Other Agoraphobia -- exposure doesn't help

[Intrepid]

When I was 13, in 1974, I saw my brother's therapist. Get more involved was her advice. I didn't go back to see her because she acted like she was done, and that I was fixed. I tried her advice. It didn't work. It took 20 more years to find a therapy situation that worked at all.

I'm not as agoraphobic as I used to be. It gets better. But like others have mentioned, exposure in itself is not the answer. I've had to process that exposure, and what it brought up for me that made me so afraid.

But what is the underlying fear? Panic attacks in public would make me a little agoraphobic.

 

[Recovery4Me]

Depending on where you live and how cold it is...consider having your T. take walks with you around that area during your therapy. He can monitor your reactions and get off his duff (ahem...)I mean get some exercise as well. Did you smile at least?

Then you can add to our exercise thread and brag how you left your T wheezing as you raced around a track or something.:hug:

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Time for a new therapist.

Are you willing to throw your own healing away by defending him as the best?

 

[Kintsugi]

Tangentially...

I am concerned that your T is "the best," that you feel you "couldn't live without him," and that he is "like the father [you] never had."

I don't know anything, really, about agoraphobia. I just wanted to say that this sounded a bit like transference to me. I am wondering if your T knows all of these feelings you have about your relationship to him. If it is transference and he is so experienced, I imagine he would know how to cope with that in order to establish the healthiest possible client/professional relationship moving forward.

It is important that you maintain a clear head about who and what your T is (his role) if you expect to be well equipped by this T for exercises such as the ones you have been practicing for agoraphobia. I believe that being straighforward about the limits of your relationship and the expectations you have as a customer/client could be invaluable in your journey to progress and heal/manage.

I had truly no affection for my T in the five years I worked with her, just a ton of respect and a healthy dose of trust (eventually). My fondness came later, retrospectively. In the moment, I think too much fondness for her would have hurt my ability to argue with her, to hash things out, and to speak up for my needs whenever I felt they weren't being met in a session or along the course of our time together.

I'm not saying this is transference. I'm just giving you a heads up that this was a flag for me as a fellow sufferer.

 

[LifeCutShort]

Exposure therapy seems to be a contradiction, the more I see, the more I am ill. Time heals nothing. My agoraphobia progressively got worse due to exposure. I can't handle or cope with the emotional pain of triggers.

 

[anthony]

As stated above... exposure is a gradual process where the cognitive aspects must be met during the practical components. One without the other, achieves nothing but frustration, likely symptom increase, and dismayed from using the technique to effectively move past agoraphobic aspects. People do these things more often wrong, than right, due to incompetent information, therapists, coaches, information in general. There is a right way and a wrong way to use practical exposure therapy.

 

[Knak]

As stated above... exposure is a gradual process where the cognitive aspects must be met during the practica...

That is what happened to me in therapy while I underwent rejection in two major areas plus living with a narcissistic husband. It started before Thanksgiving and each holiday or event brings greater dread and skewed negative anticipation of the worst.

I started driving so dangerously and was continuously traumatized and depressed, I had to quit therapy and stayed in the house for a couple of months, which made it worse.

I've had agoraphobia since age ten but it is worse than ever now. I only feel safe outside with my husband and he is the one who can throw me into the deepest trauma with his gaslighting and desire to hurt me or just make me feel invisible or that he has to get away from me. I don't even acknowledge him to give him an opportunity to hurt me.

All my energy goes to protecting my self worth and I even lost that for a couple of weeks, wishing I was dead and losing the faith that brought me back to life after an earlier breakdown that kept me semi-psychotic for 12 years before I saw daylight.

I have been waiting for my life to end since I was ten but cannot willingly take steps, just have accidents or get addicted for decades. I don't drive because I get more dangerous each time I go out. I have no regard for safety. Today the gas pedal got stuck.

Today my doctor wrote on my chart I had a flat effect and that hurt me because I see it as rejection being perceived as being hollow. Reminders of my childhood. I thought I was okay is the kicker.

I am waiting for something to save me because I thought I was doing the right things, getting out and meeting people, taking on civic responsibilities until it crashed.

