A Question About Anger And Anxiety

[Core]

I think emotional anger can be huge, have adverse reactions and bring physical reactions

I agree with this too - I feel like blowing up over the smallest things now, but what makes me most furious and raging is thinking of the rape victims I know/have known, how rapists has ruined some of their lives. The anger is extreme, and though I'd never harm anyone, I actually do feel like I want to harm the rapists when I get angry enough.

 

[Abstract]

Hmmm... I will have to look a few things up to check the accuracy of what I think.

Firstly about anger and its role: How I understand it is that all anger has a similar role. Yes the extent and quality of it can be extremely different but all anger is a response that is supposed to initiate defence. That could be the defence of the heritage building, the defence of ones parking space that someone just took or the defence of ones life. Or it can of course be displaced anger that isn't about anything in the present at all and is either about the past or a response to the persons own internal baggage or distortions.

I also think that when it comes to defence there are many different types of responses that may happen and a lot of what determines which is used relates to habit, personality and the situation.

Its a bit off topic really but to demonstrate the general concept here is a link to Pete Walker 's Four F's: http://www.pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm

When it comes to what is more tolerable or not I think a lot of it probably comes down to personality type, history and triggers/vulnerabilities.

On a personal level I have had a total intolerance to anger. Initially I did not think I experienced it. Now I realise that I just internalised it, dissociated it away or acted it out in self harming behaviour. The feeling feels vaguely familiar. I too have experienced rage where I want to get out of my skin. I absolutely hate it.

I have had to do a lot of work to tolerate anger and use it more effectively. Both mine and others.

Faced by others anger in the past I would totally disintegrate. Same with my own. Now I use it as a reason to stop and think what I feel threatened about. Is it a real threat. Is it about something unrelated. Is it because some aspect of me is feeling under attack and why. It has helped me immeasurable with boundary setting. Dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT) skills helped lot with all of that.

I hate anxiety too and find it totally and utterly overwhelming but it doesn't frighten me like anger does.

On the topic of anger and power: I have read up how it sometimes becomes addictive as a response and therefore becomes the go-to reaction for someone.

My sister is like this and I have actually had an honest conversation with her about it after she had many years of therapy and had more insight. And she said very much what I had read. The rage gets an instant response. It feels powerful. That aspect of it is addictive. I think it is also followed by shame after for many.

So although I think people experience different emotions at different intensities I also think our interpretation or tolerance of that emotion also plays a big role. Feeling anxious may be interpreted as weakness and rage as strength or not.

 

[The Albatross]

My response conscious choice, having received a body reaction adrenaline shot that comes from hypersensitivity to fight/flight/flee/freeze/faint is... yes... a question of the most beneficial and generally satisfying perspective.

You can, if you choose, learn to pause and select your most beneficial reaction. It is not perfect but it most often "best serves" if you are able to pause before defaulting to the base/gut reaction. That has been my personal experience, and it is working for me, so I'm rolling with it.

 

[Abstract]

I agree with this albatross. Healthy behaviour depends on us choosing an appropriate and helpful response. Fight, freeze, flight and appeasing behaviour all have a place and time and having healthy relationships depends on us using them in that way. Its when we get stuck in one type, use a response that is not appropriate or react about the past not the present that it sabotages our lives. Easier said than done of course...

 

[The Albatross]

Abstract, you have mentioned a key point... pausing and filtering your "feeling/response" against your reality. Is what I am feeling proportional to what is happening, right here right now? Is this a threat, an indignation, a frustration... I try to narrow the field down to the most appropriate word I can find to most accurately reflect, within the context of each present moment in the present, what I am getting a reaction to.

Personally, I can safely say that I may be sad/annoyed/discouraged by a decision to make a historical land mark a parking lot. Okay, maybe "angry" but it would not be a destructive (to myself or my relationships) sort of angry. Just like there's stress in all living, some destructive and some not... there is some destructive and some not "angry". I focused on the destructive aspect. Hashi did not.

