All tied up in knots.

[Teasel]

I want to try and begun to pick some of this apart. And I think I want to seek some reassurance too over some of it. And I feel quite terribly fearful and guilty about seeking reassurance. And there is such a lot of emotion and fear connected to a lot of this. And a desire to recognise too the part I play in my situation. The things I do wrong / think wrongly..

And there is fear too about that as it so easily brings up the inner critic / self hatred / everything is my fault stuff.

Feels like all tied up in knots.

So I might go for a bit of a word vomit to start with as trying to get it all out in a way that makes sense, and from a rational, balanced point of view feels a bit beyond me.

So there's the stuff about feeling I am defective and just the most awful toxic person going. This is a core belief from childhood but I'm in that headspace often enough still.

There's arguments in my head that say I must be awful to have been treated so badly by so very many people and I recognise that comes from my past. But I have difficulty saying that's only from the past as I still have such difficulties in my life getting on with others. I have a hard time separating what's just from the past and what is still a problem that is caused by me.

So for eg I'm sure that my behaviour and ways of seeing things is sometimes quite wrong. And I can see that at least some of that must be because of how I grew up. But I think sometimes I muddle up knowing what shaped the way I am with being an excuse for how I am. And I think that's wrong of me and I want to be accountable for myself and learn to do better.

Does that make sense? Does it seem to be on the right tracks?

 

[Friday]

There's arguments in my head that say I must be awful to have been treated so badly by so very many people and I recognise that comes from my past.

Which also says you’re basically a good person.

How’s that for a Catch22?

Because if the only justification that rings true for you is that a person must be awful to treat them badly? Meaning the only reason YOU would treat someone badly is if they’re awful? That speaks to your character. Not other people’s. Many people treat amazing, perfectly lovely people terribly. All you have to do is look in any mass grave. What did those children do to be gassed/shot/set on fire? Nothing. They were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and ran afoul of the wrong people. It doesn’t matter how smart, kind, funny, talented, strong, responsible, obedient, mischievous, delightful, or brave they were. Someone shot them and dumped them in a hole. Not because of who they were. Because that’s what the person with the gun decided to do. When people abuse children? It’s not because the children are bad. It’s not because the children are awful. It’s not because the children deserve to be abused. It’s because the person abusing them decided to do it.

There has to be a bank robber to rob a bank.
There has to be a rapist to rape.
There has to be an abuser to abuse.

Those are their crimes. Not their victims crime. It’s not the banks fault it was robbed, not the rape victims fault they were raped, not the child’s fault they were abused (or shot and dumped in a hole).

 

[Ronin]

and just the most awful toxic person going.

If you were, youd be pretty remarkable...

For totally different reasons than you are.

 

[Lionheart]

When people abuse children? It’s not because the children are bad. It’s not because the children are awful. It’s not because the children deserve to be abused. It’s because the person abusing them decided to do it.
...not the child’s fault they were abused.

I have to agree with Friday here, it is definitely not your fault. It was the perpetrators' choice to abuse that is to blame.

Please forgive me for saying, but I believe the cognitive distortion that comes into play here is emotional reasoning. The distorted thought goes a bit like this, "I feel bad therefore I must be bad." or "bad things happened to me, so I must've deserved it."

I recognize it because I have had a lot of trouble with it myself as a result of past abuse. I still struggle with it a little bit to this day but can recognize it and change it much faster now. I don't know if you see a therapist or counselor, but if you do perhaps they can help you to further counter emotional reasoning when it appears.

I wish you the best as you continue to heal,
Lion

 

[grit]

A child looks up to mom and dad. They seem so great, kick ass, even if that ass is ours and abuse, they are gods to the open and learning eyes of a child. Because you were learning how and who to be, you had no choice but to pick the hand that was given to you--- toxic parents. You identitied with them. And then you choose, of course this is all natural, people who would like a toxic person like your parents...and you are in perpetual motion keep on playing the part.
Occasionally, like a moment like this one, you get a strong glimpse of knowing that you are on perpetual mill of acting out of what was taught to you rather than what you are...it feels deeply good but unfamiliar because it is you hidden but yet not hidden.
You will never get rid of the toxic parents side, but you can enrich, nurture, biuldup the side that notice the toxic part is not fully of you.
It is not easy. Sometimes we wake up after divorce or Heath issue or pure motivation to know us and other times, we ignore or avoid or in denial because we built a lot on it in our lives.
I cannot tell where you are but one thing is clear, you know it is not fully you...

 

[Teasel]

Thanks all, I really appreciate the responses. I've got the feeling it might take a really looong time for me to pick this apart but that's ok.

Because if the only justification that rings true for you is that a person must be awful to treat them badly?

I don't think it is the only one unfortunately. I mean rationally I totally get that abuse of others is not ok, maybe especially of children, and when it comes to others I really have no problem in seeing that. Hell, when it comes to my CSA I have no problem thinking I didn't deserve it either. But that's only one aspect of this. I was blamed / scapegoated / ostracized by my family, neighbours, the people in our community, the kids at school, teachers. And not only when I was a kid. Shall have to come back to it i think, feeling bit blocked.

The distorted thought goes a bit like this, "I feel bad therefore I must be bad." or "bad things happened to me, so I must've deserved it."

Yeah i think so, it's just been so relentless, a whole life of never really fitting in.

So I've kind of been dropped by all my friends in the past few years too. Recently I keep having conversations in my head, trying to talk it out sonehow maybe, keep feeling it must be my fault / that there are understandable reasons / want to take responsibility for my part in that / not just go around blaming others / feel hurt / isolation has been scary to face / want to learn how to feel ok about myself and learn how to get on with others better / worry I've become strange for being on my own so much / for years I have been stuck in a painful situation and my mental health must have played a part in all this /

On one hand I feel hurt to the core that no-one seems to care and yet I don't want to just be bitter about it I want to fix things.

