Justmehere]

Sleep deprivation is awful to endure.

What did the sleep medicine doctor who did your sleep studies recommend you do to get better sleep?

Also Gastric reflex could be a side effect of half the medications you are on, like the Seroquel.

 

[joeylittle]

I'm trying so many things to help. Getting up, watching some movies.

This actually won't help. Here are a few things that, if you focus on them, could make a difference after about a week.

• No food 3 hours before bed (this will help the acid reflux too); limit liquids, and none with carbonation, sweetener, or fat
• No screens 2 hours before bed, including computer, phone, tablet, TV
• Keep physically active as best you can, up til an hour before bedtime (light activity, like picking up around the home, an easy walk, just trying to avoid prolonged sitting)
• Develop a bedtime ritual, and do it mindfully - so, if you are brushing your teeth, just pay attention to brushing your teeth. Ditto for anything else. The last part of the ritual could be sitting and reading for 30 minutes, or meditation - just think, gentle activity. Personally, I like crossword puzzles (on paper).
• When you go to bed, try a recording of binaurals (google Dr. Jeffery Thompson for some good ones), or a sleep induction. Tell yourself clearly that you are going to lie there and rest, try and avoid the pressure to sleep.
• If you are still awake an hour later, get up again and go back to the last part of your ritual.

I know it's really annoying, and simple, and it's all stuff you've heard before, I'm sure. But really, creating good sleep hygiene is very akin to sleep training. Your system will adjust and catch on. It's much harder with your thyroid issues, but not impossible.

Also, seconding @Justmehere on how the meds can cause the reflux - that has definitely happened to me a few times. If prilosec isn't working for you, get pantoprazole (protonix) - prilosec didn't work for me, the panto. did. But the diet adjustments are the most important thing, hands down. The 6 inch elevation doesn't actually do anything (according to multiple ENTs I've worked with) - so if the elevation is potentially causing sleep disturbance, I'd suggest getting rid of it.

 

[DharmaGirl]

@Cashew, I'm a nurse, I've worked in Recovery, there is a huge difference between dependence and addiction. I read her new posts so I can see more now, but I would like you to treat me with more respect. I was not patting her on the back and telling her it's ok, I was writing in response to FridayJones post about withdrawal meaning addiction. Even if I were dead wrong, I deserve a respectful answer, as does everyone.

 

[Marymickaela]

Will respond to the last couple posts later. I got in to see my therapist this afternoon. We will probably do some EMDR on my psych doc appt. At this point the letter I started writing him is probably 3 pages long. I just poured out all my feelings about how upsetting the appointment was and very triggering for my PTSD. I need to cut it down to no more then 1 page.

I just want to add that he's been prescribing me sleeping pills for years and as recent as last August advocated and wrote a letter to my insurance company to cover his prescription for the Rozerem sleep pill.

 

[Ronin]

@DharmaGirl - Fair enough, and I apologize my post gave the impression it's attacking your willingness to help or experience, as that wasn't my intent. My intent was purely for the OP to not be further enabled with minimizing language or outright denying there is a rather deep issue going on, which it had seemed to me is happening.

 

[Marymickaela]

I am sorry for what you are going through, I am. Truly.

Though I want to ask a few things to be clear. I also want to call this so far as I see it. Also I want to preface this with a very clear message.

I am not attacking you.

Your psychiatrist and you had formulated a plan to help you lower doses of your current meds?

You then saw a nurse practitioner about an unrelated health concern, which resulted you being prescribed something for your gastric reflux?

At some point during this visit, your current plan regarding your psyc meds regimen came up, was discussed with the nurse practitioner and was deemed to be too aggressive of a step down?

On your visit with your psychiatrist, you discussed what you saw as a better plan for your med regimen. Your psychiatrist disagreed?

This medication (Prilosec) is not agreeing with you, and causing you discomfort?

It got a bit heated, he spoke down to you, while not shouting, but was firm with you, perhaps even rude and condescending but not actually yelling?

While talking down to you, he told you that he feels that you are addicted to sleeping pills, that he does not want to give you more. As you have been having success sleeping on your own, using a more holistic approach?

