Childhood What Is Child Abuse?

[mary1979]

*sexual abuse.

Well I'm commited now aren't I? Stupid phone.

So many years ago I read an article about family practices, both historically and I believe in some cases in the present, somewhere in the Maldives.

It was customary for the men in a family, be it brothers or fathers, to teach their female relatives or initiate them if you will, into sex.
It would start around the onset of puberty and continue until the female met her suitor.

It didn't seem to affect these women in any way developmentally which left me feeling that my own trauma could have been avoided if my own culture viewed things differently.

Now I'm not justifying anything, let me be clear.

But this article helped me reach an interesting conclusion of my own.

Most of my symptoms revolve not around the abuse itself, but around the manipulation, grooming and self protection stuff that my father did.

Around secrecy, protecting my family, what was wrong or right, what I deserved, and how I use those skills in my interaction with people as an adult.

This has left me wondering, if I were in a different society, in a different time, where there would have been no need for my father to twist my mind in order to keep his filthy secret, would I be not damaged???


I guess ill never know the answer to that, but is it also alike our grandparents? Who believed that corporal punishment made them who they are, since it was the done thing in those times? And maybe some kids today do need a swift kick in the pants? And we over think everything too much today?


I apologise in advance for any offence taken by this, it is just rumination and not entirely what I believe.

Ive never even so much as smacked my own kids in 20 years as a mum, and will do anything to avoid even raising my voice.
And they've turned out ok...

 

[Lucycat]

It didn't seem to affect these women in any way developmentally which left me feeling that my own trauma could have been avoided if my own culture viewed things differently.

I think this is very interesting and in no way offensive.

I can see that all types of abuse are culturally specific. In Scotland it is illegal to smack a child. In other countries it is normal practice and encouraged as a means of discipline. I note it is something you haven't done. I don't have children but would not smack them if I did. I was smacked myself as a child.

The idea of 'initiating' girls is curious. Like -why only girls? It is clearly sexually motivated and a way of the males controlling the females. I am guessing part of this would be 'teaching' the girls how to give pleasure so that they can satisfy the men. But you say this starts at about puberty. In my case that is when sexual abuse stopped - not started.

I think from what you say this was normal practice - in which case there would be no secrecy to it, and therefore no shame or guilt. For me personally it was the toxic shame, I think that has caused me to suffer. It was a dirty little secret that I could not speak of or explain, question or discuss. To me that is perhaps what made it abuse. As I have said elsewhere there were other things I was 'forced' to do as a child - for example weeding the garden. However that does not trouble me - it was just doing what you were told even though you did not want to. Sexual abuse however was an invasion of privacy, physical as well as moral boundaries and a means of controlling me. I was powerless and helpless.

 

[mary1979]

Oh I agree, it would have to have been specifically for the males enjoyment, and only justified by the reasons I gave.

It just left me pondering cultural practices and my own experience of ours..

Thanks for reading with an open mind @Lucycat.

And yeah, spanking in some respects is illegal in Australia too, though I think we still have a way to go before it will be enforced effectively.

 

[digger]

I'm probably going to struggle to stay on this thread as this is stuff I tie myself in knots with a lot, but...

What I am asking is 'what makes it abusive?'.

When does a 'tickle' become a sexual assault?

I think with these, one of the things that needs to be taken into account is intent. As we're talking about child abuse specifically, I think if the intention of the act on the part of the adult was sexual in any way, then it is abuse. If you're tickling the child to try and induce some kind of sexual response in either the child or yourself, that is abusive.
I think where it becomes less clear sometimes, and what I see as a recurrent theme in some of these types of post...

threads asking 'was I abused?' or 'is this abuse?'

...is when it is another child involved rather than adult. That's when the lines get blurry for me sometimes, and so I can only imagine how difficult that is for those posting the question.

I can rationally say that, following my own reasons above, what happened to me at the hands of an adult was abusive, I still find it extremely difficult to apply the label, even though really that one should be kind of black and white.

Overt child abuse - when it is clear and there are physical injuries is fairly simple to define

I think this is an important factor in how my head works when trying to evaluate my own experiences. I have also experienced domestic violence and abuse as an adult. The emotional side of that I go round in circles with because it's not clear cut enough for me. The physical stuff, I'm almost grateful for, because punching me in the head, trying to strangle me, the overtly violent stuff, I can see clearly crossed a line.

