Abusing My Dog

[ms spock]

To stop the behavior, I would not have an animal in my home under any circumstance unless or until I received treatment enough to be stable and low risk for indulging in an abusive behavior.

I think that this is wise advice. It is wise so you take care of both your dog and yourself. Is there somewhere you can place you dog immediately?

 

[ms spock]

I know giving up the dog will be hard, but it's better than jail for you, or the dog being hurt. A lot of people get overwhelmed by dogs. I've volunteered at shelters and many people turn dogs in to humane society shelters because they just couldn't care for the dog anymore for one reason or another. Sometimes people get down on them, but I think they are very brave people for being willing to admit and face the fact that they can't care for the dog anymore due to whatever reason - moving, health problems, etc. The reasons run the gamut.

It is wise for a person to surrender a dog rather than keep it in an inappropriate situation.

Most people don't hurt their dog,

I would contest that strongly. Animal abuse is a widespread activity and it happens a hell of a lot in families with domestic violence. I have heard a lot of people talking about animal abuse by parent's over the last 30 years of being around survivor communities.

but if you are used to seeing someone lash out at you, then it makes some sense this is the way you learned to handle anger. Don't lose hope. Bi-polar or not, once you work through the underlying trauma, things will likely improve quite a bit! My therapist said she has worked with people who hurt other people, got into physical fights, and saw them able to turn their lives around and not get into fights anymore once they had enough tools under their belt, and once their trauma was processed and integrated.

It is good to work out where the behaviour is coming from so as to be able to plan for change.

@Justmehere it is practical and solid to offer hope from healing in this type of situation. It can happen. I also have seen people turn their lives right around.

 

[ms spock]

Animal "abuse" is often a serious indicator and largely not indicative of the said animal. In all seriousness, a stuffed toy is also soft, cuddly and can handle a thrashing.

Animal abuse is very common in families with domestic violence and child sexual abuse. I really can't believe people are not aware of this. It is reported in the literature. If you listen to people's stories of domestic violence and child sexual abuse it is often there. I am pretty amazed that people are not aware of this.

A stuffed toy is an excellent idea.

 

[ms spock]

I am really concerned for you at the moment. I think that you should seek immediate help and not do something you will later regret. Can you go somewhere safe where you are unlikely to harm yourself or others. A hospital, friend or a local police station?

Taking yourself somewhere safe is really important. Going to hospital would be a very good idea. A friend or a local police station are two really good ideas.

I am so glad that you have reached out about this. It is sometimes really hard to ask for help, especially when you are admitting to something that might result in an adverse reaction. I can tell that you don't really want to hurt your dog as you are trying to seek help. You will find that people are more willing to help you if you don't do any harm to others, including animals.

I think this is an important insight.

Anyone can lie by being silent and no one knows. To talk about doing something that you are ashamed of to try and get help is very, very brave. It needs to happen more and more, so we can participate in intergenerational social change.

 

[ms spock]

Hi Andi... welcome back to the forum.

Nice to see that personal connection.

I re-read your introduction post. Is your current doctor a trauma specialist, and do they know your full history? You might be bi-polar, you might not; but what really sticks out to me in your post is that you do not feel like you are being heard by your doctor regarding your history of abuse.

Hearing the person and addressing their issues and concerns. Making someone feel heard means they are much more likely to listen to you.

You wrote about Cindy, your cat, and your Shiba, and your lizards. You wrote about wanting to be a vet. I know it took massive courage to post here about what is happening to you right now. Remember that the suffering is the illness; it is not who you are.

Doing background research on who the person is and what their life goals are is really important. Remember how many times it has alienated us/pissed us off/made us feel invisible when someone dealt with the illness or the action rather than who we are? Did it help us change? Did being shamed and judged help you to change and become a better person!?

You must be at a very low point if you are taking your anger out on your dog. So it's important that you find a solution to get your treatment back on track.

Empathy and a plan with acknowledgement - this can lead to actual change. Very different from venting. It makes a difference, venting often does not.

If your current therapist is not someone who works with trauma, I think you need to search for someone who is. PM me if you want help with that.

