Possible Parts

[shimmerz]

SD is a theory put out there for people who resort to having to use 'parts' due to past trauma experiences. It is usually something that happens because of trauma in the developmental years. Again, it is a theory. Seems pretty sound though. Many trauma therapists speak of 'parts'.

So for instance, I used to have a 'part' of me that ran outside in the freezing cold and laid down in ditches (to die I am assuming). I have no attachment (myself) to ditches whatsoever. No idea why I did that but it was really freaking dramatic and scary as crap for those around me. Myself? While in this 'ditch seeking part', I wasn't scared at all. Nor was the 'observer' who would try to talk this part into getting out of the ditch. No real emotion. Just an incredible need for safety that is many times conflicting with a 'immediate' need for safety that the part can't see.

 

[Thehalflingninja]

My therapist diagnosed me with DDNOS. She said that could change as she learned more. I had just resolved to stop hiding symptoms from her and told her so right after she shared that diagnosis. I shared about the dissociating into different ages with their own memories, voices, and behavior as well as dissociating into different I guess personality states. She looked at me closely and asked several questions. Her eyes got bigger. There was a pause, and then she asked if she could see me twice a week instead of once.

 

[WhisperingUnicorn]

Another way to think of this .. It's my firm conviction that ALL of us have "parts" in some sense. The average person can often be caught saying something like "Part of me REALLY wants to do this, but I shouldn't" etc.

I even go so far as to say ALL of us "dissociate" to some degree or another. It's the "dis-order" that causes problems .. but even in my "extreme mood" swings I can experience problems. For example, "part" of me is still really angry with some things my folks did - and while I don't "dissociate" in the clinical sense, I definitely "re-live" the emotion of the offense as if it's happening "in the now" even if it isn't. I had a conversation with my sister the other night and she definitely felt the force of my "emotion" even if in the normal light of day, most of me doesn't care about the past. I leave it there. Might be simply "holding a grudge"? in my case? "Unforgiveness"? I don't know.

I say this more to "normalize" the experience .. in line with encouraging you to not be "scared" of a diagnosis. And it sounds like you've got an attentive T, which is GOOD! My man is definitely "complex" PTSD (from complex childhood traumas), and "dissociative" in the clinical sense because the other "parts" in him do all have their own voices, and sometimes can "take over" his behaviors. Though this has improved HUGELY over the past couple years cuz he's "communicating" with everyone (that we know of) inside himself. He's organizing his "internal system" so everyone feels safe and cooperative, even if they disagree.

But then again, I have "parts" that disagree .. I used to weigh well over 320 lbs, and have lost about 160 lbs. But "fat" me STILL has things to say, FOR SURE, about things I might believe about myself, or about decisions I might make. So there is a sense in which this phantom self carries a lot of weight (no pun intended) .. Some days are easier than others, and I can tell the "old/fat" me NO, but I have to be diligent about "preaching the truth to myself" every time that voice comes up.

I don't know if I've offered any help, but @shimmerz has a LOT of good posts here you might want to check out further.

And to @Cashew 's point - I don't personally process "functionality" as an indication of the absence of "dissociation" - I think they correlate, but they aren't mutually exlusive ideas. My man is "highly functional" even though he still definitely "dissociates" .. but his parts are (now) mainly "co-conscious" and this allows him to function more smoothly (which is better for HIM, if not also US) .. he observed to me recently that he doesn't "hear" his 2 "little" parts as often, but they still "pop up" mid-sentence or mid-conversation with us from time to time .. AND simultaneously with my man .. so what he might still experience as "parts" I experience as "my man" in his wholeness .. In OUR case, he LIKES the "mirror" of my perspective .. *shrug* My concern is that his switches are EASIER for him, not paintful as they used to be, not losing time (a whole afternoon spent in a kind of "daze" in a chair, not realizing hours have passed) or messing with his memory as they used to (such as, did I lock this door or not? I better turn around and go check the house .. and we're late to EVERYTHING because of it ;) )

Wishing you ALL the best, @Thehalflingninja !!

*hugs* if you accept! Sounds like you're taking GOOD steps to examine and ask the right questions. Please have patience with yourself. (*sigh*) We don't lose 160 lbs overnight. ;)

~WU

 

[Hope4Now]

I was a psychology major in college. I learned about DID and I've been so terrified of that diagnosis that I've hidden my symptoms like this from my various therapists. What I don't understand is the dual reality I seem to have when I have an episode like this. One part of me believes she is that age and acts accordingly. Another part of me, usually dominant me knows I'm really 26 and this is an episode but it's like being a passenger in a car instead of in the driver's seat. I can't seem to stop it. It's like I have no control. I get to watch but I can't apply the gas or brake. At times I can manage a suggestion that my younger self might follow, might not.

