Another Sleep Medication Post

[Chava]

Lately Ambien triggers drinking episodes which are really bad for me. But somehow I can take Flexeril plus Benadryl and still lay half awake with weird racing thoughts for most of the night (I think I slept 2 hours last night).

I don't want to take anything SSRI or a med I need to take every night, but the sedative-hypnotics are not good for me. Neither are benzos. I already sent a message to my doctor so I'll see what she says. But I'm curious what has worked for others in the as-needed sleep prescription category that's not ambien or anti-depressant (not trazedone or remeron).

Or a couple more specific questions: has anyone used Rozerem? It looks like that is different than Ambien and Sonata. Is it hypnotic-drunk-like or does it just make you sleepy? Also, I take gabapentin through the day, but maybe could just put my doses together in the evening (if doctor okay with it). Does anyone on gabapentin just take more of it in the evening to help with sleep? Mostly falling asleep is really horrible for me...but some nights worse than others. So nothing I need to take every day.

I'm trying so hard to not drink and end up in ER all over again, but I'm really exhausted right now. I feel really horrible and it would be easy to just get my ambien refilled, yet that's a terrible idea. Dangerous. But I'm desperate for sleep!

 

[KuanYin]

Uy! I'm sorry you haven't been sleeping well. Lack of restful sleep can be excruciatingly frustrating. I only have experience with two of the meds you mentioned, Benadryl and Remeron. Benadryl didn't really work, especially if I didn't fall asleep within an hour of taking it. It seemed to have s really short window for when it could be effective. I took Remeron once back in college and it knocked me out for an entire day. I wanted sleep, not a coma. Have you ever tried Belsomra? Might be worth talking to your doc about it. I really hope you can get some relief soon!

 

[Chava]

Have you ever tried Belsomra

No, I haven't. Quick search suggests you shouldn't take it with addictive history (though I'd say the same thing about ambien). So I'm not sure about that one. But thank you @KuanYin ... I function really poorly without sleep and don't trust myself to make great decisions. So for now it feels like I'm damned if I take Ambien, damned if I don't. But I still wouldn't dare refill it.

 

[KuanYin]

I take Seroquel XR to help me sleep. I've taken both the regular and extended release (XR) versions, sometimes both together. The immediate release one was good for helping me fall asleep and the extended release helps keep me asleep. The one downside to the regular one is that it can cause a spike in appetite, which sucks if you're trying to fall asleep and suddenly have the urge to stuff your face hungry hungry hippo style. The plus side is I haven't noticed any withdrawal effects if I don't take it everyday or if I have decrease the dosage (which I will sometimes do if I know I have to be up and at 'em earlier than usual) I think technically it's an antipsychotic rather than an antidepressant or sleep med. Not sure how or if it would interact with any other meds you're currently taking.

 

[scout86]

@Chava , if I remember right, you haven't found CBT to be helpful, so maybe this link won't be either. I've mentioned elsewhere, my T isn't a huge fan of medication. For anything. He says our brains are capable of making all the chemicals they need......for anything. :confused: A few weeks ago, he sent me this link, kind of as an "I told you so!" I guess. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/09/upshot/the-evidence-points-to-a-better-way-to-fight-insomnia.html?emc=edit_tnt_20150608&nlid=62649015&tntemail0=y&abt=0002&abg=0&_r=0
I hope that works! I think it's the first time I've tried this.
We've spent what seems like a ridiculous amount of time talking about sleep. (I keep saying I sleep fine, at least 1 night out of 3, most of the time. He replies, sternly, that "That's not sleeping, that's being exhausted." But, we've picked apart the parts of "sleep" that are a problem and come up with work arounds that work fairly often. I still don't just "go to bed, fall asleep, and have 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.", but I'm sleeping better and feel better, with no drugs.

As far as actual drugs go, I've tried over the counter stuff and not had much luck. Tried Ambien. It worked. It was also scarey in a couple of ways. I also tried Lunesta and that I liked better than Ambien. Good luck! Going through the day fighting to stay awake, or laying in bed, fighting to go to sleep are no fun at all!

 

[KuanYin]

"Our brains are capable of making all of the chemicals they need ". Ummm I find that really confusing. My body isn't capable of doing that, which causes my depression in the first place and is, thusly, why I'm on meds. Is he coming from an idealized perspective? The squiggly face you used suggests you don't quite buy into what he's saying, but I could be misreading it. Inability to sleep, regardless of the cause, can really mess with a person's mental state. While I agree some behavioral changes could have some beneficial effect, it seems like said benefits would be most likely be seen in those whose body's/brains are in a healthier position to begin with. I read the article but it doesn't seem to me that the author really "gets it". This isn't meant as criticism, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Neverthesame]

I have been taking antihistamines for far too long. Yup I agree with you Chava, not good. My evening ritual consists of taking antihistamines then hours of sedated tossing and turning.

I can't take them myself, as they give me a super rapid heartbeat, but have you tried prazosin? It's a hypertension medication, used off label as a sleeping pill for chronic anxiety.

It is also reported by quite a few people, to actually stop the nightmares as well. It didn't do that for me, but that's me.

It is also non-narcotic, non-addictive, nor does your body adapt to it much. After a couple of weeks you and your doctor should be able to iron out a dosage that should just work consistently. Without having to raise the dose constantly.

I found it felt like, being tired, weak, wobbly and a little out of breath. The first couple times I took it, it whooped my ass, it was also a little scary. After a few days it mellowed out nicely. Except for my heart anyways.

Definitely didn't want a drink when I was on it. Didn't want anything other than to lay down in bed.

I wish I could take it. Might be an option for you.

 

[Chava]

Thanks @KuanYin ...don't you have to take something like an anti-psychotic daily, like the SSRIs? Or can those work "as needed"?

Thanks for the link too @scout86 ...I probably have all the chemicals I need, just too many of the "STAY AWAKE JUST IN CASE" chemicals. ?? It's not really a cognitive thing. I'm not thinking or worrying. I'm half asleep and half awake all night with just random half-dream things wandering through my head. My body just doesn't do rest easily. I'd like to not need meds, that is a goal (someday?) but this week I'm just trying to avoid the knock-out extreme of Ambien + liquor + swallowing shots of mouthwash. I could refill that prescription in five minutes. Also sounds like your therapy is just different than what I'm doing but glad if its helpful. I'm working more on basic safety, grounding, regulation stuff right now but it does help me feel "okay" about going to sleep (like finding what makes me feel comfortable and protected) but I'm not slowing down anyway.

@Neverthesame ...can that be taken as needed or is it daily? Anti-histamines barely work but I will do that again tonight if I don't hear back from my doctor (I should unless she's on vacation). I'm blown away that my muscle relaxants (flexeril) do nothing. They usually knock people on their ass. I always fight the drowsy feeling a bit but then have slept well on them. Now it's just a whole night of fighting. I got up a couple times and a couple other times tried to just stay in bed because I realized I had just been dreaming, so was on the edge of sleep...for most of the night. Partly hormonal too. Depending on pain meds needed through the day and other stuff, I really just need something I can take on nights I think I'll need it vs every night. Just afraid the options outside of sedative-hypnotic-benzo type meds are limited.

 

[scout86]

just too many of the "STAY AWAKE JUST IN CASE" chemicals. ??

I think that's entirely possible. And, with me, it gets to be a vicious cycle. "Worrying about not being able to sleep" is one of the best ways to guarantee that I won't sleep. The idea that there are some "parts" of your brain that really believe it's important, for safety reasons, that you stay awake is a pretty real thing, I think. My T has suggested that I "find a new job" for those "parts". Picture some eye rolling here. I know he has a point, but it's not all that easy. He really means that there are "parts" that think they have the job of staying awake so you're safe. He says you can't just "fire them" they need a job. So find them another job... (It's a work in progress.) Sometimes it actually helps me to get up and walk around the house so I can actually SEE that everything is ok. Anyway, it seems like this is a real problem, not an imaginary problem, and it probably needs to be addressed seriously, somehow.

I'm half asleep and half awake all night with just random half-dream things wandering through my head.

That's different than anything I've experienced. Normally I'm asleep or awake. Sometimes "asleep" isn't very deeply asleep, but it works. So I don't have much insight into this problem.

but I'm not slowing down anyway.

That problem I have! At least a lot of the time. Came up with a weird idea to work on it, that sometimes actually works. I had made the comment that it didn't seem like there WAS an "off" switch and that I'd be happy if I could just find some kind of dial to turn the energy level down. So, I'm imagining myself turning a dial "down" while laying in bed. This is hard, because I have trouble with visualization. It actually works fairly often though. Maybe because I get distracted enough trying to get the imaginary dial to do what I want it to do that I relax enough to sleep.

The squiggly face you used suggests you don't quite buy into what he's saying,

Oh, I believe him, it's more that this stuff isn't always as easy as he makes it sound. He KNOWS it's not that easy too, or we wouldn't be working together.

I imagine there are people where there is an actual physical problem that prevents their brain from functioning the way it's supposed to. From what I've read, the brain has an amazing ability to adapt, so there's a lot of things the brain can normally be trained or adapted to do. A lot of these sleep problems. I suspect, are things that we've more or less trained ourselves to do, at times and in situations where they actually served a purpose. It's just that the behavior has long exceeded and outlived what ever the purpose may have been.

@Chava , I hope you find a solution, and SOON. Lack of sleep definitely isn't fun and it makes dealing with anything else ever so much harder.

 

[Chava]

I hope you find a solution, and SOON.

Yes, me too. Maybe not a permanent one, but a soon one. :) Like I can't do a five-week online program right now because I'm in pain, should take more tramadol for cramps, but then I don't sleep unless I take ambien...and lately that triggers dangerous drinking episodes. So I want a solution TODAY. I'm not usually so impatient. I assume my doctor will respond by the end of the day. But I might actually stay with a friend tonight just to know I don't f*ck up and end up in ER again. My body really doesn't slow down. Slow thoughts, teddy bears, peaceful thoughts...doesn't matter. Worse with pain or pain meds or other stuff impacting what's going on in my body. Some of that will be better soon if I can just get through a few days. I do want an "as-needed" sleep med because I'm just sort of hanging on by threads right now.

 

[scout86]

My body really doesn't slow down.

Is there, or has there been, a place or a situation where you were relaxed, comfortable, and at peace? My T went through a bunch of ideas of things that I might be able to use to get myself in a situation where sleep was possible. HE closes his eyes and watches himself do a back flip into "sleep". He was a competitive diver when he was younger. I'm sure he's not making this up and I'm sure he can do it. For me???? Not at all helpful! What I DID realize, finally, is that if I actually get to sleep and then "have" to get up. (like it's morning and the alarm is going off) I'm comfortable, I don't WANT to get up, and I'd be happy to stay where I am. So, I started laying down and imagining, as accurately as possible, how my body feels in that state. That was probably the first major breakthrough in sleeping better. Is there anything at all like that for you?

 

[Chava]

Is there, or has there been, a place or a situation where you were relaxed, comfortable, and at peace

Yes, with my pets. Last night. Still slept 2 or 3 hours.

I just want different meds. That's all. I will refill my Ambien if not. I'm not fixing this today because my body refuses to work with whatever tools I have at the moment. I'm just asking about medications. sorry.