WhisperingUnicorn
Gold Member
With apologies to @Thehalflingninja for a possible thread hijack, I'll respond to your question, @Jemini ..
BTW, your name intrigues me, cuz my man is a "Gemini" by birthdate, and for YEARS used this to try to explain himself to people .. he actually WAS a twin in utero (tho his infant brother didn't survive the pregnancy and we think this might have pre-disposed him towards dissociative experiences more than the average person) and even thought for years (cuz he didn't know anything about PTSD or dissociation in particular) that he carried the dead spirit of his twin INSIDE him (how sad and awful!), but I digress ... :(:bawling::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::( :inlove:
If I understand your question correctly, and I do think this might apply back to @Thehalflingninja 's OP, you're postulating the idea that the "silent" parts might be MORE "integrated" in moments of silence, rather than "more" lost or buried or locked away, et al.
I am NOT a counselor, please let me make that disclaimer. So I have ONLY whatever "psychologically analytical powers" I may have accidentally taught myself over the years. BUT, I would say this seems ENTIRELY plausible. .. BUT, it would be somewhat circumstantially discerned.
In OUR experience, I would say I "feel" that my man is MORE integrated even when his other "parts" are "silent". This was NOT always so, but we have made an arduous journey to ensure that his "inner child/s" feel SAFE inside our relationship, and even inside HIMSELF, so that they have spoken up for themselves, have interacted with me in our OWN relationship/s, and have actively been remembering his/their past and taking steps to REDEEM it (including forgiving and reconnecting with his birthmom who was one of his past abusers, but was herself also a product of abuse, so he feels a STRONG empathy towards her in spite of her weaknesses, AND he is able to see how some of the GOOD things that she did (accidentally) in his formative years actually SAVED him from WORSE trauma....).
Sooooo ... here we are, YEARS into our journey together, and I "hear" the "littles" from time to time, in the course of normal interaction with my man.
(For example, just this afternoon, we're talking about future planning and building our house after we get married, and all of a sudden he's completely distracted and amused by one of the cat's behaviors and giggles like a little boy, completely derailing the rest of the "planning" conversation! [somehow simultaneously annoying but very CUTE to me nonetheless! No, this is NOT just an ADHD moment, though a counselor who didn't know my man as well as I do might easily assume so...But *I* recognize the voice change, the vocabulary change, etc. He's REALLY 7 years old in that split moment.] A moment later he was "right back" with me and we continued the "adult" conversation just like "normal.")
An experienced counselor might believe that he is just switching RAPIDLY - such as a little pop-up sentence or emotion in the middle of an otherwise "normal" talk. *I* happen to believe he's more integrated (I think he'd agree!) .. HE experiences himself more wholly, more "as one" when it comes to feeling/expressing the "little ones" .. (does it really matter which is which? *shrug* .. maybe not?)
So I think your proposal has merit!
BUT, these "little ones" WERE lost/buried/locked away and thus silent. AND wounded. AND (unintentionally) wounding my man on the whole. (I say "unintentionally" because we believe that these "others" FORMED initially to PROTECT my man in unspeakably horrible circumstances.)
It wasn't until he WILLINGLY (and of his OWN initiative - I did NOT pull this out of him, HE did not "force" anything, they "spoke" on their OWN! - one husband [of a DID wife] that I read described this process as integration "from the inside out" instead of outside in, contrary to conventional wisdom/counseling, btw...) started exploring his own flashbacks and trying to WEAVE TOGETHER a narrative of his past, to understand his own story.
WE did this TOGETHER, too.
I give my man a LOT of credit, he is very diligent, and was FOCUSED on his own healing, so he was MOTIVATED to find the main thread of his story, to really remember .. But this was something that we worked on together over YEARS of conversation .. I had to HELP him do this, because he would be so "lost" in the flashback, that when he would "come back" to himself, he wouldn't remember most of what he had just told me (cuz "someone else" was remembering!), he might only have phantom emotions or a vague idea.
So I wrote a simple outline, AT HIS REQUEST, piecing together what he had told me the best I could .. kinda a bullet point list of experiences he'd shared with me. But as we went over this outline, again and again, he started "owning" his own memories. ... As an aside, if I was nefarious or didn't have my man's best interest at heart, this process would have made him HIGHLY vulnerable to me to manipulate him, to "re-create" him in some way. THIS is one of the reasons I emphasize finding a LOVING, trust-WORTHY person to work with.