As it is, your current dosage of sleeping pills is not effective anymore?

So you would need either a different medication. Which because of your history with this kind of medication, there isn't one. Or you need a higher dosage. Which your psychiatrist has deemed to be either dangerous or counterproductive towards your efforts of getting free from dependence on this kind of drug?

You then went home very upset, took your Tramadol early, plus more of the Klonopin than you were supposed to (not all at once but in a 24 hour period.) to alleviate the psychological distress you were experiencing?

Have I got all of this correct so far? If I don't, please, please, please correct me. I am listening, not judging.

From what I understand so far, I am concerned that you are self sabotaging a bit, with your meds. I don't want to be harsh like your psychiatrist, but I honestly can see the logic in what he said. Those pills are horrible things. You must know this?

They don't last. They are terribly addictive, dependency causing deamons. I know, I really do. I have taken them all, then drank on them when they stopped working. Then took more, then drank on more.

I am not telling you this from a good place of 8 solid hours of sleep a night. I get 2 or 3. Sometimes none. I hate it. I have gotten myself off the really hard ones, and quit drinking.

I still overdo the Benadryl, alot. It needs to stop. Like seriously I Need to stop it. I still do it because I am desperate. But I still think those drugs are horrible. But I understand the desperation of insomnia. It's torture, it really is. Don't lose sight of the hope.

I read from you, who has managed to get some sleep on a low dose doing healthy things. That's amazing! You should be so proud of yourself for that. Damnit, you deserve it!

Whether or not your psychiatrist was being a jerk, he has a point. You don't need those things, you can do it. Keep trying to get off them.

Prilosec, isn't the only drug for treatment of gastric reflux. There are ones that are easier on the body. Book an appointment with your GP, find out more options.

Whether you choose to see the same psychiatrist, or find a new one. Please don't replace this one with someone who will just give you what you want.

If I've got this all wrong, please do correct me. I will try to keep as open a mind as possible, and listen.

EDIT: I am not saying you need to cold turkey your sleeping pills. I am saying that you you don't need them forever. In case that wasn't clear.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.
I saw my psych doc Oct. 13th. I saw the nurse practitioner a week later due to the withdrawal I was going thru from going off the Celexa cold turkey. She's the one who advised me that they only advise patients to stop one med at a time, otherwise if you are having adverse effects you know what's causing what. (makes sense) She also advised me to increase the Seroquel and call my psych doc to get on a lower dose of the Celexa. I would have called him, but he's not available Sat-Mon. When I spoke to him the next day he called in a lower dose of Celexa. I had the impression he was upset with me, but it could have been my imagination. I sat with a heating pad on my neck for almost two weeks due to the pain I was in.

I have been sick since Sept., on two trials of antibiotics and run fevers up to 101 daily. Throat clearing was horrible and I had a constant sore throat, even developed canker sores all over my tongue.

Last Wed is when I got in to see the ENT specialist who scoped my throat and diagnosed me with a type of acid reflux called LPR and put me on a new med, Prilosec, which I'm going to call him tomorrow and ask for something else.

Two days later (last Friday) is when I saw my psych doc. I tried explaining to him all the wonderful alternative therapies I'm using, but it was as if he already knew what he was going to say before I sat down. He's been prescribing me sleeping pills for years and we never discussed not using them. He even wrote a letter to my insurance company in August so they would pay for Rozerem.

After this upsetting visit I did take a Tramadol, but it was my night time dose. And I did take extra Klonopin. However, since October 13th that is the only time I've taken any extra Klonopin. I don't believe I'm addicted to sleeping pills as I can sometimes use them, sometimes not. I have built up a tolerance to benzos, which is what many sleeping pills are based on. Thus, he wanted to try Rozerem. I wasn't abusing sleeping pills. This is why him going off on me was so upsetting.

I just came from seeing my trauma therapist who treats me for PTSD. I will post about that separately. Basically his talking to me the way he did was traumatizing and triggering. We did EMDR and it was grueling. In the past I would have come home and taken Klonopin, but I'm determined to get off this horrible drug so I can start functioning again.