Abstract, one of the most beneficial aspects of Alcoholics Anonymous was their take on out of balance instincts. Hyper/skewed instincts. It is discussed in step work not generally in open meetings.

It is more a mentored thing than a book thing but here are some references:
"Step 4 "Fear Less Inventory" step four: "creation gave us instincts for a purpose. Without them we wouldn't be complete human beings." First sentences in the twelve and twelve. Natural instincts hardwired into our consciousness, our brain. We have five senses, hardwired to provide instant information. Without these hardwired instincts, we would not be human beings. And for whatever reason, when our instincts are out of balance, our desires for something or someone, probably imbalanced because they do not fit societies codes and morals… The fearless moral inventory highlights where we may be out of step with common codes of behaviour which have been established for generations…

"AA Daily Reflection: AN INSIDE LOOK We want to find exactly how, when, and where our natural desires have warped us. We wish to look squarely at the unhappiness this has caused others and ourselves. By discovering what our emotional deformities are, we can move toward their correction TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p.43"

"Our 12 step book says that all human beings have 3 basic instincts- social, security and sex. All these instincts are God given for our survival and well being. When any of these instincts become abnormal, it becomes defective and a defect in character."

I had no problem understanding and tackling the idea that my disproportionate responses to stress, frustration, fear, anxiety, grief, or anger were my own responsibility and accepting that my hypersensitivity (thought I did not know it was named PTSD at the time) was out of balance and that I needed a filter/coping system that would curb it and bring it to heel.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Mine are so entwined that I don't know where anxiety ends and anger begins. Am I lashing out because I'm anxious or am I truly angry? It's such a grey area.

 

[The Albatross]

Abstract google "pdf Alcoholics Anonymous Step 4 twelve and twelve" to be able to view the whole chapter. There is more but it is copyrighted if you're really interested.

 

[aka]

I find anger to be an emotion that I can handle and deal with easier then anxiety. The emotion of anger is relatively new to me seeing as I have been suppressing it for most of my life. So it makes it new and something different then my default state which is being anxious. When dealing with anger I usually know why or who I am angry at which allows me to process and deal with the emotion. With anxiety though I almost never know why I am anxious so I find it very difficult to deal with.

 

[BlackbirdSinging]

Then the "what if's start"...and then I loose control of my emotions and I lash out verbally inappropriately without thinking of the ramifications.

I hate the "what if's". I've spent too many hours isolating and "what iffing" myself into even more anxiety. And it's seemed like no matter how hard I tried to stop the harder the intrusive thoughts try to knock me over.

It is like walking around without any skin on and having all of your senses put on the highest volume possible. It does hurt and when it hits your brain, rationality leaves the building. At a certain point a level of control is gone, and personally I become reactive rather than proactive in my responses and interactions.

Thank you so much for saying what I've been trying to say for years. I'm in awe that other people go through this stuff too. I for a long time thought I was going crazy and that I was the only one. Because no one I know goes through this. Now that I've been diagnosed I can say no one else that I know has PTSD. That's the difference. And for many years I didn't know I had it either. It doesn't make the symptoms feel any better but to finally have a name for what I've been dealing with for years makes me feel so much more connected to other people who go through or have gone through it too.

Anxiety hurts a lot, physically, and I usually feel very weak from it. Often it makes me want to curl up in a ball in the corner of my bedroom.

I agree. I spent two days with my anxiety at a 12 on a scale of 1-10. And for two days after I was so totally exhausted I literally felt weak.

Anxiety makes me feel SO vulnerable and out of control.

Me too! And I HATE feeling or being vulnerable. That's something that is VERY hard for me to do.

I'm not very good at channeling anxiety... it is formless and shapeless for me... sometimes defying rational explanation or disputation. Much harder to channel into something more personally beneficial, satisfying or productive.

I agree with you too Albatross. Anxiety feels like an all consuming blob I can't wash off or redirect into anything positive.

