Bad Day In My Marriage

[Abstract]

No need at all Leah. I just recognise the pattern. If this is his nature then you may be in for an uphill battle and what works best is what you have done. Ultimatums and rock solid boundaries as for most this way inclined it is unlikely to come from inside. Excuse my pat assumptions. Many things can be worked through and out and I hope this family dynamic is one of them.

I am relieved you have taken this stance. Reading between the line I am assuming that his behaviour is totally inappropriate towards your daughter. Your have plenty of courage and I have no doubt it will carry you through this.

 

[mamachick]

Leah,
This is certainly a big decision and one that only you can make. I am certain that if you felt there was risk of physical harm to your daughter that you would be gone in a minute. I have been through similar, and it felt like I had another child. I had to tell him most things that needed done-but he would do them and he was a decent provider financially. When there was conflict, I had to coach him and sell him on the reasons for my parenting style. He was inept at parenting as they got older and were more challenging. It is hard if not impossible to feel in love with a man that needs you to be his mother.

Anger management might be a good idea but I think couples counseling is really necessary so that you can both see the roles that you are both playing out. My husband would not go, and we seperated, then they have a relationship with the child outside of your viewing. What we do not resolve in this relationship often surfaces in the next one as well. Im sure that he does not understand that his style makes you feel like you have another 8 yr old, and who can feel romantic and loving with a child man. A third person, therapist, can help address how you are communicating with each other.

You name a lot of good things about the family relationship that you and your daughter would lose if you left him. I hear you sounding a bit exasperated from having to referee and watch his style of discipline that you dont believe in. It can feel overwhelming.

I remember once my husband picking up our daughters when the were 11 and 13 from a parade and he was late because we were not given the updated notice of change in pick up time. The came in the house and my 13 yr old was bawling and was embarrassed because other parents had to stay and they were last to be picked up. I could see that he just needed to wrap his arms around her and validate her. Instead he argued that the band director was incompetent. She cried and whaled more insisting that other parents were mad and so was the band director. This was a common occurance between them. On this day, my mother was dying and I was exhausted. I knew this was the end even though I did not seperate for 2 more years. Oh how I wish that he would have been committed enough to go to counseling with me-but he was not.

Children really need their parents to have a united front and be in agreement about parenting. If you dont get that soon, it will be too late. Then the kids not how to work each parent against one another (married or divorced) and everyone will loose. If your hubby will go to counseling with you , I would jump on it. This is only my opinion from my experience and if not helpful please disregard. You are very smart and strong for thinking this out thoroughly.

 

[Leah123]

I should add that we've been working hard to sort out our parenting differences, both making some compromises. We do use tools to work through our parenting styles, a reward chart we've agreed on, time outs as the primary behavior modification method, etc. So, we've definitely been dealing with that aspect of it, the aspect of finding a shared, productive parenting style, and I'm willing to go to couples counseling, but what I am asking of my husband is extremely difficult for him, to seek help, so I am leaving it to him to have the control over what form that takes.

One of the troubles yesterday was that he misinterpreted my action as being contrary to his wishes and so he got more upset even and it got out of hand eventually, because he *thought* we were on a different page regarding something when we were really not. He needs to learn to do a reality check, communicate better, and manage his emotions.

Blackemerald mentioned ultimatums may backfire, true, and why I have only used them twice in our marriage prior, in the entire 15 years, but... I can not in good conscience tell him I need anything less than 100% commitment to working on his reactions to her. It must change. I have tried for a very long time to do it without ultimatums.

Also, thank you for this:

I am not advocating any type of violence, mental, emotional abuse here, I am just saying this sounds like a solution can be found.

There are several comments I'm thankful for, thank you to everyone for replying, hard to keep up.

I am certain that if you felt there was risk of physical harm to your daughter that you would be gone in a minute.

Yes, he never tries to do her any harm deliberately, but is like a bull in a china shop: he is big and unruly. He MUST do better, because I can't rule out the possibility that he may slip up and she may get seriously hurt, which is why I've made my ultimatum. He knows the truth of these words, I think: when I looked him in the eye, he was tearing up and very somber. He does not want to lose us. Bottom line, he must act like a mature adult with her, he is too big and powerful to react like a child.