For me, I think a lot of the confusion comes from it being hidden within, or behind, nurture and care. It's all too enmeshed to draw out the individual threads.

 

[digger]

the research tests done on baby monkeys.

There was a program aired in the UK a few months back that showed archive of these. It really brought some things home for me about why children might not recognise abuse because there need for comfort kind of outweighs it.

 

[Lucycat]

I think if the intention of the act on the part of the adult was sexual in any way, then it is abuse.

You are so right.The difficulty I have is that as a child I had no idea of motivation and believed that everything must be for my benefit.I trusted my parents to do the right thing for me. I had no concept that he was getting gratification even though it was visible to me.

It is with my adult head that I understand this was clearly abuse, but we don't go from child to adult in an instant. The process of morphing is incredibly confusing!

 

[digger]

Yes, absolutely, your perception of what happened changes with development I think. And does new levels of damage at each stage.

As a young child, clearly there was damage being done but I didn't have the understanding of it the ways I did as a teenager and then as an adult. I think the realisation and shock of what was done, looking back, is part of what makes it so hard to get past.

Thrown into that you also have to get your head round why you couldn't see it for what it was at the time, and to come to terms with all the different ways of coping you've used at different points.

 

[digger]

The difficulty I have is that as a child I had no idea of motivation

The question this raises then is how can children know when they are being abused? And I think there are often times when they simply can't make that assessment for themselves, either because developmentally they don't have the skills yet to do so, or because other things the abuser does blur the lines so much and make it impossible to work out until you are older and away from the abuse. Even then, you still hold that child view at the core of your understanding and that is a huge hurdle to overcome.

The objectivity needed to see abuse isn't available to a child caught up in it I don't think?

 

[Lucycat]

how can children know when they are being abused?

Which I guess is why so much reporting is historical. Also the means to work out what was going on was manipulated away by the shroud of secrecy. If we had all chatted in primary school about what our parents did to us at home, I would have soon learned that not all Daddies did the same thing to their little girls. Teachers would have helped me understand that it was wrong. But when you can't talk about it...

 

[digger]

Which I guess is why so much reporting is historical

That, and that facing up to the reality of abuse is just such a massive thing that I thing often it takes some kind of external catalyst to be able to do it, or attempt to do it, either through reporting or seeking therapy for it. It is 'easier' in many ways to keep up the facade that it didn't happen or it that it wasn't abuse - although in other ways of course it is not (easier).

 

[jaccat]

Reading along with interest. It's topical for me. My thoughts are still kind of jumbled.

As regards the question about when a child becomes aware- in my case I don't think I was aware anything was wrong until I started school. There was a lot of neglect in my case, among other things, which did become obvious when I got to watch other kids with their parents. But it's not like at that point I figured I was being treated badly, just that there was something wrong with my family. I'm not sure, as a child, that I would ever have recognised any of it as abuse because it was what I knew.

It helps for me to look at it in terms of transactional analysis (I blame my T-she's big on it). But it's like there's still a split in my head where I know, as an adult, that what happened was wrong, but there's another part of me that still believes it was normal, or at least not a big deal. That's the same part of me that hates herself and thinks she's worthless, that part is the child in me. Not attempting to take it off topic, but as I don't remember how I felt as a child that bit of me gives me insight into how I viewed the world back then.

In my case what made it abusive was the severity of the neglect. But, in reference to your last question regarding neglect, it had it's bonuses. I grew up kind of wild, but that extra freedom allowed me to experience the world in a much more personal way than my peers, who were pulled indoors every time it rained. However, I was lucky if my family remembered I existed most days.

I'm only speaking regarding the neglect as it's what I know most about. I guess there's always going to be grey areas where you get parents who just aren't capable, no matter how hard they try. To me I think that's where it would be a question of intent.

 

[hodge]

I kind of always bought into my mother's accusations that I was a bad daughter because I wasn't what she wanted me to be. I knew I didn't like how she treated me. On some level I felt it was wrong, but didn't really have much external confirmation of that. It really wasn't until I went to univ and my suitemates would overhear my phone conversations with her and they would express their sympathy toward me that I really got confirmation that this really was a wrong situation. It was really an enormous thing for me to be validated by others. Still, it took me almost 20 more years to find my way, with God's tremendous help, out of being codependent with her. I still have mom nightmares, though I deal so much better with her now and do not let her get to me, at least not consciously. Usually, lol.