After connection, respect, calling it as it is in a supportive and caring way an actual practical offer of support. This can actually work. This can make a difference. With hard work on the part of the person this ends abuse.

Don't get fixated on whether or not you have a bi-polar diagnosis. You are in crisis regardless. Something you can say to your current doctor: "It is hard for me that you do not validate my abuse history. I think I have problems in my daily life stemming from that and need real help with those problems. Are you willing to work with me on those?" Write it down on a card if you need to.

Problem solving with practical application. How to do it if doing that is too hard. Breaking down the steps to get where you want. This type of thing is achievable!

Don't take it out on your dog. You don't want to be doing that. Remember, she hasn't done anything to hurt you. The very next time you feel an impulse to lash out, walk away and count backwards from 100 with a big breath in-between each number. Don't go back to the dog until you are calm again.

How to manage the actual biggest problem after addressing the others. This is really good stuff in my opinion.

If caring for a dog is too much pressure, you should give her to a friend to keep or give her to the shelter.

And an exit strategy as well that is compassionate but honest.

Thinking of you. You've survived a lot; you can survive this, and you can heal. You need trauma therapy with a doctor you can trust. If your thoughts of suicide persist, given your history, I would strongly, strongly suggest you go to the hospital.

Practical advice without judgement.

I mean all of this with compassion: I hope it has helped in some way.

Real and honest - that is what I like to see. This is really much more likely to get actual change rather than raining condemnation on someone who has been brave to be honest about what they are doing to their dog. And notice that @joeylittle didn't close it down with judgement or condemnation another person might ask @joeylittle for some assistance in the future because of this response which might actually end another animal from being abused. That is what we want? Isn't it? To stop abuse? Or do we want to judge and feel better than?

 

[ms spock]

The bottom line is that compulsively indulging/compensating/projecting mental/emotional stuff onto a living thing and then abusing it... knowing it is wrong... is untreated mental illness.

With the utmost respect Alba. Way too harsh for someone who has admitted what they are doing and wants to change. Appropriate for an intervention for a member who is abusing their dog/anima/child/partner and is in denial and just keeps doing it.

 

[ms spock]

I'm not sure if I'm more disturbed that you beat the crap out of your dog or that you're getting such complacent responses.

Your way is not the only way Solara. How is getting someone to give up their dog and go to hospital or working out a plan to manage the situation complacent. You come across as enjoying shaming and pointing out to people how wrong they are. I dont' find it helpful. What the shame is, is that you really do have some excellent and insightful things to say and that gets lost in your unfortunate interpersonal style.

Solara some times being direct and ripping strips of people is as abusive as beating up a dog. Food for thought. You dish it out and wonder why people don't listen to you. A lot of what you say is really salient. But the way you say it comes across as pretty abusive at times.

Sorry, but no, I don't give you "props" for posting. You're a dog beater, plain and simple. Give your dog up NOW. Do you realize that dogs can develop PTSD like symptoms?

Over emotional and punishing towards someone who is wanting to change their behaviour. This is not helpful in my opinion. Coming across as being attacking and coming across as being emotionally abusive is not helpful. It might let you vent and work out some aggravation and your own issues, but that is very similar to someone taking out stuff on their dog. Abuse in whatever form is not acceptable.

If your dog could speak and came on here and posted that her sufferer was beating her (as other supporters do) then everyone would have more than a few choice words about how PTSD does not make someone physically abusive. So, please throw that excuse out the window. You have a CHOICE as to whether or not you beat your dog, and you are choosing to beat her rather than learn how to manage your anger in acceptable ways.

And people have a choice on how they interact with people online. People have a choice on how the address other people's sensitive areas. And of the dog came online and was smart enough to type I would advise the dog to get therapy and leave as well. But the dog can't do that so it is even more important to support the person who is hitting their dog and not become self indulgent and attack people BECAUSE the dog is dependent on the person who is abusing the dog. So self indulgent attacking online might relieve something inside you @Solara but it certainly doesn't help the dog, which is what you want to do?

Lets just say that if I could identify you then I would report you to the humane society, the police, and any other governing body that could help your poor dog. She deserves better.

