Am I Being A Prude, Or Overly Sensitive?

[Ronin]

They choose it because they are damaged psychologically, have low self esteem, or are stuck in dire financial straits.

I call nonsense on whole this train of thought. And promoting all of the stereotypes that just aren't helpful to sex workers of any gender, heck even to people just considering the work.
And actually, coming from an angle of experience of having worked in some areas of the field? There were so many people who darned well knew their boundaries, who knew darned well how to spot and deal with predators, who tl;dr had their shit well together. Enough to teach others self respect and dignity. Enough to know just how much what they do is worth to them, and what they just won't get into, because it's different kind of mess entirely.

So talk about 'low self esteem'. -No-.

 

[Dana1010]

The same goes for most jobs and most people

People become doctors and lawyers because they're damaged psychologically and have low self esteem?

@Kaia, I'm not laying blame on any of the people who do sex work. I know how men look at them, and if 50% of humanity have a point of view, that view is going to carry some weight in the world.

And promoting all of the stereotypes that just aren't helpful to sex workers of any gender, heck even to people just considering the work.

You keep dragging us back to hypotheticals while the real world is hammering you over the head. Right now in this world, sex workers are treated like shit, and the reason is rooted in evolutionary biology, not some mysterious societal "stereotype" that fell out of the sky. The very same men who denounce "stereotypes" and "closed mindedness" and "hypocrisy" about sex workers because it's a fashionable pose right now, would never date one or have anything to do with one outside the context of consumer and provider. Talk about hypocrisy!

 

[Ronin]

You keep dragging us back to hypotheticals while the real world is hammering you over the head. Right now in this world, sex workers are treated like shit, and the reason is rooted in evolutionary biology, not some mysterious societal "stereotype" that fell out of the sky. The very same men who denounce "stereotypes" and "closed mindedness" and "hypocrisy" about sex workers because it's a fashionable pose right now, would never date one or have anything to do with one outside the context of consumer and provider. Talk about hypocrisy!

It would be appreciated if you stopped with your gaslighting rhetorics.
What I said in my post was that out there, in the industry we're discussing, I've met multiple people that totally disprove your idea of how dependent and confused and without self awareness they are. And you reply with what precisely, entirely twisting what I've said and then derailing to your hypothetical men just to make a moral lecture point about hypocrisy?

 

[Dana1010]

@Kaia , I'm sorry if I offend you--gaslighting is not my intention. I'm sure many women who do sex work are smart and independent people, but the fact of the matter is they've put themselves between a bullet and a target. Also, the wonderful, open minded, mutant men who are miraculously devoid of the virgin/whore complex are the "hypothetical men." The men I'm talking about are the real ones--you can see them walking around every day and observe their behavior, not the "ooh, pick me, feminists!" phony sound bytes they issue.

 

[Eleanor]

It is a big world. It is a complicated and diverse place. There are Christians and Muslims who are sadistic animals. There are Christian and Muslims who are the soul of compassion and charity. There are mentally healthy sex workers and mentally unhealthy ones. What the relative populations of each group are is an important question. And it is not trivial how they treat others and are treated by them. I'm not sure painting everyone with a broad brush is really helpful to those being abused. And context makes a difference. India is way different than Denmark.

I would hope that the fans of Cytherea would step up and help her out - maybe start a GoFundMe site or something - since I'm not sure actors (of any sort) are eligible for disability insurance/pay, and she is likely to be out of commission for a while. I expect there are lots of guys who WOULD help if they had the means and a way to.

@Dana1010 you seem to be engaging in some pretty black and white thinking here... maybe there is more to the big picture than straightforward good and evil.

 

[ms spock]

Sexism is the part of the theoretical practice of the actual lived practices of rape and incest. If the sexism and sexist images etc were pulled apart and challenged then the rape and incest would not be allowed to occur, because once people understood what the implications and consequences of sexism were they wouldn't engage in it. One woman might or might not make choices about being in a sexist imagine and engaging in the discourse of sexism but the 1 in 6 women who are raped don't make that choice. Depending on the statistics of the research that you read 1 in 2, 1 in 3, I in 4 girls don't make those choices either yet they way they are viewed is certainly defined by the culture around them, and the 1 in 4, 1 in 6 or 1 in 8 boys - who so under report are not doing out of that objectification either. So it all matters. Every conversation about it, even this one on myptsd is important.

 

[Anarchy]

People become doctors and lawyers because they're damaged psychologically and have low self esteem?

Dana, there's nothing quite like completely mis representing a quite clear statement, is there?

Did doctors and lawyers grow the crops and raise the animals or catch the fish that were your dinner tonight?

Did doctors and lawyers cut the wood to make the table, or dig, shape and fire the clay for the plate you ate it off, or find, dig, smelt and shape the iron to make the tools you ate that food with?