Anger management or a parenting course for your husband and you may be another very beneficial thing to contemplate too

Yes, I'm in therapy for this, and now my husband needs to be also. I had been much more involved with their fights, making it worse because I was extremely anxious and triggered. I needed to be able to be more self-aware and separate out my issues from theirs to see the real picture more objectively, and now I've made some progress, it's clear to me he's out of line.

Right now I agree with Abstract, if you feel like it, please let us know how far these fights between father and daughter are going. It's not easy for you to try and arbitrate between too very close relationships, being your's with husband and husband's with daughter.

As for the fights, they have power struggles and she is adept at pressing his buttons. (I am NOT suggesting that as an excuse for his behavior. There is no excuse for our behavior as parents- we are entirely responsible for that.) He simply does not have good enough parenting skills for her, and as Abstract alluded to, I think, he expects more from her than he should from an eight year old. She is gifted, meaning high IQ which comes with a big vocabulary and makes her seem more mature than she is. She's also a challenging child, and he simply doesn't have the tools to work with her constructively, so they yell at each other. In his anger he had occasionally grabbed her roughly, or slammed a door, or push a laptop at her roughly. One that scared me was when he wanted to go in her room, mad, and she was leaning against her door and he barrelled through, shoved the door open and she got hurt. I can't chance that this will continue: she may get seriously hurt sometime, and I can't have her growing up thinking this is at all acceptable. Intimidating, not the way to parent, hence my earlier ultimatum, which needs shoring up. He needs professional help, so that is the path we're on.

 

[nursenurse]

I think, after reading your subsequent posts, that you have been doing positive things for your family, and I am hoping that maybe some family counselling, whether you guys are apart or together would go a great way to promoting some sort of unity as a family. And you have also acknowledged that he needs individual help. I would also suggest some sessions for your daughter on her own as well.

I still think you have every reason to be concerned about the effect of your husband's outbursts. It's just if he isn't seeking out any sort of help, there may come a day where his outburst may escalate to a place you don't want to be.

My daughter was gifted as well, so I understand the power struggles that go on with parenting such a child. They have so much knowledge packed into their heads, but sometimes they do not know how to learn, if you can understand that. It is only within the past few years since she reached her late twenties that she acknowledged that Mom and Dad were right. Some of the time, anyway :D

Hard decisions for you to make, and truly my heart goes out to you and your family.

 

[crazy8]

Prayers for your family.

 

[TeaLeaf]

I'm glad you were able to talk with your husbandLeah and that he seems agreeable to therapy. I think you really handled it well in trying to weigh the good and bad of the relationship and brainstorm how the relationship can be salvaged.

I don't have children but I can relate to how your husband reacts when he's upset. My husband used to have outbursts, yell, argue to win and get mean and rude. The more I started leaving the room and stopping the argument when he was activated , the more appropriate he started to get. Of course I also would approach him after he calmed down to tell him what was not appropriate about his behavior too. Having consequences caused him to have to grow up in order to maintain a relationship with me.

I wish you the best of luck in your relationship and hope that your husband is also able to grow and become a better parent.

 

[DMerish]

Dear Leah,

Once again I am so grateful for this website, where we can describe issues that need to be addressed, receive feedback and get support, and gather strength.

I'm a bit late in responding, but you've gotten a lot of good feed back already. I don't have anything to add other than my strong support for your decision/ultimatum.

Ultimatums are often shabby, not given much forethought. That's why they backfire. But this is not one of those cases: you have definitely pondered the pros and cons. Your husband's commitment, learning better communication and parenting skills, can only increase his (and your) investment in your family's continuance and best welfare for your daughter. Tons of hugs and strength as you navigate the next several weeks and months :hug:

Drew

 

[Leah123]

I could really use a hug or shoulder to cry on. I should be happy, but I'm sad. It's Wednesday. I told my husband this past Saturday he needed to take action by Friday to choose some help. He agreed. I've been waiting, day by day, and he hasn't done anything. I have not nagged him, because it has to be up to him to choose, but today he asked how I was feeling, and well, I just told him, I wasn't feeling great, I was concerned about Friday.

"What's Friday?" he said. :(

I said, well, I'm not going to bother you about it, but do you remember the talk we had Saturday about Friday? "Oh" he said.