Now, memory is a funny, fluid, and organic thing. From what I have learned in brain science, there is a very real sense in which EVERY time we "remember" something, the NEW memory of the memory (etc.) can be evolved in some way (new neuro pathways formed, etc.), so that our final (and honestly believed!) version MIGHT have variance from "what really happened." This is why police want to get eye-witness accounts as close chronologically to the event as possible, cuz memory DOES "evolve" and a person might be completely unaware of how different their version 1 of a story might be from version 20, for example.
My man and I both KNOW that the memories might not be ENTIRELY reliable. BUT, this helped him form a more cohesive sense of SELF. Of his own "wholeness" so to speak. And we were very "clinical" about getting his own "eyewitness" accounts ... For this point, he could well be "deceiving himself" about "what really happened." .. *shrug*
But we have also been diligent about reconstructing what we know based on past pictures, past papers he'd written, we have re-visted geographical locations from his childhood, and we are even soliciting any kinds of memories from his own mom that we have been able to encourage HER to remember from those years ... ALL of which has so far supported his "memories" .. so, so far we have good reason to TRUST what his other "parts" have been saying. In completely unexpected and beautiful ways, I was the "safe place" he needed to put HIMSELF back together. Cuz I already SAW him as a cohesive whole, even if he didn't "experience" himself that way ...
This might be the spot at which my man would say, "too many words, honey, what are you REALLY saying?" ;) :inlove:
My point is this: The more "real" memories recovered, the more "emotional hurts" comforted, the more REAL griefs acknowledged and understood, the more AWARE the other previously silenced parts feel HEARD and RESPECTED and SAFE, the more LIKELY that a present "silence" might rightfully be interpreted as "out" and experiencing the REAL world WITH the primary front-self. (I don't really like the term "host.")
I don't know. I am NO expert. ;) What I DO know is I LOVE my man, I am COMMITTED to his wholeness and healing, as he is mine, :inlove: and we are in this TOGETHER, no matter WHAT. And this doesn't even include all the countless HOURS I have spent in prayer and research trying to understand his battle....If you ask me, I will NECESSARILY include Divine intervention as the entire basis for our story. We are living out a very REAL redemption story. Mine, too.
I hope ALL readers of this thread will be able to glean some hope from our experiences. :inlove:
~WU
BTW, your name intrigues me, cuz my man is a "Gemini" by birthdate, and for YEARS used this to try to explain himself to people .. he actually WAS a twin in utero (tho his infant brother didn't survive the pregnancy and we think this might have pre-disposed him towards dissociative experiences more than the average person) and even thought for years (cuz he didn't know anything about PTSD or dissociation in particular) that he carried the dead spirit of his twin INSIDE him (how sad and awful!), but I digress ... :(:bawling::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::( :inlove:
If I understand your question correctly, and I do think this might apply back to @Thehalflingninja 's OP, you're postulating the idea that the "silent" parts might be MORE "integrated" in moments of silence, rather than "more" lost or buried or locked away, et al.
I am NOT a counselor, please let me make that disclaimer. So I have ONLY whatever "psychologically analytical powers" I may have accidentally taught myself over the years. BUT, I would say this seems ENTIRELY plausible. .. BUT, it would be somewhat circumstantially discerned.
In OUR experience, I would say I "feel" that my man is MORE integrated even when his other "parts" are "silent". This was NOT always so, but we have made an arduous journey to ensure that his "inner child/s" feel SAFE inside our relationship, and even inside HIMSELF, so that they have spoken up for themselves, have interacted with me in our OWN relationship/s, and have actively been remembering his/their past and taking steps to REDEEM it (including forgiving and reconnecting with his birthmom who was one of his past abusers, but was herself also a product of abuse, so he feels a STRONG empathy towards her in spite of her weaknesses, AND he is able to see how some of the GOOD things that she did (accidentally) in his formative years actually SAVED him from WORSE trauma....).
Sooooo ... here we are, YEARS into our journey together, and I "hear" the "littles" from time to time, in the course of normal interaction with my man.
(For example, just this afternoon, we're talking about future planning and building our house after we get married, and all of a sudden he's completely distracted and amused by one of the cat's behaviors and giggles like a little boy, completely derailing the rest of the "planning" conversation! [somehow simultaneously annoying but very CUTE to me nonetheless! No, this is NOT just an ADHD moment, though a counselor who didn't know my man as well as I do might easily assume so...But *I* recognize the voice change, the vocabulary change, etc. He's REALLY 7 years old in that split moment.] A moment later he was "right back" with me and we continued the "adult" conversation just like "normal.")