Did doctors and lawyers transport the food to where you bought it and stack the shelves and man the check outs?

did doctors and lawyers drill the wells for the oil and gas, build and man the refineries, dig trenches and weld together the pipes for the pipelines that distributed the oil and gas that made the transport and your cooking of your dinner possible.

There are far more jobs in the world than doctor and lawyer - do the people who do those jobs, many of them involving long hours, physical discomfort and low pay - all suffer low self esteem?

probably some do, and amongst the doctors and lawyers that I know (I have a step father and step brother who are doctors, and a brother in law who's a lawyer - so I know plenty of each) some did indeed go into those fields because they lacked the self esteem to follow what they really wanted to do.

[DLMURL="https://www.myptsd.com/c/members/5084/"]@Kaia[/DLMURL], I'm not laying blame on any of the people who do sex work. I know how men look at them, and if 50% of humanity have a point of view, that view is going to carry some weight in the world.

Are you suggesting that all males can be aggregated together with a single viewpoint?

You keep dragging us back to hypotheticals while the real world is hammering you over the head.

As @Kaia has pointed out, you are gas lighting.

Right now in this world, sex workers are treated like shit,

Some, or all? and by whom? I'm male, and I don't treat sex workers like shit, they are people who do a particular line of work.

and the reason is rooted in evolutionary biology, not some mysterious societal "stereotype" that fell out of the sky.

are societal values not also rooted in evolutionary biology?

The very same men who denounce "stereotypes" and "closed mindedness" and "hypocrisy" about sex workers because it's a fashionable pose right now, would never date one or have anything to do with one outside the context of consumer and provider. Talk about hypocrisy!

Who is this individual that you are describing? would you like to introduce us to him?

 

[Ronin]

because once people understood what the implications and consequences of sexism were they wouldn't engage in it.

In agreement on the need of education, though I'm not really sure about this line. Choices... It's not really about not understanding. Who wants to view people a particular way, who wants to deal with people a particular way, won't change just because they're told it's wrong and reprehensible in this and that regard.

 

[Dana1010]

are societal values not also rooted in evolutionary biology?

There's nothing quite like completely misrepresenting a quite clear statement, is there? My whole point was that societal values are rooted in evolutionary biology. It's the perfect world theorists here arguing that they are arbitrary and can be changed by human choice.

Who is this individual that you are describing? would you like to introduce us to him?

Yeah, look in the mirror. Sorry, was that gaslighting? If you look at the women men marry, you will find that sex workers are as rare as the dodo bird among them. And even then, who knows what the story is? It's just not natural for men to want something that's been passed around like a joint. That description is as unpalatable to me as it is to you, and it took me years to come to terms with that reality. But if something is felt to be real, it's real in its consequences, so when when it comes to sex work, just don't step in that.

 

[ms spock]

There are male and female sexual predators that will never change that is for sure @Kaia but there are many people who view these things are "harmless" and just "different point of view" rather than part of a systemic patterning of behaviours that reproduce specific behaviours.

 

[Ed Norton]

@Dana1010 You should play the ball, not the players, just saying.

 

[Ronin]

There's nothing quite like completely misrepresenting a quite clear statement, is there? My whole point was that societal values are rooted in evolutionary biology. It's the perfect world theorists here arguing that they are arbitrary and can be changed by human choice.


Yeah, look in the mirror. Sorry, was that gaslighting? If you look at the women men marry, you will find that sex workers are as rare as the dodo bird among them. And even then, who knows what the story is? It's just not natural for men to want something that's been passed around like a joint. That description is as unpalatable to me as it is to you, and it took me years to come to terms with that reality. But if something is felt to be real, it's real in its consequences, so when when it comes to sex work, just don't step in that.

I'm trying to figure a response different than what I'd say in communities I socialize with more often, being 'bitch nigga what you talking about', but well, let me try. Even though that sentiment really sums my feelings on your argument in one line quite well.

You were called out. What you did is you just adopted a word and claim it's tactics used against you. In other words playing the victim and manipulating people into sympathies with you, which just won't fly. We've all here seen it all too often and it just isn't cool. (Nor is this here the first thread you do it in. But well, no use beating the old mare.)

Maybe it's you who needs the mirror here, and not as a figure of rhetorics. You still fail to accept responsibility for how you treat people. You won't even respond to perfectly well thought out, reasonable arguments of other people, especially not if they're contradicting what you believe to be reality. That just isn't cool. (And there's a difference between not being able to respond... which is just all well, and doing it deliberately on purpose just because contradicting views are inconvenient to you.)

What is the rest you're even talking about, though, aside of lacking parallels to drug use that aren't topical in any way, yet you seem to be somehow stuck on them. As I'm honestly lost there.