Any experience with a malignant narcissist?

[GammaRay]

There doesn't seem to be a ton of information about malignant narcissism out there. It's a type of narcissism that includes all the traits you'd expect from standard narcissism (profound insecurity, excessive need to admiration, etc.). In addition, malignant narcissists are said to have symptoms of sadism and paranoia as well. Not sadism as in being a jerk and getting off on it. Sadism as in they involuntarily experience legit pleasure, a drug-like high, from being around suffering, whether they directly caused it or not.

I know there is lots of vague, watery information and opinions out there about narcissists, much of it from people who aren't mental health experts. I'm interested in hopefully finding more legitimate info about this particular type of narcissist, or hearing from people who sincerely believe they've dealt with one.

 

[Ecdysis]

I created a thread with useful resources and links regarding the medical definition and treatment of narcissism a while ago... I'll go see if I can find it...

 

[Ecdysis]

Post in thread 'Trying to UNDERSTAND and LEARN from relationship with a narcissist (and not/ no longer spew vitriol about them)' Trying to UNDERSTAND and LEARN from relationship with a narcissist (and not/ no longer spew vitriol about them)


There's a bunch of pretty good (some also scientific links) - some of them also cover malignant narcissism, although the thread overall doesn't...

The first links are more general, the latter ones are more scientific.

 

[Friday]

This is the kind of big bad juju cocktail I've only ever personally seen in war zones & gangland.

 

[GammaRay]

This is the kind of big bad juju cocktail I've only ever personally seen in war zones & gangland.

Not a jolly topic but nonetheless ... LOL.

Do you feel confident that you can diagnose those people? Do they check all the boxes on the diagnostic criteria?

 

[GammaRay]

And what's with the term "malignant?" Is that the most fitting, accurate term? Aren't most Cluster B people malignant? Why is the MN especially malignant?

 

[Friday]

Not a jolly topic but nonetheless ... LOL.

Do you feel confident that you can diagnose those people? Do they check all the boxes on the diagnostic criteria?

I'm not attempting to diagnose anyone. Diagnoses are for helping. The situations I'm talking about are about knowing your players. Ideally before you walk in, but by observation at the very least.

Most seriously big bad criminal organizations have a malignant narcissist on staff. (Very useful on several fronts, but absolutely incredible for morale). Few have more than one, as they're cannibalistic as hell, although it can occasionally happen, under the right circumstances. And a couple few are -at least temporarily- run by one, although that's even more rare (usually a hereditary assumption of power) and doesn't last long. Wait a few months & they'll be replaced... unless mommy/daddy is still alive & retiring, in which case there will be years of slow attrition. A good chunk of leaders DO have those traits PLUS a few other things, which doesn't make them malignant narcissists. But something else, entirely.

As I said, above, my background is purely crime & countries in conflict, where people are very free to be themselves. I have no idea what A malignant narcissist would look like masked in polite society.

And what's with the term "malignant?" Is that the most fitting, accurate term? Aren't most Cluster B people malignant? Why is the MN especially malignant?

No, most cluster B are not malignant. Malignant is an additional identifier (in NPD to include sadism & paranoia; in other disorders qualifiers include other things; like violent & unstable).

Tons of NPD people? Are perfectly lovely. Many of whom go to great lengths to Tetris their personality & morals/ethics & wants/desires into a life/world they don't immediately fit into.

DBT, is a fantastic example of type (the lengths people go to achieve their aims); invented BY a BPD (clusterB) person FOR BPD. Now widely used with other disorders with emotional dysreg, & illogical thinking. (Like PTSD).

 

[Flossy]

My mother.
She found obvious joy in the suffering of others, including her own children and extended family.
She said on many occasions that she finds it "entertaining, like watching Days of Our Lives".
She made such comments after being told of any overwhelmingly serious struggle anyone was having with their life.
Even marriage breakups or serious parent/child dillemmas and arguments.
When my son (her grandson) died from a lung disease at age 20, she called me. Our relationship had been strained for some time.
Her first words to me on the phone were "There is no point me coming down, I can't get around much and would be no use to you".
Implying she was too frail.
The flight would have taken an hour.