An experienced counselor might believe that he is just switching RAPIDLY - such as a little pop-up sentence or emotion in the middle of an otherwise "normal" talk. *I* happen to believe he's more integrated (I think he'd agree!) .. HE experiences himself more wholly, more "as one" when it comes to feeling/expressing the "little ones" .. (does it really matter which is which? *shrug* .. maybe not?)
So I think your proposal has merit!
BUT, these "little ones" WERE lost/buried/locked away and thus silent. AND wounded. AND (unintentionally) wounding my man on the whole. (I say "unintentionally" because we believe that these "others" FORMED initially to PROTECT my man in unspeakably horrible circumstances.)
It wasn't until he WILLINGLY (and of his OWN initiative - I did NOT pull this out of him, HE did not "force" anything, they "spoke" on their OWN! - one husband [of a DID wife] that I read described this process as integration "from the inside out" instead of outside in, contrary to conventional wisdom/counseling, btw...) started exploring his own flashbacks and trying to WEAVE TOGETHER a narrative of his past, to understand his own story.
WE did this TOGETHER, too.
I give my man a LOT of credit, he is very diligent, and was FOCUSED on his own healing, so he was MOTIVATED to find the main thread of his story, to really remember .. But this was something that we worked on together over YEARS of conversation .. I had to HELP him do this, because he would be so "lost" in the flashback, that when he would "come back" to himself, he wouldn't remember most of what he had just told me (cuz "someone else" was remembering!), he might only have phantom emotions or a vague idea.
So I wrote a simple outline, AT HIS REQUEST, piecing together what he had told me the best I could .. kinda a bullet point list of experiences he'd shared with me. But as we went over this outline, again and again, he started "owning" his own memories. ... As an aside, if I was nefarious or didn't have my man's best interest at heart, this process would have made him HIGHLY vulnerable to me to manipulate him, to "re-create" him in some way. THIS is one of the reasons I emphasize finding a LOVING, trust-WORTHY person to work with.
Now, memory is a funny, fluid, and organic thing. From what I have learned in brain science, there is a very real sense in which EVERY time we "remember" something, the NEW memory of the memory (etc.) can be evolved in some way (new neuro pathways formed, etc.), so that our final (and honestly believed!) version MIGHT have variance from "what really happened." This is why police want to get eye-witness accounts as close chronologically to the event as possible, cuz memory DOES "evolve" and a person might be completely unaware of how different their version 1 of a story might be from version 20, for example.
My man and I both KNOW that the memories might not be ENTIRELY reliable. BUT, this helped him form a more cohesive sense of SELF. Of his own "wholeness" so to speak. And we were very "clinical" about getting his own "eyewitness" accounts ... For this point, he could well be "deceiving himself" about "what really happened." .. *shrug*
But we have also been diligent about reconstructing what we know based on past pictures, past papers he'd written, we have re-visted geographical locations from his childhood, and we are even soliciting any kinds of memories from his own mom that we have been able to encourage HER to remember from those years ... ALL of which has so far supported his "memories" .. so, so far we have good reason to TRUST what his other "parts" have been saying. In completely unexpected and beautiful ways, I was the "safe place" he needed to put HIMSELF back together. Cuz I already SAW him as a cohesive whole, even if he didn't "experience" himself that way ...
This might be the spot at which my man would say, "too many words, honey, what are you REALLY saying?" ;) :inlove:
My point is this: The more "real" memories recovered, the more "emotional hurts" comforted, the more REAL griefs acknowledged and understood, the more AWARE the other previously silenced parts feel HEARD and RESPECTED and SAFE, the more LIKELY that a present "silence" might rightfully be interpreted as "out" and experiencing the REAL world WITH the primary front-self. (I don't really like the term "host.")
I don't know. I am NO expert. ;) What I DO know is I LOVE my man, I am COMMITTED to his wholeness and healing, as he is mine, :inlove: and we are in this TOGETHER, no matter WHAT. And this doesn't even include all the countless HOURS I have spent in prayer and research trying to understand his battle....If you ask me, I will NECESSARILY include Divine intervention as the entire basis for our story. We are living out a very REAL redemption story. Mine, too.
I hope ALL readers of this thread will be able to glean some hope from our experiences. :inlove:
~WU