Great *roles eyes* Shaming, patronising, projecting your control and powerlessness issues on the the poster by threatening the big people will come and punish them and they should be taught a lesson. When you were treated this way as a child did it ever help you? So you feel better, you have vented and dumped your stuff. So what if the scenario becomes because the poster has been rained down upon they don't return and thus the dog doesn't get the respite s/he needs? Well again that doesn't help the dog. It doesn't help anyone else looking for ideas on how to stop hurting people around them. I don't think that this is helpful. Shutting down conversations where people are being honest and seeking helpful is not helpful on a multiple amount of levels.

Are people not being harsh because the OP is female? If a guy came on here and posted about beating his dog, I don't think we'd have the same sort of responses. Yeah, this leads back to my personal issues with females not being considered as monsters in society when they can be.... Yes, my sexual abuser was female. I see these sort of responses all the time, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I think you are 99% right on the money with this one. Women get away with abuse all the time because no one wants to think that they do it. My approach is always to talk about supporting the person being honest about their behaviours to get help and assistance. I am sure, that I am unknowingly acting out and informed by gender roles in our society. Everyone is to some extent. But people have to be trained to unpack their gendered expectations and how they unconsciously act them out. You can shout at people and berate them for their lack of insight or you can bit by bit break it down and show them some of the insights that you have, and you have some really good insights to share @Solara.

And you are right about women getting away with abuse because they are women. I wish you didn't have to see that again and again. There is massive collective denial in our society about women child rapists.

I think you are a brave, gutsy and intelligent woman @Solara, but I think you really need to work on your way of interacting with people. You are really good at cutting to the bone at times, but you are also a bit self indulgent in putting the boot in. If you could stop being so highly reactive at times, you could make such a difference to your community and culture surrounding you. You have some pretty important insights to share. You could also actually make some half decent friends. The thing is discussing anything with you pretty much ensures an attack, by you, if you don't agree by what is said. You could learn to agree to disagree instead of shooting arrows at people, unfortunately you are so intelligent you can often hit the odd bullseye, but you are not helping others and you are certainly not helping yourself. You come across as really liking to have a go. I notice that when you are having highly reactive time, people are not fair to you, and also have a go at you and you go off and I think that is unfair, but then you do it to other people, so I think that until you get on top of this one I don't think you will make much progress.

Your comments are not helpful to the poster who is dealing with the enormity of their dog abuse. Would you prefer people to keep silent about what they are doing? I don't think so you seem to want the whole hog - you are a big picture person who wants the intergenerational social change. Not many people can look the whole issues of child rapist women in the eye. I have immense respect for your intellectual abilities. I look forward to really talking to you once you engage your intellect and don't let your emotions run away with you.

 

[ms spock]

2. Since the dog cant type, the owner has come on to advocate.

And therefore this makes the self indulgent knee jerk response even more reprehensible. The dog needs to be immediately cared for and looked after that. This is not going to happen by attacking, putting down, judging and slagging off at the person who is abusing the dog, because if they go under then however it turns out it is not good for the dog. To save the dog = saving/supporting/assisting/caring for the person. It is not rocket science!

 

[Eleanor]

I actually try not to figure out gender for people posting. I don't know whether the OP is male or female. So that doesn't enter into it for me. Some people make it obvious, others not so much. On the other hand, people can present themselves as whatever they like in text. "On the internet, no one knows you're a dog."

AND my H who has c-PTSD or Structural Dissociation or whatever you want to call it has been verbally and emotionally abusive. I have crossed the line and been abusive. We both come from abusive and neglectful families. Our scripts for how to deal with stuff are very often BAD and abusive ones. We have to work hard to avoid the things that come naturally to us. Working with animals, particularly rescue animals who have been abused under the supervision of good healthy trainers has helped us each enormously in learning new habits and strategies. I only wish there were parent-trainers to work with. It is not JUST that the lasting harms that come from abuse and neglect hurt us individually, they set us up to hurt each other and our kids and pets. And when we come from families that teach us NO constructive response to guilt, and use our guilt to justify abusing us... well. It is an ugly catch-22 indeed.