I am afraid of people. I would like to stay inside and never go out or do anything but when I see how happy others are or how people love each other I am crushed. I blame myself for not achieving it since it is my only goal at this point.

My fear and paranoia are exaggerated. I can't relax.

I don't think I can trust another therapist.

 

[scout86]

plus living with a narcissistic husband.

It's pretty hard to do that and work towards mental health. And, if he's a narcissist, HE isn't going to change. He will only help YOU when he sees something in it for him.

There are good therapists out there. I hope you can find one. You need to have someone on your side and you deserve to be happy.

 

[Knak]

It's pretty hard to do that and work towards mental health. And, if he's a narcissist, HE isn't going to...

My therapist was a woman who I identified with, being the same age and a Christian. She does EMDR and I went to her 7 years. I got a lot out at first and eliminated the repetitive thoughts of self condemnation, constantl recall of lifetime embarrassments, and was able to separate and recognize my qualities from my family's. I parted from my family before Christmas due to still being blamed and ostracized by them. That was one recent upsetting loss. The other was the way the church treated me and that's a long story.

I just don't think my therapist worked out all her own issues, e.g. she kept saying the purpose of my accidents could be to call attention to myself. I know it was because I didn't care what happens to me (wishing to die) and being spaced out by dissociation and ADD. My eyesight went bad and anxiety makes me work as fast as I can to make up for the constant mistakes because I can't concentrate, so I get overtired and have accidents.

Projects helps keep my mind off my situation and I am creative so get positive comments, but people want to use me for free. I could have charged thousands over the years for what I've done. I thought it would make them like me but they walk away, take the credit, or throw it away because it didn't cost them anything so it must not be worth anything. I am their free dumbbell.

My therapist would ask what's new and we end up talking about the trauma at home or church but not resolving it with EMDR. It made me worse remembering it because I blame myself. I kept telling her I hate talk therapy but I think she won't admit her lack of understanding, and it's a way to think she earned her pay.

On the positive, she gave me a safe place/word reinforced with EMDR to remember when I need to calm down (for 5 seconds), and to dump unresolved emotions until the next meeting, but we never got back to them. The topic of the EMDR changed so often I haven't completed any issue since the first year. Any EMDR about my husband never gets resolved because I go right back to it and he is toxic.

She says he's not going to live that much longer - he's 77 - but he will live longer than me and I'm 66. I don't think I could undergo the trauma of divorce and be independent or overcome depression enough to get out to make new friends, or bring in financial support, etc. I have never been independent.

I can't work for someone or keep regular hours because of anxiety and agoraphobia, nor have my own business because I can't ask for enough money for fear of rejection or complaints of personal work I spend too much time perfecting. ADD keeps me making stupid mistakes and I am afraid of belittling even though I have an IQ over 140 on some tests. I couldn't read textbooks starting in 4th grade but by absorption somehow got to grad school - in counseling no less. I never got over being told I'm a loser and don't recognize intimidation but take it as my fault. I don't even know when I'm being attacked until days or years later.

I had no help growing up, compliments, encouragement but was invariably told I was always wrong, fat, ugly and not wanted. I didn't know I could think until in my 40's. My ADD and dissociation keeps me from understanding what is going on around me. I was told I was spacey and that was my fault too. I learned to never defend myself because consequences were worse. I learned I do not deserve to be protected and was punished for asking for recognition I was being battered. My demented older sisters used me as an object to destroy and got off scot free due to parental guilt. My younger sisters only know I said nasty things to keep her away from me so take her side and abuse me now too. They DO NOT want to hear my side because they suffered the same violent upbringing I did and don't have compassion to spare.

I have been to countless therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, hospitalized 3 times, and never felt any of them cared or understood my position or showed compassion except this therapist, in spite of her shortcomings. Medications only made it worse. I've been put on over 30 kinds. From my counselling education I know they go into it because they have problems and it's a good way to keep from looking at themselves.

I wonder if this driving 90 miles an hour cutting in and out of traffic is going to keep getting worse. I am afraid to leave the house so am late for all appointments and afraid of rejection for being late so I speed at all costs, then speed to get home out of traffic and away from people. I can't stand slow traffic and do anything to get out of it. I am tight as a drum. I never go anywhere except doctor appointments. My husband wants to know where I am at all times and to be at home and I panic and obsess to get back.