I haven't yet read this thread...just your original post. Having parts does not mean you have DID. Everyone has parts...most people just don't conceptualize it that way. Some people's parts are just more extreme. And some people's parts can completely take over and block memory, some people's can do what yours do and hijack executive function without eliminating memory of it, and some people's just influence behavior and belief and thinking to greater or lesser extents. There is extraordinary evidence that multiplicity of the personality is the NORM. The problems come when parts interfere with current life in various problematic ways, from flashbacks, to suicidal thinking, to addictions, to rageful outbursts, to feeling unworthy of good things...the whole gamut.

You might check out Richard Schwartz's work on Internal Family Systems therapy. Lots of good books. Very validating. Very non-pathologizing. Filled with hope for recovery. www.selfleadership.org

 

[Hope4Now]

"integration" is overrated

Integration used to be the goal. There is much disagreement about this now. A lot of current thinking among people who work with trauma survivors and do "parts" work is that the goal should be to create harmony and cooperation among the parts under the leadership of the core self (and everyone, no matter how profoundly traumatized or how early, has a core self). The more extreme parts can, with help of therapy, unburden their beliefs and hurts, and take on their natural jobs for the system under the leadership of the core self (and early on with the support of the therapist and other supportive loved ones).

 

[Hope4Now]

How does one KNOW they're "dissociating" in a NON "full-on-self-identifying-other" way? ie: functional "in a dissociated state"

I don't quite get what you're asking but I'll hazard this response. I have been in therapy for 2.5 years. I am just learning to recognize (sometimes) when I dissociate--mostly through becoming aware of things my body does, and increasingly recognizing thought patterns and emotions. Over time, I have learned to associate these with parts because the patterns are pretty recognizable. It is very difficult because when I am truly functional, I AM in a PART. I have lived my entire adult life in this "manager" part. I didn't believe this parts stuff for a long time, but it is real. And once you can calm down the part that is so afraid of it, it is extraordinarily helpful and healing to get to know your whole self!

I'm not 'functional' in whatever passes for 'normal/original personality'. I'm functional thanks to, and in, states of functioning born out of need to dissociate to extreme depths.

Yes, me too. As I said above. My work in therapy is focused on getting my functional part to give some space so I can get to know all my parts and learn how to take care of my whole self without having to dissociate. It is very hard work.

 

[Sideways]

Can I be the villain and suggest an element that we (including me) often like to skip past with C-Ptsd & DID...almost by definition, there's probably Borderline issues here...

I know. YUCK! But I have to say, it was the start of a new dawn the day I finally understood the difference between when I was dissociating into a different Alter, and when my behaviour was (uncontrollably) different because of my Borderline traits.

I hate 'being Borderline', but understanding it as well as my DID, I actually now have much better control of both. And they can be frighteningly similar.

Sorry to throw the 'B' word in, but it has actually really helped me get a foothold on my DID.

 

[Thehalflingninja]

I actually don't know a whole lot about borderline and the differences and similarities with DID and C-PTSD. Any info on that would be amazingly helpful. I was recently hospitalized and the doctors mentioned borderline but didn't explain.

 

[Sideways]

Borderline is too complex for lil ol' me to sum up, except to say that it has really negative connotations. It's worth reading up on, since some would argue that if you diagnostically qualify for C-Ptsd, then by definition you will also at least have Borderline 'traits'. A lot of the literature is written for people who know someone with Borderline, because we can be difficult to cope with. But stick with it. The fact is that however "difficult" a Borderline is behaving, it's usually a good indication of the level of suffering going on in the Borderline's mind.

The big differences that I notice are that when I have a dissociative switch to a different Alter, my memory changes, but my whole being also changes, from the music I listen to, to the way I drive my car. My mood also changes, which is a big deal. I have chronic depression and agoraphobia, but most of my alters don't have either of those. People often find that both physical and mental health conditions can literally (diagnostically) disappear when they switch. Now that I'm more in touch with my Alters, my consciousness isn't always majorly effected, which makes it harder to tell if that's what happened.

If it's a Borderline thing, it's more that I'm changing my behaviour. Smaller things like what interests me also change, and I seem like a different person, but I haven't dissociated. My memory can be impaired, but that's consistent with my depression. Unlike dissociating, Borderline changes don't effect my underlying mental health - I'm behaving happy, but if I do an internal check, it's just a front. I'm still depressed, and I'd still rather be alone!

Oddly, as you get to know yourself, dissociative switches can almost be preferable. More times than not, I can stop dissociating by getting myself grounded.

Borderline changes, on the other hand, are coping behaviours that you've learned your whole life. They have triggers & take over & you seem completely different to everyone and it can seem a lot like this must be an Alter. The frustration is, even though you know you're doing it, you can't stop yourself any more than you can stop breathing. You actually have to leave the situation to go back to being You.