And yes, Ms. Spock, animal abuse IS closely related to abusing people. Most don't start by abusing their kids or someone else's kids. They've mostly been abusing animals for a long time before. And they can't get better if they don't admit it. If it stays hidden it gets worse.

Violence can be addictive. And like all additions it likes to grow in the dark.

The fact is that I am very likely not even aware of the stuff I do that is most harmful to my marriage and children. Either due to dissociation (I'm more likely to do bad stuff when I'm not quite me) or because I don't know it is bad. I worry about this ALOT. I notice when I cross the lines. And I make plans to deal with whatever drove me across so as not to cross them again. We are not physically abusive, but this isn't nearly as comforting to me as I wish it was. There are way too many other ways to hurt someone, with injuries that can last longer.

Intention counts for an awful lot in my book.

And @Ed Norton, I would respectfully suggest that you are in fact a VERY good and compassionate person. That you are neither mean, nor stupid. Not by a long shot. And that it IS hard to be compassionate about someone causing harm to a dog. But that doesn't mean it is not worth cultivating that compassion. We all have feet of clay, my friend.

The old rule about talking about the behavior not the person applies to us when we talk about ourselves, as well as when we talk about other people.

 

[ms spock]

you're right if it were a male posting.

There is a difference with how we deal with gender, from the moment we are born the way the nurses touch and hold a baby is determined by the sex of the child. Extensive studies have been done.

I doubt that there would be so much coddling and excuses for animal torture.

Absolutely gender plays a roll, but I am not seeing coddling and excuses for animal torture. I am seeing suggestions for ways out of it. If we shut the person down then we lose our change to be compassionate humans, and most importantly we lose our change to ensure that the dog no longer continues to be abused.

You have a kind heart and soul @Ed Norton. I understand what it is to react and not respond.

I don't think that I can say more without being banned.

Actually Anthony models passionate disagreement with respect as being most permissible, I had one long passionate, but reasonable argument/debate with Anthony and he modelled best practice by disagreeing with me vehemently but not silencing my dissent, disagreement and dialogue about something, I can't remember what it was about now but I remember thinking at the time I could get banned for arguing with the owner of the forum, but I didn't and it gave me a courage to say more and speak my truth more. Though I often don't have time to flesh things out I am very busy in my life.

 

[ms spock]

That's because not many (or maybe even none) would post that they abuse their dogs.

I don't like it but not letting people ask for help means it doesn't change.

In reality, I have seen no response from the original poster.

Hey it was a really heavy thing to admit to, and they got caned, which people weren't helpful in doing. If people could have had their reactions elsewhere and not posted if it was too much for them or posted in a productive manner it would be better for the actual dog in the end.

I have asked that the thread be locked before we all start getting abusive towards one another.

And with silence we become complicit and we are letting it happen. With silence with take no action. With silence we give no support. With silence we let other people who abuse their animals suffer in silence. Worse still we let those animals suffer in silence because we don't want to look at the darker side of the human nature. You don't have to have PTSD to abuse your dog. It is very common in familes with domestic violence and child sexual abuse. This is the most important thread on the forum to me, because if we can't tease out these issues how can we ever share the peace and love that we get from managing out PTSD symptoms with others. How do we ever begin to really be part of intergenerational social change if we don't tease out the issues of the hard stuff?

Seriously the planet is dying and if we can't face up to things then we are part of the problems and not the solutions. I want to be part of the solutions. I am willing to put myself aside here and there and focus on someone to help them make a step in their journey. The pay offs for us all are huge. Dogs won't get abused and as a society we will change and grow.

Important stuff ... I feel passionate about it. Can you tell?

Whilst writing this response I am simultaneoudly dancing to Frank Sinatra with @Ed Norton on the chat room disco dancing floor. We can passionately disagree and still be courteous to others.

(I have friends that like Star Wars, despite George Lucas' inability to hire decent scriptwriters!)

 

[ms spock]

Get a punching bag, get in therapy, get in therapy a coupe of times a week, own your behavior, and turn the animal over to a shelter.

Excellent suggestions.

I appreciate, you reaching out to a community of your survivor PTSD peers. I appreciate, you being honest, and I hope you can get the much needed help you need.

Great positive reinforcement.