I heard a year later that she visited one of her other grandchildren who lived a three hour flight away.
That grandchild was one who she lived vicariously through, finding her life entertaining.
Mine was not so entertaining in a manner that she could live vicariously through.
The favoured one and her sister were given gifts of money in exchange for the ability to feel the excitement for how they lived their lives.
Though one was an IV drug user and used the gifts of money get drunk, live a risky life and inject herself with a dirty needle causing
Sepsis.

If you met my mother you would think of her as a sweet little lady. The television character Mrs Bucket was similar. She was always trying to present herself as special and refined and I feel she believed she did not get the life she envisioned that she was led to believe she deserved as she was so special.

Once at a Christening with a table full of audience, we were all discussing life and hardships she said "I dont feel upset with those things, I think there is something missing in me." I had enough by then and replied "Maybe you are a little retarded Mum". Dead silence. My sister almost spat her drink out with glee at my boldness. She found it great to have me be the truth teller and therefore the problem child. What my mother was missing of course, was the ability to feel empathy.

I downloaded reams of backup evidence and explanations for her later and included DSM diagnostic traits, which she had all off. I sent copies to my brother and sister. I included how I will continue contact with her if she is willing to discontinue her damaging behaviours within the family and that if she did not do so, I will have no further contact with her.

As I am the Scapegoat and my brother and sister are also Narcs, I was demonised. This is when I got my first symptoms of C PTSD. Panic attacks and leg and arm pain so bad I had to crawl up the stairs of my unit. The start of Fibromyalgia, which I still have.


I went No Contact. I stayed that way until her death ten years later. I did not go to her funeral but I went the next day to see the grave. I wanted reassurance that it was real. She was really dead. For at least two years I would get the usual sickening thought of her, then relax when I remember she was dead.

It took about five years to level myself out with the help of this forum to study and others specifically for Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers.
I am also No Contact with my brother and sister (Narcs) who used me as a sexual plaything from the age of four. My brother attempted to have sex with me until the age of 12. At 13, he did his best to pass me around to his mates as a sexual commodity and I remember him having mates who I would somehow find myself alone with, who would then try their luck with me. None succeeded. He also got two of my best friends pregnant and had sex with several of my other friends.

There are also two female grandchildren of my mother who developed BPD. I believe this is due to any Matriarch or Patriarch being a Malignant Narcissist and the damage they do in the immediate and extended family dynamics. With their subterfuge and use of family as their Flying Monkeys.

They are Monsters. I think that knowledge, plus the sexual abuse, lack of safety, bad marriages to two different Narcissists and then the 20 year illness and horrible death of my son is what triggered my C-PTSD.

It's not a bad ending. I can now pick a narcissistic in minutes of meeting them and I feel intense nausea around them listening to them speak.

I hope this provides some insight and helps a little with the kind of info you were looking for. Years later it felt good for me to write it out a bit.

I wish you the best.

 

[GammaRay]

This is when I got my first symptoms of C PTSD. Panic attacks and leg and arm pain so bad I had to crawl up the stairs of my unit. The start of Fibromyalgia, which I still have.

This is interesting. Have any therapists or other healthcare providers you've seen been able to explain how PTSD could cause these physical symptoms?

And thank you so much for taking the time to write that. I hope that expressing it here helps you process and release some of the pain.

 

[Flossy]

No. There is no understanding on what process causes the pain of Fibromyalgia. All they know is that it is somehow related to stress and trauma. There is one theory that it is related to a depletion of Dopamine but that is unproven as yet.

One thing I do know is that the pain goes away for days if I take a Tramadol. Tramadol seems to be seen to increase Serotonin, maybe also Dopamine. I dont remember at the moment.

Yes,It did help to write it out. :)

 

[GammaRay]

@Flossy, did your mother also present paranoid tendencies? This is one of the symptoms of malignant narcissism.

 

[Flossy]

@Flossy, did your mother also present paranoid tendencies? This is one of the symptoms of malignant narcissism.

Yes, she did. And yet no acknowledgement of actual betrayals. EG: my father left for Borneo to serve in the army weeks after their marriage. He had a relationship and a child with a native woman in the 1940's. Somehow my mother knew of this, but it was never discussed or acknowledged.
Also delusions of her life and status were out of control.
She also kept a secret record on her daily calendar of how often myself and my siblings contacted her. I saw it.
I realised this was to gauge our devotion and suitability for her idea of how/whether we deserved her love.