The difference is important to how you cope with it, but it's not easy picking the two. I have a particular version of me that comes out around family, and I'm a different enough person that people who have seen me elsewhere will comment. But I know now that I don't have a "Family" Alter like I originally thought. It's really similar, and I do both at different times, by my changed behaviour around family is actually classic Borderline stuff, and no amount of grounding is gonna switch it off. I walk away from family emotionally exhausted- that doesn't really happen with my Alters, because they don't have to "put on" the happy face, they're just happy.

So I guess the easy way for me to tell what kind of change it was, is to just ask "am I tired"? Dissociating doesn't take me any effort or energy at all. The Borderline stuff though, that's exhausting!

 

[Sandstone]

I'm not sure this is true.

with C-Ptsd & DID...almost by definition, there's probably Borderline issues here...

From personal experience, I'm diagnosed with CPTSD, and have been tested for Borderline. In that test I scored partially on one trait for Borderline, so came nowhere near a diagnosis. If you like academic papers, then
Distinguishing PTSD, Complex PTSD, and Borderline Personality Disorder: A latent class analysis
http://www.ejpt.net/index.php/ejpt/article/view/25097 or http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4165723/ says

"Despite .. high rates of comorbidity, the key clinical features of Complex PTSD and BPD differ and lead to different treatment implications, ....Complex PTSD includes PTSD symptoms and, accordingly, treatment highlights the amelioration of the trauma memory as a key goal ... In contrast, the key impairing features of BPD are self-injurious and suicidal behaviors, and treatment activities focus on the resolution of these behaviors
...
In Complex PTSD, as proposed in ICD-11, the fear of abandonment is not a requirement of the disorder, self-identify is consistently negative rather than shifting and relational disturbances highlight chronic avoidance of relationships rather than sustained chaotic engagement....
While emotion regulation difficulties are central to both Complex PTSD and BPD, their expression is quite different. In Complex PTSD they predominantly include emotional sensitivity, reactive anger and poor coping responses (e.g., use of alcohol and substances). In BPD, some of the preceding may be observed, but the criteria, perhaps the defining characteristics of the disorder, include suicide attempts and gestures as well as self-injurious behaviors"

 

[Sideways]

I'm not sure this is true.

I agree totally. Dissociation, as far as I can figure, is fundamentally a cognitive condition arising often out of trauma. Borderline is a personality condition, different Axis, different diagnosis.

It's helpful, having both, that we're getting to know the 2 a lot better. My experience personally is that they have a lot in common, but they're fundamentally quite different.

Having said that, some people will labour the point. As far as we know physiologically about the human brain, dissociation is learned from trauma, but only during the brain's developmental phase. For whatever reason, and as a completely seperate issue, studies into Borderline show a strong link (around 80% and up if I'm remembering right) with chronic childhood abuse of some kind...and obviously those unlucky souls have also been set up to develop both C-Ptsd and DID. Same chronic trauma cause, but 3 totally different (but causally linked) conditions.

So the 2 are different, but often co-morbid and (sadly) causatively linked. It's a bit like saying that someone with extreme OCD is also likely to have depression...you meet someone with OCD in its extreme form and it would be hard for them to not be depressed, so much so that the symptoms they experience may also come to overlap both conditions diagnostically.

Like I went on to say in that post, Borderline is, no matter how much I hate it, frequently co-morbid with C-Ptsd, and oftentimes is disgnosed first. If, like me, you're one of those people experiencing both, the symptoms can be confusingly similar, and learning to differentiate between them has been helpful to me, particularly in managing my DID. Understanding the difference has actually been pivotal for my coping with DID in particular.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that if you have C-Ptsd or DID then your diagnosis as Borderline is a sure thing...I just know that Borderline is relevant to many people with those 2 conditions, and the conversation was just to highlight that Borderline is very relevant to a lot of us, similarities between Alters and Borderline behaviours can be scary-similar,but the stigma attached ("Manipulative B..... Syndrome" as they call it) is preventing us from including it in some discussions where it seems relevant.

Sorry for the misunderstanding - I definitely didn't mean to imply we're all Borderline...But if you're reading this and you are 'Borderline', like me, it's okay, I'm adrift in the same ugly ocean:)

 

[WhisperingUnicorn]

I am on this site as a "supporter" but have been realizing I have some of my own issues that need a bit of a "deep dive" .. if nothing else because BEING better, I can LOVE my man better! And I score higher on the "dissociative" scale than "normal" even though I'm nowhere near a diagnosis level myself (at least that we can so far discern). HOWEVER, with as much as I believe EVERYONE has "parts" to some measure, I am only really beginning to understand my own, and the above comments about "Borderline" make me wonder if this would be a worthwhile investigative journey for me, too .. Thanks for the links!

~WU