Uuurrgh, difficult. Doubt this is all of it but one step at a time.

 

[PreciousChild]

Hi @berlinda. I think I get what you're saying and that's been a big challenge for me too. The times I'm most concerned about letting past and current feelings get blended these days is when I get triggered by something my bf does. I try really hard to keep my genuine reaction to something he did separate from the feelings from my childhood it might trigger. For example, something came up that potentially could put a wrench in our weekend plans. It turned out that he never intended to let it interfere with plans we made weeks ago,, but he casually brought it up without letting me know that he had a plan B. I start to feel disrespected which triggers huge feelings from my childhood of feeling neglected and like I was worthless. So then I start to lose track of what I'm feeling about what he did and all the overwhelming feelings from my past. The first of which he can help resolve, the second of which he could never help resolve not if he tried his whole life, but they also get blended. I think it's completely unfair to burden a loved one with resolving the unresolveable. I did my best to let him know how I was feeling. I focused in on the specific trigger of him throwing a potential wrench in our plans without any acknowledgement of the problem it might pose. He readily agreed that he should have communicated the fact that protecting our plans was a priority. I think that was the extent of what he was accountable for. In the past, I might have persisted in my anger because of the way I was feeling, but if I still feel anger beyond what he could actually help resolve, then that is my contribution, and therefore I need to take responsibility for that. So after thanking him for helping resolve the matter, I switched gears and told him that the incident brought up feelings that go very deep and that I wanted to share my struggles with him to let him get to know me better and for me to gain clarity and perspective. After he reassured me that I am a priority for him, I relaxed a lot. And though the triggered feelings didn't disappear right away, I felt good enough to let the matter go. And I know that the experience of expressing my authentic feelings and getting support for them will help me recover even more quickly the next time and actually help me to heal.

I thought that might be an example of what you were talking about. But that's what I'm working on myself - to fit my emotional reactions to what is appropriate for what someone actually did and to take responsibility for any feelings beyond that.

 

[Teasel]

Thanks @PreciousChild yes, this sort of thing is absolutely part of the problems I am talking about. I'm better with it than I used to be but still got plenty to learn I reckon.

I know that I used to react to current situations as if they were bigger and similar to my past without necessarily seeing that the current situation sort of triggered or brought up the emotions from the past. And I am much more able and can much more quickly understand when something has brought up feelings from my past.

I have also learned to not act according to my emotional reactions much better and instead to wait till I've calmed down and can see things more clearly too.

And like you I want to take responsibility for my part in such situations, absolutely

I think there's a lot more to this but this is definitely a part of it thanks. :)

 

[Teasel]

Just read a review of the film Judy about Judy Garland and this bit sort of touches on what I'm trying to talk about too.

Unfortunately, no one understands the trauma Judy endured in her childhood years, and many of her present-day handlers and casual observers write her off as merely a has-been diva.

People not knowing what I've been through and thinking I'm *pick a negative judgement*

But also having grown up with that there is a huge tendency for me to think that's what people are thinking when it might not be true.

The NHS have put me on several courses of group therapy in the past year or two. And in each of them the others on the course say that normal people look at them like they are mad or stupid or whatever and I relate to that too.

Part of what's had me so low lately is being so hurt at losing my friendships and just running out of hope that I can manage to have any again. Sort of thinking it's just beyond me to manage to have.



Is painful looking at this stuff, and fearful too but better than continuing to avoid it?

 

[PreciousChild]

It's painful, yes. I think one of the hardest things to do is to take responsibility for shit that wasn't even my fault. There were periods in my life when I would react in angry, crazy ways, and I know people were shocked, afraid, and weirded out. Ironically, what I *needed* was affirmation and love in order to heal, and yet because of my trauma, what I was constantly getting was a negative feed-back loop. At a certain point, I realized that despite not being the creator of my ptsd, who I am, all of it, was mine and I owned it. That itself is affirming because I was telling myself that I didn't need to be perfect to give myself love. And though it felt like such an injustice, I also saw that there was no other possibility than to accept full responsibility for all of my reactions, behaviors, and choices. But I've been able to do a lot because I took agency over my life.

 

[Teasel]

And this article expresses something about the fear I have of talking about stuff, here and anywhere really, not just letters, in fact writing stuff down is a heck of a lot easier for me than talking, and talking on the phone is a heck of a lot easier than face to face. One to one is just the worst. Panic, which leads to me not really being able to think let alone speak like an adult with any intelligence.

I'm really scared of revealing fatal flaws. And I get that is quite a lot to do with my past as rationally I can understand I'm not the most awful person on the planet. But yet that stuff from the past does still flavour how I see things to a large extent.

We've cross posted @PreciousChild :)

Yes, that's what I want to do too.

 

[PreciousChild]

And this article expresses something about the fear I have of talking about stuff, here and anywhere really, not just letters, in fact writing stuff down is a heck of a lot easier for me than talking, and talking on the phone is a heck of a lot easier than face to face. One to one is just the worst. Panic, which leads to me not really being able to think let alone speak like an adult with any intelligence.

I'm really scared of revealing fatal flaws. And I get that is quite a lot to do with my past as rationally I can understand I'm not the most awful person on the planet. But yet that stuff from the past does still flavour how I see things to a large extent.

We've cross posted @PreciousChild :)

Yes, that's what I want to do too.

Given your past, that's not a surprise. The fear and panic are real and can feel insurmountable. I'm middle-aged and have had many years to grow in doses. Whatever you can, however much you can all contributes to your growth. You seem to be really thoughtful and aware. I think that's more than half the battle. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this and it already sounds like you're having fruitful insights.