I can't bear trying new therapists again who know less than I do or don't care enough to help. They are just people and are no more qualified than myself. At least I've studied my own conditions. I feel stuck and scared. In the past I've felt I needed to run away.

Just reviewing it makes me frozen. I wanted to see if it helps to write on this forum.

 

[scout86]

I wanted to see if it helps to write on this forum.

I hope it does!

I'm not quite sure what to say next! That sounds like a bad place to be. I saw my T today & we were talking about a friend of mine who shot himself. 2 years ago. The anniversary was this past week, which is why it came up. He was explaining how the brain can get itself caught in a cycle where all you can see is the bad and the negative. You basically chase your own tail forever, unable to see that that's what you're doing, unless something happens to shake that up. Therapy from the right therapist being one of those things.

For all of those things you can't do, my T would have you say that you can't do them YET. It may be true that you can't do them now. It may be true that doing them seems impossible. That doesn't mean you can't do them ever or that they really are impossible.

They are just people and are no more qualified than myself.

Even if you're as smart as they are, and as well trained as they are, sometimes you can benefit from an outside perspective. (Sounds like someone more organized than the last one would be good!)

On the matter of your husband not living much longer....... My ex died 5 years after the divorce. I had walked away, leaving him with most of what we owned. He remarried and his new wife inherited a lot that I'd worked hard for. Someone said to me once, "Do you ever think you should have just stuck it out? If you'd know then what you know now?" I HAVE thought about that. I wouldn't trade those 5 years of freedom for anything. (My T says that my ex sounds like he was a narcissist at best, possibly with "psychopathic tendencies".) Life's too short to spend any of it wishing for something instead of moving towards it.

Work on the driving! We want you around!! (But happy,)

 

[Knak]

thanks for the encouragement. I don't have a purpose. The pain is too deep so I don't know who I am. My husband doesn't allow me to be happy. I never laugh except sometimes at late night TV when I'm alone in bed.

I've wanted to leave since we got married 30 years ago but can't face being a panicking failure with no energy. I don't know how to get money to survive. I had a breakdown last week because I couldn't make myself go to the pharmacy to get my meds that I can't function without so I panicked. After several hours and crying I finally had to ask him to go,

He gaslights me and I can't face bringing on the torture of his lies, stealing, blaming me, ranting, and mocking just so I can leave to be alone and paranoid, depressed and withdrawn. I've starved myself from fear of asking others for help and almost killed my cats too afraid to ask someone to watch them for a week. I asked my mom to get my mail but too afraid to ask her to go in the house and give them water. I went from my mother defining me to him defining me.

He told me to leave and I said "no I want you to leave". He said then we'll sell the house and split it. I said okay. Then he said he was sorry and he loves me. I told him You don't love me. To him this is normal. We don't touch. We don't talk and he does not want me to be with him except at church to make him look good. His BD or Christmas gifts to me are from the dollar store and he laughs. He only wants to upset me and thinks being funny is making me look stupid.

Friends who knew him 20 years vouched for him as a father and leader and Bible teacher.

For the thousands of dollars I spend on counsellors/psychiatrists I don't get helpful advice or feedback. If they do, it's something I already know or it isn't accurate and doesn't help me anyway. Only once I was told that my parents were alcoholics and made me this way. One psychiatrist told my husband his criticism of every detail of my life was not his business and that I have very bad self esteem. That went over his head.

I guess it's hard to show compassion to someone who has a flat effect.

Usually they wait for me to talk and I don't know what to say outside of complaining. I told one that my mother said she never held me, even to feed me she propped a bottle on a stuffed toy, and the response was "that's what they did back then". Another's one's first response was, "did you thank her for telling you?" Oh yes, my whole lack of identity and self worth is because I was too thoughtless to thank her for not wanting me.

sorry for the negativity. that's all my head says. I know it's not me but I don't know who I am. but thanks for listening.

 

[Knak]

I hope it does!

I'm not quite sure what to say next! That sounds like a bad place to be. I saw my T to...

I feel much better knowing that someone made an effort to listen and encourage. Your avatar is so sweet I want to get a cute little stuffed cow to remind me of the love you extend.