 

[heidi]

I associate anger with adrenaline and horrible corrosive chemicals. I cannot process anger. I cannot reason with it. Nothing works. I would get rid of it before anxiety. Maybe I'm defining anger more broadly then others. My anger is basically on all the time and it feels like a real live chemical drip.

 

[Abstract]

Am I lashing out because I'm anxious or am I truly angry?

My first response to this is that when you lash out it is probably anger as anger is an outward action motivator and anxiety is more a get-out-of-here motivator but on second thought it is nowhere near that simple.

I don't lash out at all. As bad as I feel that is rarely an option for me. Its not that my feelings are not intense but rather that I have a long established habit of keeping things internal. But even looking at my husband (who does not have PTSD) I see a very different dynamic playing out.

I do think he lashes out from anxiety. I struggle to understand this so it is good for me to explore. I suspect it has to turn into anger when at the point of lashing out.

It seems to me that he is anxious about something (or just anxious) and then that becomes intolerable and he starts turning it into blame. It happens very quickly - almost instantaneously - but he then seems to turn that energy into blame energy and that is when it turns into anger and lashing out. Its like holding that anxiety is intolerable and it is much easier if something or someone else is responsible and so there is that shift (sometimes the leap astounds me) and it is placed on someone else and turns into aggression and I am guessing rage.

Maybe one of the reasons I hate anger so much is that it feels much more difficult to keep things internal. That it feels less under control in that way. I have what can only be described as long term phobia about hurting people which I am pretty much over now. Hurting myself was "right" but others should never be hurt. In that way anger feels less controllable for me.

I relate very much to the concept that anxiety feels like having no skin. That it is physically very painful. Its is an extremely distressing state to be in. Rage to me feels like I cant stay in my body. That I can't sit or stand or do anything. Like my brain is quivering.

 

[Abstract]

my anger seems to be linked to massive depression

Mdmax, I found this too and I think this is when anger is not processed properly. I have managed to help my depressive symptoms a lot by understanding and being less anti anger and processing differently or dealing with it with radical acceptance. I do think there is truth in the concept of depression partially being anger internalised.

I once savagely attacked a stranger in the street who deliberately touched me inappropriately. I could have ended up in prison, which terrified me afterwards. Inside, I'm at risk of turning that violence against myself.

Hashi, This sounds very frightening. It sounds like you were consumed with rage.

Looking at it slightly differently I know this could have landed you in trouble but if you think about it your actions where extremely "normal" and proactive considering your past. He physically assaulted you. I understand that the rage you felt was extreme, all consuming and terrifying and that you thought you would kill him, but remember that you didn't. I hope that does not seem like I am invalidating your feelings about this. I have heard you discuss it before and can hear that it disturbed you and distressed you greatly. I think its worthwhile realising that even at that point you were actually in control as you stopped. And now you have more awareness and that changes everything.

I need to find a way to bring the two closer together.

This has been the case for me. I separated things to an extraordinary degree and recovery or control in my life has meant being more connected and less compartmentalised.

Fight energy doesn't lead you to improve things

I used to think this and it was DBT that really helped me with it. There are others on here that would agree with what you said here (including Anthony) but for me my life has changed as a result of me seeing anger differently. To see anger as a sign that I feel transgressed or am being transgressed. Or that there is a trigger there of sorts.

By accepting anger as having a place in my life and use I find I can deal with it better. I think it is a little like the concept of pushing something away and t intensifying rather that dissipating. I don't relate to what others say about anger making them feel powerful as I for me anger feels less containable and I like being in control of myself rather than others. But I do think anger can be an important sign post and when it isn't rage it can be used to fuel change. It has for me anyway.

Scale of equality (strength) between anxiety and anger for me.

Panic attack = Rage
anxious = angry
nervous = miffed

I think this could be a useful reference point for many Barberian. I like it. For me there is a place just under panic attack that I inhabit a lot.