The good news is, sort of, I guess he had a melt down at work last week he says, because he came home tonight after that little chat we had on the phone, and pulled a therapist's card out of his wallet: a coworker gave it to him. It's for a family counselor: he thinks the problem is my daughter mostly apparently, and wants us all to go. He hasn't done any research on this, or know anything about the guy, or made any plans- he's just going with this because someone gave him the card.

You know what- I mean, I'm kind of glad for *something* at least, but I feel pathetic: I mean... his whole family is on line and he doesn't even seem to remember it, plus he seems to think my daughter needs to be in the room, and I think while family counseling might be good, it's too early: I need him to work on his anger issues, and I'm totally willing to go to couples counseling, but... I just feel let down somehow. This lack of initiative and responsibility that I perceive is saddening. :( I wish I felt more hopeful. I should be glad...

 

[DMerish]

I'm sorry the outcome this week wasn't what you were expecting or hoping for. It can be frustrating and disappointing when things don't work out quite the way we'd like . . . (((sending many, many hugs Leah)))

I think the fact that your husband opened up to a co-worker who gave him the business card has merit. Hopefully, the family counselor will be a good one. If so, they will be able to look at the dynamics of your family unit as a whole and have insight into each person's strengths, weaknesses, and what needs to be worked on. From there, if it seems more help is required then maybe individual counseling, anger management classes, etc. will be in order.

At the very least (assuming the counselor is decent) the impetus for your husband to continue to work on his issues will come from outside your marriage, and allow you to take a back seat. When I was a kid I had a couple of issues - cutting classes, not doing chores/homework, being smart/sassy and smoking mj. Our family went to a family counselor (which my dad somehow found) to help me . . . After a few sessions, the counselor referred my father to an individual therapist, and we had a few more family counseling sessions, and my father learned some tools. Experiencing his change helped me - everyone benefitted.

:hug:
Drew

 

[crazy8]

@Leah123 - Do you think some gentle praise and encouragement towards your husband could keep him going down this path of engaging in therapy? If he takes a hint that you're upset - after he took his first baby step towards repairing the damage - I wonder if it would discourage him further? You know your husband better than I, but perhaps the difficult road of gentle encouragement will help allow him to make baby steps, one day or week at a time, towards the ideal situation?

Prayers.

 

[Hashi]

Leah, I'm sorry for what you're going through.

I can understand that you don't feel glad. I can't help wondering if he has met the condition you set, although he could still do this. You said here:

He has until Friday to research and choose a therapeutic option to manage his anger and parenting issues. It can be individual counseling, family/parent counseling, support groups, workbooks w/support: it needs to be something he's going to commit to seriously and to which he will devote significant weekly time.

My understanding is that it was not about doing something but about taking a considered, significant step to engage with and address the issue. I can't help thinking that his response doesn't seem to have included research, choosing, or serious commitment. It also doesn't sound like his course of action is a therapeutic option to manage his anger and parenting issues, if he is seeing it mostly as therapy for your daughter rather than for himself.

I don't know how I'd feel if I were you or what decision I'd make, but I have to say I think I'd be questioning whether he has actually done what you asked. I'm sorry to say that, and I realise you might not agree. I feel that there's still time to explain to him again what you are requesting, and why, and for him to do something about it.

It just doesn't sound like he gets it yet. I'm kind of wondering if he will, if you don't bring him back to it.

Edited to add, because I'm worried I haven't been clear what I mean:

I'm not sure I agree that starting off with something else is likely to bring him to the point that's needed. I think it might allow him to not get to that point, by accepting something different. But I do think that reinforcing how you feel/how things are could get him there, which as I understand it is why you're talking to him about this so seriously. That's what I'm trying to say.

I say it from the point of view of having experienced long-term depression myself. My experience of it is that gradual change doesn't really happen. Things need emphasis to break through.

 

[Abstract]

Sending you that hug Leah. It sounds like he has little self awareness or clear sight of others and I am afraid these take time so maybe this realistic. The first steps are happening at least.

He is obviously not seeing his part in this and is deflecting it all onto your daughter. Changing that and getting him to see things himself and others clearly is going to take some time I am guessing. The important part is to keep holding him accountable. Keep that place you set.

Hang in there. One little step at a time. I also just wanted to affirm what you said earlier about first working on yourself before you were able to start fully seeing what was happening with him. I think that is so normal and you should be proud as you have taken many steps towards healing for both you and your family.

:hug: